[Discussion] Would You Take This Today..Yes/No???

[Gollumpus]

10 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

If the Hockey Gawds offered this up today..would you accept it? Non-negotiable..must accept all points:

 

- Canucks finish 29th OA(ensuring good shot at lotto). Hung in(close to wildcard), but finally in Feb injuries wore us down(similar to 2 of Willie's yrs)

- 450+ man games lost to injury!!! Nothing of the brutal sort..worst injuries costing guys 6~8 wks(complete recovery in all cases)

- All NHL skaters on team play to their expected level. No one really regresses. Just too many injuries. Rodin, McEneny & Boeser stick, performing admirably all yr.

- Utica advances to Finals(but lose in 7). Virt has a great season..almost PPG pace. Also 15 very good games with big team(they need him for Utica PO's though)

- We trade Tanev(2018 1st & 2 good prospects); Edler(2019 1st & good prospect); Granlund & 3rd for 2018 1st; 2 of our new FA's for a 2nd & 3rd. Deals between Dec~Feb...

 

we accumulate:

2018: 2 extra 1st's

2019: extra 1st & 2nd R picks

+ 3 more good(v young) prospects

 

************************************: ALL CDN FINAL! ************************************

 

Edm & Ott(to Bettman's chagrin) for all the marbles.

Semis were Edm vs Winn, & Ott vs MTL(again, driving Bettman to drink; unlikely 5 teams make it from Atlantic)

 

Would you accept this today..Yes or No?

 

Or, is it still that attractive if we also know how these proposed deals might work out?:

 

- Tanev returns a 31st OA pick (who perhaps becomes a 3rd or 4th liner in the NHL, or maybe a 6/7 d-man) and a prospect (or two) who aren't really any better (or turn out to be worse) than anything the team already has, and they become borderline NHL players. Tanev plays several more years as one of the best defensive d-men in the NHL.

 

- Granlund returns a 30th OA pick (who perhaps becomes a 3rd or 4th liner in the NHL, or maybe a 6/7 d-man) , while he and the guy taken with the 3rd round pick become stars for their new team.

 

- Edler returns a 31st OA pick (who perhaps becomes a 3rd or 4th liner in the NHL) and a prospect or two who aren't really any better, or turn out to be worse, than anything the team already has, and they become borderline NHL players.

 

However, the Hockey Gods could change that Edler 31 OA to a 1st OA if anyone can provide a reasonable and realistic a reason or two why Edler elects to waive his NTC...? 

 

                                                                   regards,  G.

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 minute ago, Crabcakes said:

Agree.  A rebuild should be forever.  If a GM can get to the point where they're contending and not ignoring the future, that is ideal.  In this way, we shouldn't see the rapid decline that the Canucks have.  Not to mention the salary cap gets in the way and good players may have to be moved before the core peaks.

 

I honestly think that the benefits of raising the draft age outweigh having 1 or 2 really bad drafts in a row.

I am ok with that CC, but hope its a couple of years away.......I could be proven wrong on that though.

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

 

Or, is it still that attractive if we also know how these proposed deals might work out?:

 

- Tanev returns a 31st OA pick (who perhaps becomes a 3rd or 4th liner in the NHL, or maybe a 6/7 d-man) and a prospect (or two) who aren't really any better (or turn out to be worse) than anything the team already has, and they become borderline NHL players. Tanev plays several more years as one of the best defensive d-men in the NHL.

 

- Granlund returns a 30th OA pick (who perhaps becomes a 3rd or 4th liner in the NHL, or maybe a 6/7 d-man) , while he and the guy taken with the 3rd round pick become stars for their new team.

 

- Edler returns a 31st OA pick (who perhaps becomes a 3rd or 4th liner in the NHL) and a prospect or two who aren't really any better, or turn out to be worse, than anything the team already has, and they become borderline NHL players.

 

However, the Hockey Gods could change that Edler 31 OA to a 1st OA if anyone can provide reasonable and realistic a reason or two why Edler elects to waive his NTC...? 

 

                                                                   regards,  G.

 

Good point G

 

There is always that! .......let's make sure we spread it out to different teams.......hopefully that is thought about prior to any trades.......but is always a risk, no doubt.......there is away a chance of an LA or Ottawa.......I think the return on Tanev would really make me sick if that happened....the others, I am willing to shake the dice on....with an educated "GUESS".....lol

[Crabcakes]

3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

CC

 

Other than Edler(older) and Tanev(younger).........all the "key" players have pressure from below and could be pushed out, which is exactly what you want......but those players are replaceable....and will have to be moved (hopefully) as better players emerge........admittedly, the key is to know when! Aka value/development/cost etc......

 

I am not too worried about Edler being moved......Tanev, I am Luke cold on moving, as we had little RHD depth, but we will see......doubt its this year anyways

The Sedins aren't getting pushed out.  That's why Benning has brought in centres like Sutter, Gagner (and a shot in the dark Burmistrov) to ease the transition in case they retire sooner than later.  

 

Same on D.  Who is pushing the top pair?  Juolevi is 2 years away at least.  Fortunately, they don't need transition players on D for the top end.  Del Zotto is there until Juolevi cracks the line up imo

[TimberWolf]

9 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

There's no such thing as "hockey gods" so my answer is no.

[stawns]

35 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Agree.  A rebuild should be forever.  If a GM can get to the point where they're contending and not ignoring the future, that is ideal.  In this way, we shouldn't see the rapid decline that the Canucks have.  Not to mention the salary cap gets in the way and good players may have to be moved before the core peaks.

 

I honestly think that the benefits of raising the draft age outweigh having 1 or 2 really bad drafts in a row.

Honestly, a 20 year old draft, to me, is the ideal.  Everyone wins from minor hockey to JR to minors to NHL

[Jack Fig]

Sure, sounds like fun. 

[Chris12345]

If it's not Vancouver or the Leafs in the final I don't care so sure.

[Warhippy]

If we're out of the playoffs by the end of January

 

Burmistrov

Edler

Tanev

Rodin

Dorsett

Vanek

 

All gone IMO

[Baer.]

Why do people still think Rodin is good?

[Baer.]

13 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

If we're out of the playoffs by the end of January

 

Burmistrov

Edler

Tanev

Rodin

Dorsett

Vanek

 

All gone IMO

Moving Tanev seems like a backwards step. He's only 27. Plus his NTC kicks in this year. I'd just keep him, personally.

[BCNate]

11 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

If the Hockey Gawds offered this up today..would you accept it? Non-negotiable..must accept all points:

 

- Canucks finish 29th OA(ensuring good shot at lotto). Hung in(close to wildcard), but finally in Feb injuries wore us down(similar to 2 of Willie's yrs)

- 450+ man games lost to injury!!! Nothing of the brutal sort..worst injuries costing guys 6~8 wks(complete recovery in all cases)

- All NHL skaters on team play to their expected level. No one really regresses. Just too many injuries. Rodin, McEneny & Boeser stick, performing admirably all yr.

- Utica advances to Finals(but lose in 7). Virt has a great season..almost PPG pace. Also 15 very good games with big team(they need him for Utica PO's though)

- We trade Tanev(2018 1st & 2 good prospects); Edler(2019 1st & good prospect); Granlund & 3rd for 2018 1st; 2 of our new FA's for a 2nd & 3rd. Deals between Dec~Feb...

 

we accumulate:

2018: 2 extra 1st's

2019: extra 1st & 2nd R picks

+ 3 more good(v young) prospects

 

************************************: ALL CDN FINAL! ************************************

 

Edm & Ott(to Bettman's chagrin) for all the marbles.

Semis were Edm vs Winn, & Ott vs MTL(again, driving Bettman to drink; unlikely 5 teams make it from Atlantic)

 

Would you accept this today..Yes or No?

So you are suggesting:

-Top 6 pick at worst

-Everything goes well aside from injuries, and we are competitive until Feb

-Utica excels with our prospects and go on a long playoff run

-Boesser, Rodin, McEneny perform well

-Virt becomes a legit prospect

-We get 2 more picks in a stacked first round

-3 more picks in the first 2 rounds next year

-3 more quality prospects

 

I think it would be crazy to not consider that a huge success.  We would be in a position to add next summer and contend for a playoff spot in 2019, with a top 5 prospect pool still to come. I would absolutely take this.

[BCNate]

24 minutes ago, Baer. said:

Why do people still think Rodin is good?

He was one of our best players in camp last year, while playing with an injury that knocked him out for the whole year.  He was the MVP of the Swedish elite league the year before that.  He may not pan out, but I would not write him off as of yet.  Rodin and Holm are the two players I am most interested in seeing during camp.

[BCNate]

43 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

If we're out of the playoffs by the end of January

 

Burmistrov

Edler

Tanev

Rodin

Dorsett

Vanek

 

All gone IMO

I think a few things have to happen before a Tanev trade:

-Gudbranson proves himself a a Beast on D, and signs long term

-Joulevi plays in Europe and excels in a mens league

-Hutton and Stecher take significant strides foward.

If these don't happen, trading Tanev creates more problems than it solves.  

[Baer.]

9 minutes ago, BCNate said:

He was one of our best players in camp last year, while playing with an injury that knocked him out for the whole year.  He was the MVP of the Swedish elite league the year before that.  He may not pan out, but I would not write him off as of yet.  Rodin and Holm are the two players I am most interested in seeing during camp.

So he was good in training camp and a league that is the equivalent of the AHL. Still not very impressive.

[BCNate]

3 minutes ago, Baer. said:

So he was good in training camp and a league that is the equivalent of the AHL. Still not very impressive.

I'll be honest, outside of the exhibition games he played well in last year, and SEL highights, I have not seen him play much.  I would assume you are probably the same.  He may not work out, but will be given a good look in a top 9 role in the pre season.  I'm excited to see how he does.

[coastal.view]

the draft pick accumulation is such a reach

it discredits the entire post

why not throw in winning a power ball lottery too

and that world poverty and starvation is resolved

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, BCNate said:

So you are suggesting:

-Top 6 pick at worst

-Everything goes well aside from injuries, and we are competitive until Feb

-Utica excels with our prospects and go on a long playoff run

-Boesser, Rodin, McEneny perform well

-Virt becomes a legit prospect

-We get 2 more picks in a stacked first round

-3 more picks in the first 2 rounds next year

-3 more quality prospects

 

I think it would be crazy to not consider that a huge success.  We would be in a position to add next summer and contend for a playoff spot in 2019, with a top 5 prospect pool still to come. I would absolutely take this.

Thanks for this. Your reply is interesting to me. I've been thinking(esp with this thread) of the psychology of the fanbase, & how we look at these things. Probably further complicated when comparing an individual fan-analysis, vs the rabid, cheering(or jeering) group-think.

 

Basically I suggested many things that have happened in recent yrs, yet amassed them all into one season. In that sense, it's all conceivable, yet unlikely to happen within such a condensed time-frame. I anticipated most respondents would avoid the Y/N option..western thought doesn't like narrow options. Whereas, if I polled hundreds of Japanese with 2 options on say, the fortunes about their fav baseball team, I bet about 80% of repliers would honour the Y/N query!(we westerners are raised to argue :^)

 

As sporting fans, we mostly adjust our hopes/expectations to fit within the parameters, to justify things that have already occurred. Ergo, if in April you ask a Canuck-backer to explain what all happened(from Oct '16 to Spring), they'd probably excitedly give you a positive spin on the necessity of the lousy season that just elapsed. Focusing instead on the lotto chance, Dahlen, Goldy acquisitions, etc...

 

However, if you laid that all out(with Y/N acceptance-option) in Sept '16, as I've done here..many folks might be flinging substances, calling me a witch, etc..., as I've been partly criticized, with this thread.

 

Which sort of begs the question of the sports fan..particularly one enduring the process of a rebuilding fav team. Is it wise/advisable, to precondition oneself with lowered expectations? Does that make one a worse fan? Can you make it enjoyable by forecasting events/occurrences, besides simply where they finish? Should 'armchair-GM's' be burned at the stake?!

 

Like sands thru the hourglass, THESE are the threads of our lives...

[J.I.A.H.N]

5 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

The Sedins aren't getting pushed out.  That's why Benning has brought in centres like Sutter, Gagner (and a shot in the dark Burmistrov) to ease the transition in case they retire sooner than later.  

 

Same on D.  Who is pushing the top pair?  Juolevi is 2 years away at least.  Fortunately, they don't need transition players on D for the top end.  Del Zotto is there until Juolevi cracks the line up imo

I understand why you mentioned the Sedins........But I didn't........they are just not going any where......so although I said vet's , I honestly wasn't including them

[JM_]

No. I don't understand why Utica deserves heartbreak.