Rise of far right in Europe

[Toews]

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

I agree there are morons in my country, just like any other country.

What I wonder is why people that  live in Canada, are so obsessed with the morons in another country.

Germany thing is concerning, but since it doesn't involve Trump i know it doesn't have your attention.

This is hypocritical of you. You claim to be concerned with what is occurring in Germany. I also feel concern over what is occurring currently in the US. My point with that post was to say that while recently fringe parties are becoming more popular in Germany, it still pales in terms of numbers to most other countries. Inevitably Germany was always going shift towards the right as their history becomes less and less relevant to today's voters. Is it concerning to me? I am not entirely sure, perhaps a German would be able to better address that question. I doubt we are going to see an reincarnation of the Austrian painter any time soon, people can be shortsighted but not that shortsighted.

[Warhippy]

20 hours ago, Lateralus91 said:

Never been to Munich myself so far. Berlin is exciting for the first couple of times because of the history, but from an aesthetic standpoint there are better cities to visit than Berlin imho. Hamburg, Cologne and the wine areas along the rivers Rhine and Moselle are worth a visit as well.

 

No. Latest polls from yesterday:

CDU 35%

SPD 22%

AfD 11%

Left 10%

FDP 9%

Green Party 8%

 

The only question will be what the government coalition will look like. The only real options are FDP (liberal) and SPD (social democrats). They CDU would rather have a coalition with the FDP, but it's questionable if CDU + FDP would reach the neccessary majority of seats. Most likely it will be another so called "Great Coalition" of CDU + SPD. 

That might play into the hands of the smaller parties because those parties are still very similar in their programmes and people are seeking more variety (whether left or right) in politics at the moment. You can see that in the polls if you compare them to the last election results from 2013:

 

CDU 41.4%

SPD 25.7 %

Left 8.6%

Green Party 8.4%

FDP 4.8%

AfD 4.7%

 

So I doubt Merkel will be in trouble. Maybe come next election, if there will be another "Great Coalition". But still, I doubt there will be enough voters "migrating" to right wing parties because of the history of our country. I think for the biggest part of German society this is still too big an issue to fall for right wing rhetoric and consequently vote for a right wing party. Interestingly, a large part of right wing voters are so-called "Russlanddeutsche". Ethnic Germans who migrated to Russia from the 16th century onwards and came back to Germany after the Soviet Union fell.

So, you're saying that Merkel is almost certainly looking down the barrel of a majority or strong coalition.

 

Seems fairly reasonable looking at the entire picture.

 

It won't stop "some" from telling you you're wrong again though.  Even though you reside their we've members who have friends of friends who like to claim otherwise

[Warhippy]

14 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

What is more concerning is he doesn't even know the name to his own party.

 

Pretty hard to take you serious.

 

So because you're to lazy to read the comments and my phone automatically populates a sentence for me you latch on like a labourer at the oil teet.

 

You don't offer anything else but assume that the NDP in Germany is the same as the NDP in canada based on your first post in this thread, then to save face latch on to a phone error.

 

Kinda sad Stromee.  You'll do anything to throw shade at the NDP no matter what the name means or country of origin without even thinking

Edited September 24, 2017 by Warhippy

[Warhippy]

11 hours ago, Lateralus91 said:

But that has been the case for years and in recent years the CDU's programme shifted more and more towards the left. That's actually the criticism of the "Great Coalition". That CDU and SPD's programmes are too similar by now. Both parties could be considered center. And in comparison to the US Republicans for example, the CDU is way more left than them. In general, I think only the AfD might be comparable to US Republicans with their programme. So in the great scheme of things, I wouldn't say we have a fairly conservative parliament in comparison to the US right now. And we won't have after this election.

And, as I said. It's not just the right-wing parties which will get more votes this election. The left-wing voters will also increase. So I don't see this as the big shift to the right as some people try to make it out to be.

By all accounts it appears as though it will more of the same or a maintained status quo.

 

How much influence if any does what happens in the US have on German policy or opinion?

[Lateralus91]

First calculations of today:

 

CDU 33.3%

SPD 20.8%

AfD 13.2%

FDP 10.1%

Green Party 9.2%

Left 8.9%

 

Close to 100% that there will be another "Great Coalition". Meh.

 

21 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

How much influence if any does what happens in the US have on German policy or opinion?

Interesting question. In foreign policy you definitely see a shift already to a less close relationship to the USA. Merkel frequently mentioned a more European solution and in my view she seems to seek other partners more closely. First and foremost France and Canada. Maybe you saw the pictures from G20. All parties, except the AfD, are very careful when it comes to Trump. All party leaders made quite disappointed statements after Trump's election.

 

Edit: SPD just said they want to go into opposition. Interesting move. Very curious what will happen now. Probably very long negotiations from the CDU with multiple parties to form a coalition.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Lateralus91

[Lateralus91]

Most likely coalition now would be "Jamaica". CDU (black), FDP (yellow) and Green Party. They got over 50%. 

[Warhippy]

And that's it.  With over 32% Merkel wins another one.  Now to figure out who to play ball with.  The AFD looks rather frightening honestly.  Threatening to punish anyone in government allowing refugees and war migrants in to germany 

 

Will be interesting especially with the SPD now entering opposition instead of working with her.  Be interested to hear what @Lateralus91 thinks is the most common sense movement forward here

[Warhippy]

29 minutes ago, Lateralus91 said:

Most likely coalition now would be "Jamaica". CDU (black), FDP (yellow) and Green Party. They got over 50%. 

How opposing are their policies?

[189lb enforcers?]

On 2017-09-22 at 11:30 PM, 6string said:

End the Euro!

 

Crush the globalists.

You mean get off of the banksters interest slaveitude? 

 

Hitler tried. Not quite the narrative you'll read in your "schools" though.

 

Permanently changed the homeland and culture of an ancient Arian race. Did the people really vote for that?

Wonder why Japan doesn't follow suit?  

 

[Lateralus91]

18 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Will be interesting especially with the SPD now entering opposition instead of working with her.  Be interested to hear what @Lateralus91 thinks is the most common sense movement forward here

 

23 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

How opposing are their policies?

Probably what is happening right now. Everybody is doing anything they can to involve the AfD into anything more significant than the parliament. The "Jamaica" coalition will probably come to terms somehow and form the governing coalition. CDU and FDP are quite old friends, they will come to terms rather quickly. Green Party might draw out coalition negotiations a bit, though. SPD sacrifices all government ambitions to prevent the AfD from being the opposition leader.

[Warhippy]

10 minutes ago, Lateralus91 said:

 

Probably what is happening right now. Everybody is doing anything they can to involve the AfD into anything more significant than the parliament. The "Jamaica" coalition will probably come to terms somehow and form the governing coalition. CDU and FDP are quite old friends, they will come to terms rather quickly. Green Party might draw out coalition negotiations a bit, though. SPD sacrifices all government ambitions to prevent the AfD from being the opposition leader.

Are the AFD that repugnant?  Based on their platform they seem like the same kind here that supported Trump with his rabid anti everyone promises.

[Lateralus91]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Are the AFD that repugnant?  Based on their platform they seem like the same kind here that supported Trump with his rabid anti everyone promises.

For most Germans, yes. I would absolutely agree with your assessment on the AfD. But Germany just has a completely different political environment than the US. I said before the AfD are quite similar to the US Republican party. And that's pretty much as far right as it gets in Germany. The CDU (supposed center-right) is probably more comparable to the US Dems in their policies than the Republicans. And due to our history everything associated with right-wing or nationalist ideas is still not an option to even take into consideration for a government role for anyone not voting them. Most Germans have at least one living relative or neighbour who had to live under the Nazis. And their stories are quite the impressive to hear as a child. You don't forget that too quickly.

 

From my personal view: the construct of patriotism -  to love the hypothetical construct of an entity closely linked to a random geographical area - still bewilders me very much. Don't get me wrong. Germany is pretty nice. But that's because the people living in it make that happen. Now that I'm at it - the flag argument in the NFL right now... I don't get that either. I think it's terribly funny to worship a piece of cloth and simultaneously condemn a huge part of the people that piece of cloth represents.

[189lb enforcers?]

36 minutes ago, Lateralus91 said:

For most Germans, yes. I would absolutely agree with your assessment on the AfD. But Germany just has a completely different political environment than the US. I said before the AfD are quite similar to the US Republican party. And that's pretty much as far right as it gets in Germany. The CDU (supposed center-right) is probably more comparable to the US Dems in their policies than the Republicans. And due to our history everything associated with right-wing or nationalist ideas is still not an option to even take into consideration for a government role for anyone not voting them. Most Germans have at least one living relative or neighbour who had to live under the Nazis. And their stories are quite the impressive to hear as a child. You don't forget that too quickly.

 

From my personal view: the construct of patriotism -  to love the hypothetical construct of an entity closely linked to a random geographical area - still bewilders me very much. Don't get me wrong. Germany is pretty nice. But that's because the people living in it make that happen. Now that I'm at it - the flag argument in the NFL right now... I don't get that either. I think it's terribly funny to worship a piece of cloth and simultaneously condemn a huge part of the people that piece of cloth represents.

Imagine being told/demanded that you must express shame towards your flag. Imagine what that does to its children.

 

Look at our arguments for indigenous issues here revolving around the legacy issues concerning residential schools. Here, we are making constant reparations much like the German people, Nazi or not, must continue to do to support their Jewish issue and its outright economy. Germany has been bled to death and now faces a new cultural war within its borders. How far the mighty and proud people of Germany have fallen these past 100 years. Truely one for the annuals of History - and its far from over. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by 189lb enforcers?

[Lateralus91]

8 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Imagine being told/demanded that you express shame towards your flag. Imagine what that does to its children.

Ok. Well. Than so be it. I don't care. It's literally just a piece of cloth to me.

 

9 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Look at our arguments for indigenous issues here revolving around the legacy issues concerning residential schools. Here, we are making constant reparations much like the German people, Nazi or not, must continue to support the Jewish issue and its outright economy. Germany has been bled to death and now faces a new cultural war within its borders. How far the mighty and proud people of Germany have fallen these past 100 years. Truely one for the annuals of History - and its far from over.

Sorry, what? I don't seem to speak your language. Bled to death? From whom?

Facing a cultural war?  

Mighty and proud people. Yeah, how we've fallen... to the economic leader of europe. Lmao. Hopefully we keep falling like that. That would be friggin awesome. 

[Toews]

26 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Imagine being told/demanded that you must express shame towards your flag. Imagine what that does to its children. 

The demands are actually coming from those that want to stop the protest. "Make them stand or fire them!". No one is also saying that "you must express shame towards your flag". If you think the protest is about the flag or even the anthem then you have missed the point. People are kneeling or sitting to protest racial inequality and in particular police brutality, the first amendment guarantees you the right to freedom of expression. People are exercising those rights and protesting peacefully. Hopefully any children watching will realize that the citizens of a country and their rights matter more than a flag or a song.

[joe-max]

43 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Imagine being told/demanded that you must express shame towards your flag. Imagine what that does to its children.

 

Look at our arguments for indigenous issues here revolving around the legacy issues concerning residential schools. Here, we are making constant reparations much like the German people, Nazi or not, must continue to do to support their Jewish issue and its outright economy. Germany has been bled to death and now faces a new cultural war within its borders. How far the mighty and proud people of Germany have fallen these past 100 years. Truely one for the annuals of History - and its far from over. 

And by the mighty and proud Germany of 100 years ago you mean that nation that was about to lose World War I?

[Stanky Legs]

I saw this clip of Merkel getting a flag from a supporter I guess, and throwing it out seemingly annoyed. Why is that?

[Ryan Strome]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

So because you're to lazy to read the comments and my phone automatically populates a sentence for me you latch on like a labourer at the oil teet.

 

You don't offer anything else but assume that the NDP in Germany is the same as the NDP in canada based on your first post in this thread, then to save face latch on to a phone error.

 

Kinda sad Stromee.  You'll do anything to throw shade at the NDP no matter what the name means or country of origin without even thinking

1) sure..lol

 

2) Again you're the only one that missed the sarcasm. Btw there is no ndp party in Germany.

 

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Imagine being told/demanded that you must express shame towards your flag. Imagine what that does to its children.

 

Look at our arguments for indigenous issues here revolving around the legacy issues concerning residential schools. Here, we are making constant reparations much like the German people, Nazi or not, must continue to do to support their Jewish issue and its outright economy. Germany has been bled to death and now faces a new cultural war within its borders. How far the mighty and proud people of Germany have fallen these past 100 years. Truely one for the annuals of History - and its far from over. 

Sorry? Who is making such a demand?

 

As far as the election goes, I'm glad to see Merkel re-elected. The world needs intelligent leaders who don't say or do the first stupid thing that pops into their head....

 

 

Edited September 24, 2017 by RUPERTKBD

[Lateralus91]

@Warhippy and anyone who's interested. Just saw this article on Twitter and I found it to be very accurate on Merkel's foreign policy in the age of Trump, Putin, Erdogan and Brexit.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/24/world/europe/germany-merkel-europe.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur