BC has officially become a Banana Republic

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

The committee would not in any way run the government. They would simply be a check and balance against the government doing what they do, since they can't be trusted to act in the public's best interest.

It's a double standard of accountability, and it needs to change. The government is not above the common person, although holding a much higher degree of responsibility. They would do well to remember that.

Thats what the Auditor General does. 

 

I agree on more tools for accountability, but like I said above I'm not sure how many people in BC even realize that you can mobilize the recall of an MLA if enough people in a riding want to. We could move to a system e.g., similar to the US that say elects 1/2 the house every 2 years instead of 4 but then we'd be in a constant election cycle and that brings its own issues. 

 

The main issue is too many people tend to pay attention every 4 years and then its really only about 10% of the voting public that is willing to switch parties sways the result. People need to get more active and until that happens not much will change. 

[VanGnome]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

So... going for respectful debate here so please take this in that light. 

 

Please explain what is inherently wrong with government and industry working together? Government does not have the resources to oversee everything a business does, nor should it. Not everything is pure "greed and collusion" companies are there to make money, your pension depends on it e.g. 

 

We do not need more committees. Effective regulation and auditing is far more effective than committees that meet a few times a year (maybe) with people that don't have an on-the-ground understanding of a particular industry. 

 

We actually have far more influence in BC than many people realize. We are the only province with an MLA recall procedure e.g. We do not need more legislation, we need people to pay more attention and use the tools at hand already. 

 

I think this story is a good example of the faux conflict that runs through the left circles on government "vs" industry. It really isn't that way at all, nor should it be. By law public companies have to maximize shareholder value, and having a good working relationship with local governments is part of that, its not some back room evil collusion thing. What possible relevance could come from consulting the "general public" over industry-specific issues that the general public may have no idea about? 

 

 

 

It's not so much a problem that government and industry working together, at least not inherently. Where it becomes a problem in my eyes is when you factor in human nature, the level of entitlement seemingly held by many members of any governmental level, and the level of entitlement seemingly held by a great number of high level executives in industry corporations.

When you mix that into a bag, is when you get milestones, guidelines, tweaks to legislation and just in general favourable deals which greatly benefit industry, but is rarely handed down to the public altruistically. You also get the secret meetings, back room collusion (Harper and the CPP for example) and all around raw deals for the common citizen, all in the name of moving the province, or country "forward".

Here's a hypothetical question back at you, if our elected officials had openly and transparently communicated their intentions with these industry leaders, would the outcome have been the same? It's highly unlikely. CC, proving the type of person she is did this as a means to elevate her standing and importance (self serving), and scratched the back of the industry pals who made it happen (collusion).

The cycle of history has an interesting way of repeating itself.

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

It's not so much a problem that government and industry working together, at least not inherently. Where it becomes a problem in my eyes is when you factor in human nature, the level of entitlement seemingly held by many members of any governmental level, and the level of entitlement seemingly held by a great number of high level executives in industry corporations.

When you mix that into a bag, is when you get milestones, guidelines, tweaks to legislation and just in general favourable deals which greatly benefit industry, but is rarely handed down to the public altruistically. You also get the secret meetings, back room collusion (Harper and the CPP for example) and all around raw deals for the common citizen, all in the name of moving the province, or country "forward".

Here's a hypothetical question back at you, if our elected officials had openly and transparently communicated their intentions with these industry leaders, would the outcome have been the same? It's highly unlikely. CC, proving the type of person she is did this as a means to elevate her standing and importance (self serving), and scratched the back of the industry pals who made it happen (collusion).

The cycle of history has an interesting way of repeating itself.

The business exec's are actually under much more pressure to perform and can be removed a lot easier than an MLA actually. 

 

I'm not swayed by the Tyee reporting on a 'secret meeting' I think thats a bit sensationalist. Meetings happen every day between gov't and industry that are not public record in terms of the specific details but you can find out who met with who via FOI legislation.

 

I don't think it was a secret that CC was pro-oil and gas. So no I don't think in the case of the last election it would have mattered, maybe it would have given the Greens a little boost? 

 

To me this would be a story if we found out e.g., that CC got some kind of kickback or something along those lines, but consulting with the oil and gas guys on a carbon target, thats the kind of thing I'd expect. 

 

Again its back to us. Take the MLA that became speaker. If I were a Liberal voter in that riding, I'd be pretty annoyed, but will anyone in that riding step up and start the recall procedure? They can, nothing can stop it if enough people in that riding care. If they did get a successful recall that would send a pretty strong signal to the rest of the MLAs that they had better not do things like that that clearly have a self-serving element to it. But if no one steps up in that riding, well why not act that way as an MLA if no one is going to care?

 

 

 

 

[ice orca]

59 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

The committee would not in any way run the government. They would simply be a check and balance against the government doing what they do, since they can't be trusted to act in the public's best interest.

Basically, it was just an example of how we as the general public can have more influence beside just voting which seems to have lost its impact, to ensure better transparency and openness about the government. Secret meetings, handshake deals, favourable legislation for industry is all bad for the general public who trust the government and for the most part pay their taxes in good faith.

The problem though, is when the government on the other hand does not uphold its promises, or maliciously does something underhanded, there are no repercussions to be had, and if there are, no where near the full weight of what they should be under the law. Do you think the little guy who refuses to pay tax, or anything else of that nature out of principle is let off easy?

It's a double standard of accountability, and it needs to change. The government is not above the common person, although holding a much higher degree of responsibility. They would do well to remember that.

Who decides on the committee members? I can see a massive bottle neck with every special interest group and industry leaders trying to get one of their guys on the committee. The infighting would take forever to get anything done.

 

[VanGnome]

Just now, ice orca said:

Who decides on the committee members? I can see a massive bottle neck with every special interest group and industry leaders trying to get one of their guys on the committee. The infighting would take forever to get anything done.

 

Random selection based on voter registration, similar to how being selected for jury duty is performed

[cdubuya]

13 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Mainstream media / journalists  in BC have  sold out each and every citizen of this province.....

 

You have to seek out truth where ever you can in BC.  

 

you must be a marxist if you think mainstream media in BC / Canada is right wing...

[taxi]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

I read over this.

 

Optically it's bad.  Allowing energy producers to dictate climate change policy

 

Except....they didn't.  They were there to refine the language and to help ensure that the resource economy was still functioning and viable and that the plan included language that allowed for continued development WHILE pairing down emissions and moving towards a greener energy infrastructure.

 

At no point did they dictate policy as per the NDP's report, the ombudsman in charge nor the energy commission itself.

 

Honestly.  Aside from keeping ti under wraps and not telling anyone it is only common sense that you include those most at fault for Greenhouse Gas emissions in any climate plan or agreement.  Even if it is just to help refine the language in the terms themself

 

Would be like holding CBA talks but not including the players

Great post.

To add to this, you would have to be very naive to assume that on the international scale things are just about climate change. If you look at the international schemes each country essentially tries to shift the burden to everyone else. Unfortunately if you're not "playing the game" you're going to end up getting f-ed. 

[canuckfromlangley]

If this is all no big deal. Why was it held in secret out of province?

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

Random selection based on voter registration, similar to how being selected for jury duty is performed

I understand the feeling/need for more oversight, but a collection of random citizens? Not sure thats a step up tbh. Also, what teeth would this committee have? Jurors clearly have some power, so would this random selection also have punitive powers of some kind? a true random sample would also give us the same results as what we got in the election, so we may end up with gridlock on that committee too! 

 

I think we could achieve some of what you're looking for with things like online voting, including online recall procedures. IMO 2 main things have led to the political situation we are in, too much money, and too much voter apathy. Once Horgan runs out of golf tournaments we should see some reform on the $ side but voter apathy is still a big problem. We need to push for online voting and recall. 

[gerry35]

21 hours ago, Violator said:

Tyee is paid by big american oil.Then given to tyee through the tides foundation.

 

http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/ten-reasons-to-inquire-re-tcf.html

Kind of funny some people just gloss over this (not really actually) ever ask yourself why you never hear anything from these "environmental" groups about Alaskan oil heading south through the so called great bear rain forest but oil from B.C. and Alberta is attacked mercilessly and is somehow evil.

 

More than 850 per year according to this link

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/letters/oil-tankers-operate-safely-in-b-c-waters-1.774443

 

Kind of funny as well that oil from Saudi Arabia is considered much better than Canadian oil even though they are one of the major funders of terrorism in the world and treat their people terribly. 

http://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/as-politicians-gloat-about-climate-leadership-saudi-arabias-oil-is-dumped-in-canada

 

 

Living up in near the North Coast I have seen the hypocrisy of these environmental groups and guys like Suzuki for years now, now with the internet it gets a lot harder for these people to hide even though the media tries to cover for them. Now in effect, American oil has major influence in both the government's of B.C. and Alberta through the so called environmental movement. I'll bet most of those who voted for the NDP had no idea what they were actually voting for.

 

[gerry35]

23 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Info now just becoming public.

 

Pretty depressing to read about it after the summer of Fires we just had.....   

Makes BC look like a joke of a province. 

I'm curious, what do you do for a living? I'm in construction in case you ask............

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, gerry35 said:

 

Living up in near the North Coast I have seen the hypocrisy of these environmental groups and guys like Suzuki for years now, now with the internet it gets a lot harder for these people to hide even though the media tries to cover for them. Now in effect, American oil has major influence in both the government's of B.C. and Alberta through the so called environmental movement. I'll bet most of those who voted for the NDP had no idea what they were actually voting for.

 

Living in the North Coast ....  do you have any concerns with Salmon returns the last few years..... ?   Do you think it is coincidence that numerous BC Salmon runs are facing extinction ?

 

Does this concern you ? 

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, gerry35 said:

I'm curious, what do you do for a living? I'm in construction in case you ask............

If i am a Red Seal Boilermaker ,  B ticket welder, HVAC apprentice or level 3 ITA Carpentry Apprentice....   what difference does it make...?

I love my local rivers and streams. Love my province.  Born and raised in BC.    

 

 

[gerry35]

2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Living in the North Coast ....  do you have any concerns with Salmon returns the last few years..... ?   Do you think it is coincidence that numerous BC Salmon runs are facing extinction ?

 

Does this concern you ? 

Yes it does, overfishing for years and no plan to change things by the DFO other than dividing our native friends from the rest us with based on race based fishing. Has nothing to do with oil and gas. A little over dramatic about salmon extinction, things are far from there, steelhead and coho were doing poorly in the 80's and 90's but have come back very strong here so it can be done. Sockeye was an off year but that happens from time to time, there should be more hatcheries for chinook in particular. Things would be much better if DFO was axed and all local residents came up with solutions.

[189lb enforcers?]

On 2017-09-18 at 9:05 PM, Nucksfollower1983 said:

are you surprised? i'm not a fan of any political party, if you ask me they are all crooks. But the B.C. liberals seriously sold out the people of this province in many ways that we will discover soon enough. The worst if you ask me is not doing anything to stop foreigners from buying up lower mainland real estate making home ownership much more difficult for actual citizens of this province. They did nothing about it because they were all profiting, Mike deJong in particular. These rat bastards happily sold us out to make themselves rich.

Agreed, not surprised. 

This forum is rife with the shoe-staring posters of Vancouver and area. Very few even know where lumber even comes from. Who gives a puck about Vancouver's stupidly overpriced realty? Nobody outside of Vancouver.

non-issue for many of the rest of the voters in BC. 

 

The whores in politics are the same no matter the sticker on the door. This is a maxim. The overspending continues and the new super parasite government has a budget plan to put me further in debt, especially our kids. I wish I could sue or charge these pension collecting fraudsters. Banana Repulsive. 

[gerry35]

2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

If i am a Red Seal Boilermaker ,  B ticket welder, HVAC apprentice or level 3 ITA Carpentry Apprentice....   what difference does it make...?

I love my local rivers and streams. Love my province.  Born and raised in BC.    

 

 

I ask because you loudly proclaim on this site how wonderful the NDP are, they sure haven't done us any favours. Basically Vancouver/Victoria only cares about themselves and screws the rest of us over. Feel free to save the rivers in Surrey and let us worry about our rivers up here.

 

And again do you like that American oil is funding the environmental movement here? Why do you think they have such an interest to shut industry out of B.C. Does this bother you?

[189lb enforcers?]

32 minutes ago, gerry35 said:

Yes it does, overfishing for years and no plan to change things by the DFO other than dividing our native friends from the rest us with based on race based fishing. Has nothing to do with oil and gas. A little over dramatic about salmon extinction, things are far from there, steelhead and coho were doing poorly in the 80's and 90's but have come back very strong here so it can be done. Sockeye was an off year but that happens from time to time, there should be more hatcheries for chinook in particular. Things would be much better if DFO was axed and all local residents came up with solutions.

There is a "Native" fishery on Kamloops Lake for sockeye. They use a god damn troller! On a skinny lake! Muh Culture. Race based fishing rights? Wonder where all the salmon went. I can tell you the reject pile of "red ones" were dumped on the bank last year. Not one or two. Like one or two hundred or more. I doubt most folks really know what goes on in the world outside of Starbucks. 

The science behind this stuff, especially steelhead is laughable. Ask the hatcheries. The numbers don't jive. I could go on and on, but it's bound to just go over heads because it doesn't contain the standard zombie-food Trump memes, points etc. 

 

Salmon numbers are changing. They likey always have and will.

So? 99% of all life to have ever existed on earth is already extinct. Humans fancy themselves as Greek Gods far too often. We too, are one meteor away from being out of the 1% club. In the meantime, all together now, zombies, " He will not divide us". Politics has become what it deserves to be. Sorry KOS, you're telling us nothing we didn't already know about politics. BC is just as bad as it ever was or anyone else for that matter. 

[189lb enforcers?]

11 hours ago, gerry35 said:

Kind of funny some people just gloss over this (not really actually) ever ask yourself why you never hear anything from these "environmental" groups about Alaskan oil heading south through the so called great bear rain forest but oil from B.C. and Alberta is attacked mercilessly and is somehow evil.

 

More than 850 per year according to this link

 

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/letters/oil-tankers-operate-safely-in-b-c-waters-1.774443

 

Kind of funny as well that oil from Saudi Arabia is considered much better than Canadian oil even though they are one of the major funders of terrorism in the world and treat their people terribly. 

http://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/as-politicians-gloat-about-climate-leadership-saudi-arabias-oil-is-dumped-in-canada

 

 

Living up in near the North Coast I have seen the hypocrisy of these environmental groups and guys like Suzuki for years now, now with the internet it gets a lot harder for these people to hide even though the media tries to cover for them. Now in effect, American oil has major influence in both the government's of B.C. and Alberta through the so called environmental movement. I'll bet most of those who voted for the NDP had no idea what they were actually voting for.

 

Absolutely. And guaranteed they weren't around or effected by the last NDP parasite infestation. They just wanted change for the sake of it. These are folks who believe windmills, hospitals, schools and electric cars come from the community gardens of some Hippy community in the hills. 

[kingofsurrey]

15 hours ago, gerry35 said:

I ask because you loudly proclaim on this site how wonderful the NDP are, they sure haven't done us any favours.

I rarely praise the NDP.  Its been 16 yrs since they have in power...  Hard to say how they will do.

 

I do criticize the BC Liberals regularly though. Just tired of seeing dirty off shore corrupt money ruining our province......  

 

We live in one of the best  places in the world and it is just a shame seeing what has happened to this province the last 10 years . 

[Warhippy]

19 hours ago, gerry35 said:

I ask because you loudly proclaim on this site how wonderful the NDP are, they sure haven't done us any favours. Basically Vancouver/Victoria only cares about themselves and screws the rest of us over. Feel free to save the rivers in Surrey and let us worry about our rivers up here.

 

And again do you like that American oil is funding the environmental movement here? Why do you think they have such an interest to shut industry out of B.C. Does this bother you?

Just want to know exactly where the other management group did otherwise.

 

If you could point that out I'd be greatly appreciative