JamesB

Officiating Changes and the Canucks

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I think the new teaks to officiating hurt the Canucks more than any other team tbh.  Why couldn't they do this in 2011 when this team was literally skating circles around the rest of the league?  Oh yeah, I forgot about the curse.

 

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15 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Won't be relevant until the NHL forces the refs to actually call the game professionally.  When Kelly Sutherland is allowed to blatantly rig games with zero consequences, any rule changes simply don't effect us as the refs have made it clear that they will not respect the rule book when they're assigned our games.

Dont know if you have talked with the same people I have but you are bang on... A lot of talk about the NHL being against the nucks in '11 when the truth is it was a beef between a ref and one particular person. A reason a certain other team will not win the cup now until said ref, or that person is gone. 

Edited by Ronaldoescobar

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On 9/21/2017 at 6:57 PM, DSVII said:

Call me skeptical but I wonder just how strictly the league maintains this stance in playoffs

 

On 9/21/2017 at 10:03 PM, -AJ- said:

I constantly find that your analysis of the game is well founded and enjoy reading your perspectives. I agree with your assessment. I believe we will see a significant spike in penalty minutes this year due to slashing calls, but they'll start to drop off by the season's end and as well into next season, assuming the refs are consistent, like they were back in the first post-lockout seasons.

 

On 9/21/2017 at 10:50 PM, Green Building said:

Call me skeptical, but I'll reserve judgement of the seasons refereeing until at least 1/3 of the way through the regular season. If they did implement it across the board that would be the biggest leaf turned over since, I don't even know when. But huge. 

Thanks for the comments. Tonight (Friday night) in the dead zone on Sportsnet 650 between the post-game show for Oilers game and the pre-game show for the Kings game I heard an interview with Steven Walkom, the head of officiating for the NHL.  Listening to him did not fill me with confidence about refereeing but he made some interesting points about the new policy on slashing infractions.

 

First, he said that that there had been a big increase in slashing since the NHL cracked down on hooking starting in 2005-06. He pointed out that slashing was an alternative way of impeding a puck-carrier who is pulling away. He also said that he felt it was a tactic that was being coached in and was happening all the time. The problem with slashing is that it is more likely to result in injury than hooking or holding. He added that pretty much everyone agreed that it should be taken out of the game -- players, coaches, GMs, the League office, etc.

 

He was asked about consistency over time and he acknowledged that calls would probably decline as refs might now be "overzealous". I agree with @Green Building and @DSVII that there are two key timing points. First, will they continue to be strict once we are past the first part of the season and second, what about the playoffs. The officiating standard has always been different in the playoffs, so it is hard to see that changing. I hope that the referees remain reasonably consistent through at least through  the regular season. For some reason it really bothers me to see guys getting injured from slashes to the hand and of course it is also nice to able to see players make good plays without being impeded by slashing and hacking.

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18 minutes ago, JamesB said:

First, he said that that there had been a big increase in slashing since the NHL cracked down on hooking starting in 2005-06. He pointed out that slashing was an alternative way of impeding a puck-carrier who is pulling away. He also said that he felt it was a tactic that was being coached in and was happening all the time. The problem with slashing is that it is more likely to result in injury than hooking or holding. He added that pretty much everyone agreed that it should be taken out of the game -- players, coaches, GMs, the League office, etc.

 

He was asked about consistency over time and he acknowledged that calls would probably decline as refs might now be "overzealous". I agree with @Green Building and @DSVII that there are two key timing points. First, will they continue to be strict once we are past the first part of the season and second, what about the playoffs. The officiating standard has always been different in the playoffs, so it is hard to see that changing. I hope that the referees remain reasonably consistent through at least through  the regular season. For some reason it really bothers me to see guys getting injured from slashes to the hand and of course it is also nice to able to see players make good plays without being impeded by slashing and hacking.

The fact slashing is up doesn't surprise me at all. If you can't hook, but you can slash then of course that's what you'll do. As long as it isn't called you may as well slash harder harder in an attempt to force a turnover or something. I don't have a problem with them cracking down on it, my issue is the grey are that defines what a penalty is or isn't. It's going to be frustrating for everybody while the refs settle in to their groove of what penalties they call versus not call, and even more frustrating if only 3/8 of the same slashes are called over the course of a single game so that they don't run up the special teams count. The potential inconsistency is already driving me nuts. 

 

I like to give the league/refs the benefit of the doubt, but I've been watching hockey for over 30 years so I know better by now. In fairness, the zero tolerance on hooking and holding didn't take too long for the players to adapt to. We'll soon see how each side plays this moving forward. I'm prepared to see 15 PP in a couple games for the slow learners out there. It will be brutal hockey to watch, but could be better in the long run if they stick with it.

 

Playoffs though, yeah, everything back to normal again. It's silly.

 

 

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On 9/21/2017 at 6:57 PM, DSVII said:

Call me skeptical but I wonder just how strictly the league maintains this stance in playoffs

One of my biggest pet peeves of all time. It's always annoyed me that rules in regular season suddenly go out the window in the playoffs. Did the rule book suddenly change? I also completely disagree with refs making calls at their discretion. The rules are the rules. Make the players play by the rules. Some will argue you don't want the refs deciding a game but if refs are free to pick and choose what they call they're in a far greater position to decide a game. If you call everything it's purely on the player for violating the rules. I've never seen them not call an offside in football because it was a close game or a key 3rd down.

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3 hours ago, Baggins said:

One of my biggest pet peeves of all time. It's always annoyed me that rules in regular season suddenly go out the window in the playoffs. 

Agreed.

 

3 hours ago, Baggins said:

 I also completely disagree with refs making calls at their discretion. The rules are the rules. Make the players play by the rules. Some will argue you don't want the refs deciding a game but if refs are free to pick and choose what they call they're in a far greater position to decide a game. If you call everything it's purely on the player for violating the rules.

For the most part, I agree with this. A penalty is a penalty is a penalty, but if there is no leeway then you can wind up a whistle being blown every 10 seconds (or less) because someone slashed, hooked or grabbed someone else just enough to be noticed but not enough to seriously impede the opposing player. 

 

These kind of non-calls are different from the roughing calls etc which are ignored by officials in the playoffs (unless the ref feels that he doesn't want a brawl to break out ie. practicing game management). 

 

3 hours ago, Baggins said:

I've never seen them not call an offside in football because it was a close game or a key 3rd down.

I have a recollection of many "missed" calls in the NFL, which is much different from the "interpretation" of the rules by NHL officials. A thing that I will point out, and this is something which I have heard in more than one season, from more than one source, is that a holding call could (likely) be made on each and every single down, and isn't because of the detrimental effect if would have on the game (ie. slowing it down).

 

                                                 regards,  G.

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On 9/23/2017 at 11:45 AM, mll said:

 

 

 

This is what I hate about the NHL

 

Either it's a penalty or it's not. Leaving it open to ref interpretation just confuses players and makes everything look corrupt. 

Edited by TimberWolf
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1 hour ago, TimberWolf said:

 

 

This is what I hate about the NHL

 

Either it's a penalty or it's not. Leaving it open to ref interpretation just confuses players and makes everything look corrupt. 

Ya....what did they think was going to happen? I'd like to think the term "dial it back" wasn't actually used. Either it's a penalty or it isn't. 

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Head office at league level is confusing, sending a mixed message on what is a penalty and what is not.  They are afraid of losing some flow by calling too many slashing penalty or faceoff violation penalty.  They lacked guts to actually call the game as it is supposed to be called and not letting them play but letting them play according to the rule book.  If they cheat, call penalties for cheating on any violation, whether it be slashing, hooking, holding, and if anyone does them, that's cheating and by letting them go, it's still cheating and advantage goes to the team that cheats the most.   Letting them play is still cheating in my book.   Ref has a job to do, prevent the cheating by both teams and call them as it is being called fairly. 

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On 9/25/2017 at 0:03 PM, TimberWolf said:

 

 

This is what I hate about the NHL

 

Either it's a penalty or it's not. Leaving it open to ref interpretation just confuses players and makes everything look corrupt. 

Not to mention confuses the refs.

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