Whitehouse Visit

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, Undrafted said:

This is the absolute last time I respond to you.

 

I gave you a basic example of how in general, whites have an advantage over non-whites.  When I gave you that answer, you then made it all about YOU and your situation.  Your experience is not even remotely representative of all whites; by the same token, PK Subban's experience is not remotely representative of all blacks (to which he will acknowledge, at least).

 

We don't have quotas in Canada.  In the US, Affirmative Action was put in place because in spite of being more qualified than white candidates, non-whites were routinely passed over. 

 

AA doesn't affect low-to-mid paying jobs in practice--white employers don't care about the race of lower-level employees.  Neither does it affect small businesses with small workforces.

 

It's specifically about the hiring practices for high-level paying jobs that carry authority: most notably, upper management jobs at the corporate and government-level because whites at the highest echelon do not want to allow women and minorities into their ranks.  In short, even if they had AA in Canada, it wouldn't affect you or me, either in the present or back when they instituted the program.

You've gone of the deep end and I feel sorry for you and you've true feelings have come out with this reply.  You don't realize it but you clearly are playing the victim card, as shown by the bolded.  In a capitalistic economy nothing holds you back but your own value you bring.  You sure you don't follow left leaning social media? Maybe Buzzfeed perhaps?.  Whites aren't even North America's top earners.  Must be that Asian privilege.  Why are they able to burst through those white man's barriers.  Sit on that for a second

[189lb enforcers?]

19 minutes ago, Undrafted said:

This is the absolute last time I respond to you.

 

I gave you a basic example of how in general, whites have an advantage over non-whites.  When I gave you that answer, you then made it all about YOU and your situation.  Your experience is not even remotely representative of all whites; by the same token, PK Subban's experience is not remotely representative of all blacks (to which he will acknowledge, at least).

 

We don't have quotas in Canada.  In the US, Affirmative Action was put in place because in spite of being more qualified than white candidates, non-whites were routinely passed over. 

 

AA doesn't affect low-to-mid paying jobs in practice--white employers don't care about the race of lower-level employees.  Neither does it affect small businesses with small workforces.

 

It's specifically about the hiring practices for high-level paying jobs that carry authority: most notably, upper management jobs at the corporate and government-level because whites at the highest echelon do not want to allow women and minorities into their ranks.  In short, even if they had AA in Canada, it wouldn't affect you or me, either in the present or back when they instituted the program.

Yawn.

Seriously, pathetic response.

 

You're not part of the solution, I don't need a hill to see that from. 

I agree to disagree. Going to use my white privileged elsewhere. 

 

Off to oppress some folks after my secret handshake down at the KKK/everywhere to get some women and other poor souls booted out of the boys club.

 

see you there, Forsberg.

PS

dont forget the latest meeting minutes from our exclusive, enduring opportunities-for-Whites-only meetings. 

 

[Undrafted]

13 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Didn't you just say.  "now that I'm old, I don't get stopped by the cops at random".  Apparently to you it's changed.

If by that, you mean being less 'suspicious' because of my age, perhaps.  But it's also because my income has improved and I live in better neighbourhoods.  And moving away from the GTA helps a LOT.  The fact is, we don't have remotely the kind of problems that Toronto does--we don't have the kind of ethnically-divided neighbourhoods that they do.  In Toronto, blacks are generally lumped into either the Jane/Finch corridor or Malvern.

 

18 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why do you think that is?  Is it simply because people feel the need to give blacks less? No it's because good teachers go to people willing to pay more.  Good teachers go to areas that are safer.   Again My wife’s mom is the perfect example of this, she got paid pretty good money to teach on a fly in native reserve in Alberta.  But because of the living conditions and the terrible quality of life that my wife had (as a young girl) living there, my mother inlaw decided to leave.  Whose fault is that?

 

I would also argue that that quality of a school in low income white neighborhoods in the US are just as bad.

Why do I think that is?  It's simple: schools are funded by local taxes.  You're right, low-income WHITE neighborhoods are also poorly served.  But the number of low-income white neighborhoods are significantly less than low-income black neighborhoods in the US; plus low-income black neighborhoods are more populous and in urban areas: low-income white populations are generally rural.

 

As for the link you cited: I don't consider a right-wing blog to be a credible source of information (I looked)

31 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I'm sorry but you saying white males don't have the same barriers is a lazy personal opinion for you to victimize yourself.  It's not true. 

I wasn't the one who brought up my experiences with the police or otherwise--you were the one who asked me to talk about it.  If anything, I've tried to keep things away from my personal experience because I don't like talking about it.  When you dismiss my experience as "well, that was a long time ago, get over it", it pisses me off and that's why I don't like talking about it.

 

And you don't seem to grasp the idea that "white privilege" or not being equal in the eyes of society go beyond jobs and money.  Negative cultural stereotypes don't necessarily affect "the bottom line".

 

When people do stupid things like tweet racist remarks about black athletes, especially NHL players (because hockey should be "whites only"), it doesn't affect the athletes themselves.  But it does send negative messages to black KIDS who follow those athletes because THEY see those messages.  It's no different than the now-outdated notion that blacks couldn't be QBs or coaches in the NFL (something that Rush Limbaugh advocated as late as the 90s during his attempt to be a sportscaster, in a spat over Donovan McNabb).

 

This is precisely why I don't think the Pens should visit the WH.  It sends a bad message that they condone 45's assertion that black athletes should NOT protest.  It's not about the Pens' personal beliefs--it's about backing up their fellow athletes on an important issue.

[Undrafted]

27 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

You've gone of the deep end and I feel sorry for you and you've true feelings have come out with this reply.  You don't realize it but you clearly are playing the victim card, as shown by the bolded.  In a capitalistic economy nothing holds you back but your own value you bring.  You sure you don't follow left leaning social media? Maybe Buzzfeed perhaps?.  Whites aren't even North America's top earners.  Must be that Asian privilege.  Why are they able to burst through those white man's barriers.  Sit on that for a second

I'm playing the victim card?  How so?  I said specifically it doesn't affect me or 189.  You don't think he's playing the victim card because he says he's poor and white?

[Undrafted]

30 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Whites aren't even North America's top earners.

Sure, white males don't dominate the most wealthy.

 

http://time.com/money/4746795/richest-people-in-the-world/

 

https://www.forbes.com/video/5365290119001/

 

I'm expecting cries of "fake news" after this

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, Undrafted said:

Sure, white males don't dominate the most wealthy.

 

http://time.com/money/4746795/richest-people-in-the-world/

 

https://www.forbes.com/video/5365290119001/

 

I'm expecting cries of "fake news" after this

Because a handful of top white guys represent all white males?  Good grief.  

https://www.financialsamurai.com/income-by-race-why-is-asian-income-so-high/

 

Think about that for a second please, if the white man is holding barriers to different races having success why are asians on average making the most?  That seems to completely debunk your theory.  Maybe because this white privilege theory is a load of BS and just an excuse people use to play the victim card.  Stop blaming everyone else for your problems.  

 

You need to listen to some Ben Shapiro

 

[189lb enforcers?]

Lots of stats in these vids.

 

An Asian buddy said something funny to me during the occupy wall street movements. He said, "did you see any Asians there?!"

I had to pause and laugh. Nope. No victimhood on display from that demographic.

 

Undrafted sees race issues as two colors and no more. 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

Just want to leave a big turd here before I resume my educashun at my whites only university, on my whites only scholarship.

Enjoy:

 

[Sean Monahan]

21 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Whose fault is that?

Mostly white people for absolutely obliterating the native culture and way of life and subjecting them to years of cruel and unusual treatment.

[189lb enforcers?]

21 hours ago, Undrafted said:

I'm playing the victim card?  How so?  I said specifically it doesn't affect me or 189.  You don't think he's playing the victim card because he says he's poor and white?

Well, I looked on the Poor-and-White site, and all I could find was help for other poor colours, most notably, aboriginal Folks.

 

Here is something for getting these folks a trade:

 

ITA’s Aboriginal Initiatives as outlined in the ITA Aboriginal Strategy helps fund Aboriginal trades training programs for unemployed or low-skilled Aboriginal people so that they can break through barriers to employment in the trades and meet the workforce demands of BC’s growing economy. ITA Aboriginal Initiatives works with BC-based Aboriginal employment and training organizations that are well-established and connected to help Aboriginal people get into the trades, and support employers with hiring Aboriginal people. 

 

http://www.itabc.ca/sites/default/files/docs/info/GUIDE-ITA AI LMA Review Pt2-Best Practices Final.pdf

 

Wondering where there tax dollars come from to "fund" this help? From that oppressive majority race of white folks, mostly. 

 

Still looking for the white privilege free-ride trade opportunities for poor whites guys. There is one for women though. Looks like your leaky vessel of Oppression is sinking. 

[Toews]

If you are going to make your arguments then you should post them yourself and not rely on posting random videos. I have no interest in providing Ben Shapiro with any revenue by clicking on his videos. In any case am I supposed to watch the video and guess what your argument might be? Sorry but I find it an incredibly lazy attempt at a rebuttal when you leave a bunch of videos for the rest of us to watch. Nobody you are responding to is going to bother to watch any of them. Make your arguments by yourself even if you have to borrow Ben Shapiro's material.

[189lb enforcers?]

24 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

Mostly white people for absolutely obliterating the native culture and way of life and subjecting them to years of cruel and unusual treatment.

 

So that blacks and Asians, predominantly, can also occupy their lands, also slinging poo at the folks that afforded this constitution, etc? Not a bad gig. 

 

Glass houses, but point accepted. 

Many cultures and peoples have been obliterated over the centuries. Interesting how the only people ever spoken about are white people though. The capacity to milk human guilt amazes me, as applied to the white people of this world. They just open their wallets and pay. Not the Japanese though, but who cares, doesn't suit the narrative and the lucrative guilt milk money machines installed in western culture. 

 

Random thought:

Had the Vikings met our Haida folks, do you think they would have just stared at each other and either fought or not, but then sat down and talked boats and stuff? Similar cultures in the sense of how they lived in structures and what they valued, beyond riches. 

[189lb enforcers?]

9 minutes ago, Toews said:

If you are going to make your arguments then you should post them yourself and not rely on posting random videos. I have no interest in providing Ben Shapiro with any revenue by clicking on his videos. In any case am I supposed to watch the video and guess what your argument might be? Sorry but I find it an incredibly lazy attempt at a rebuttal when you leave a bunch of videos for the rest of us to watch. Nobody you are responding to is going to bother to watch any of them. Make your arguments by yourself even if you have to borrow Ben Shapiro's material.

I am lazy!

And really, what are the odds of either camp switching sides.

This is a total waste of time that way. 

Still, lots of stats on google. Myself, meh, can't be bothered.

 

IMO, there is no argument. The works been done. I am a redundancy here, examining the level of SJW of the site, socially programmed by the leftist media. The BLM led to this knee-taking movement. BLiesM was debunked, so what merit does the latest protest rest its claims on? Empathy. Empathy that 99% of white people are paying taxes towards. What else does this protest want? I think they have a lot to prove, not the other way around. 

[189lb enforcers?]

16 minutes ago, Toews said:

If you are going to make your arguments then you should post them yourself and not rely on posting random videos. I have no interest in providing Ben Shapiro with any revenue by clicking on his videos. In any case am I supposed to watch the video and guess what your argument might be? Sorry but I find it an incredibly lazy attempt at a rebuttal when you leave a bunch of videos for the rest of us to watch. Nobody you are responding to is going to bother to watch any of them. Make your arguments by yourself even if you have to borrow Ben Shapiro's material.

I might have said the same thing, Toews, so we're cool. You have a point. 

 

I suggest you do watch the videos. Are you adverse to hearing from both sides? I am not, I have. I suggest you counter Ben's stats and claims, if that is your camp.

 

It takes less time to have Ben explain things way better than I could on here if I had to type a parroting essay here, which is soo pretentious anyways. Who is the expert on this stuff in here? Nobody, just a bunch of hacks parroting their preferred, revealed opinions. There is very little original thought in the thread, the forum included. Some at least admit they are just posers, regurgitating things they've read themselves.

 

So no, no argument needed really. It comes down to existing biases and the will to waste time preening away in a chat room about them. Posting a video is at least a form of time management during such redundancy. Speaking of which, bye. 

[Rob_Zepp]

[Darkstar]

In the NHL, rich white males dominate the sport. That's Trump's demographic to a tee. How often do you hear of a minority making the NHL? Let alone a minority who grew up poor? Hell, even white dudes whose parents weren't loaded growing up have much more difficulty to make it to the show. All those hockey camps, connections and politics in minor hockey, etc all play a part.

 

The reason why NFL and NBA players are making a stand is that a lot of those players come from the marginalized parts of America, or they know people that have gone through the struggle. It's also why those sports are more popular in the States as well.

 

Hockey is still a rich kids sport, and all those guys on the Pens have no reason to miss the White House visit because they can't understand the idea behind it.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 hours ago, Toews said:

If you are going to make your arguments then you should post them yourself and not rely on posting random videos. I have no interest in providing Ben Shapiro with any revenue by clicking on his videos. In any case am I supposed to watch the video and guess what your argument might be? Sorry but I find it an incredibly lazy attempt at a rebuttal when you leave a bunch of videos for the rest of us to watch. Nobody you are responding to is going to bother to watch any of them. Make your arguments by yourself even if you have to borrow Ben Shapiro's material.

Why restate something when someone already does a perfectly good job at summarizing the issue already.  Ben Shapiro is really good at providing evidence and stats to debunk many of the lefts claims.   He's able to use logic, I really like him and think he has a great mind, and one of the best things about him is that he's not a blind follower, he's on the "right" but he also not afraid to point out mistake that the "right" makes for example, he isn't a huge fan of trump and goes into detail about things he thinks Trump has done wrong.  If you don't want to watch it, that's your choice but that's also you stating you have a closed mind and aren't willing to have an actual debate.  I would highly recommend people actually watching him and listening to what he talks about, he encourages debate from the left, he's a very smart guy.

[189lb enforcers?]

5 hours ago, Darkstar said:

In the NHL, rich white males dominate the sport. That's Trump's demographic to a tee. How often do you hear of a minority making the NHL? Let alone a minority who grew up poor? Hell, even white dudes whose parents weren't loaded growing up have much more difficulty to make it to the show. All those hockey camps, connections and politics in minor hockey, etc all play a part.

 

The reason why NFL and NBA players are making a stand is that a lot of those players come from the marginalized parts of America, or they know people that have gone through the struggle. It's also why those sports are more popular in the States as well.

 

Hockey is still a rich kids sport, and all those guys on the Pens have no reason to miss the White House visit because they can't understand the idea behind it.

Hockey is expensive. So is 4H, because of the farm... 

If anyone feels the need to level the field for money for poor kids, white or not, please start a charity and leave my tax dollars out of it. I'm already taxed to death for rainbow sidewalk painting. 

 

Socialism isn't quite here yet, but equal access to everything isn't a reality just yet. Your parent's decisions still effect how much opportunity they will afford you in the west. If you can't afford to play hockey, you don't play. No different than dirt bikes or anything that involves more than one ball and a horde in an alley, for cost. 

 

Taking a knee because folks cant afford luxuries is the worst thing ever. Trump's demographic? This knee stuff, isn't it older than this election result? Don't confuse parents who made sacrifices that ended up seeing their children in opportunities to excel with a Silver Spoon. My hockey was largely subsidized by my grandparents. I know all about what it takes to get out of the slum. My kids have all sorts of opportunities. I had to go to Alberia to get my head start, but that's how folks do it. Sitting around and looking for a handout isn't going to cut it. 

 

Ive worked with plenty aboriginal guys and gals in the bush in remote places. Some stick, some aren't up for the sacrifice of a 9-5, let alone a 6-6. All the colours you can point out were there too, doing whatever it took to get the means to afford a lifestyle that included kids in hockey. It's equal opportunity to get the means, here and now. Has been for a while. Hockey IS for rich folks, doesn't make it racist.   

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why restate something when someone already does a perfectly good job at summarizing the issue already.  Ben Shapiro is really good at providing evidence and stats to debunk many of the lefts claims.   He's able to use logic, I really like him and think he has a great mind, and one of the best things about him is that he's not a blind follower, he's on the "right" but he also not afraid to point out mistake that the "right" makes for example, he isn't a huge fan of trump and goes into detail about things he thinks Trump has done wrong.  If you don't want to watch it, that's your choice but that's also you stating you have a closed mind and aren't willing to have an actual debate.  I would highly recommend people actually watching him and listening to what he talks about, he encourages debate from the left, he's a very smart guy.

If Ben wasn't a man of faith, it would be hard for me to ever disagree with the guy.

The only times I do is when he starts bringing up God as a reason for anything, especially success. He actually encourages debate, like a scientist likes theories tested. 

[ilduce39]

On 9/29/2017 at 2:36 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Because a handful of top white guys represent all white males?  Good grief.  

https://www.financialsamurai.com/income-by-race-why-is-asian-income-so-high/

 

Think about that for a second please, if the white man is holding barriers to different races having success why are asians on average making the most?  That seems to completely debunk your theory.  Maybe because this white privilege theory is a load of BS and just an excuse people use to play the victim card.  Stop blaming everyone else for your problems.  

 

You need to listen to some Ben Shapiro

 

I watched the first minute of that video and my understanding of white privilege is much different than the straw man that Shapiro started to build with his first sentence.

 

"noone can ever overcome this burden, even if they make the right decisions" - Strawman - my understanding of "white privilege" is that it is an attempt to explain a set of societal / systemic likelihoods and biases that contribute to a disproportionate amount of POC being marginalized -and/or inherent advantages that a statistically disproportionate amount of white people enjoy.

 

It isn't a magical glass ceiling that stops POC from being successful or ensures success for Caucasians. 

 

"America - the freest country ever conceived by man" - That's just funny.

 

"two parent black family vs single parent white family"  Having two parents is more advantageous when it comes to avoiding poverty than skin color.  Thanks Ben.  Any stats comparing two-parent black families vs two parent white families?  Or singe black parents vs single white parents? No?  Didn't think so.  (It's 44% of single-parent blacks in poverty to 22% for white by the way.)

 

"graduate high school, get a job and don't have babies before you're married." - This just reminded me of a case we studied during a class on standardized IQ assessments.  The "Larry P" case in which, in California in the 70s/80s black students were being administered a racially biased IQ test and being disproportionately labelled with intellectual disabilities.  The kicker?  They were then placed in "dead end" streams which resulted in them not being able to graduate.  Along with a history of sub-standard segregated schools and throw in that we know a parent's academic success/attitude impacts children and hey...

 

"not committing crimes privilege" - His crime "facts" are all over the place.  He admits that minority communities are under-policed - which is a bad thing.

 

Further, the cherry picked Moskos quote of "statistically less likely to be shot in a similar situation" is a lie.  It's not a statistic:

 

"Though it goes against the all-cops-are-racist narrative, it's not inconceivable, given an equal threat level, that a white person is actually more likely to be shot by police... it's just speculation...So I am saying that a guy with a gun in the ghetto might actually be less likely to be shot by a cop who is more used to danger and guns."

 

http://www.copinthehood.com/2015/04/killed-by-police-2-of-3-race.html

 

....he also says: " The odds that a black man will be shot and killed by a police officer is about 1 in 60,000. For a white man those odds are 1 in 200,000." 

 

He quotes Roland Fryer's study as showing "black suspects are shot significantly less often than white suspects in comparable situations."

 

Fryer says: " A new study on police force found no bias against black civilians in police shootings in 10 cities and counties, including Houston. It did find bias against blacks in every other type of force, like the use of hands or batons."  It also relied on data offered by departments - some declined. 

 

"in particular a paper published in PLOS ONE by Cody T. Ross. That paper, “A Multi-Level Bayesian Analysis of Racial Bias in Police Shootings at the County-Level in the United States, 2011–2014,” found that the chance of being black, unarmed and shot by the police was about 3.5 times the chance of being white, unarmed and shot by the police."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/upshot/roland-fryer-answers-reader-questions-about-his-police-force-study.html

 

The guy talks about who is more likely to shoot unarmed black suspects... Jesus... the fact that unarmed black (or any!) suspects are being shot is the problem.

 

Which I think deserves national debate, discussion and research beyond "make some better decisions."

 

"decision privilege" - This is the crux of the straw man.  Ben spouts a bunch of basic "how to's" of success but the effect is to feed the biases that his followers assume POC are doing (committing crimes, making babies, doing drugs, complaining about white people), absolves society of any responsibility and shuts down any debate on very real systemic/societal problems - either present or ones of the past that can still be felt.

 

The "Asian privilege" actually ties in well here.  The article admits that most Asian immigrants have money and/or specialized education.  Those are HUGE advantages.  Then it drifts off into the usual gobbeldygook that the privileged espouse to justify their place in society.  Drop an average impoverished Asian rather than the intellectual and financial elite that they let in and see how they do. I know it because I've lived it - my parents are together, own their own home and both have post-secondary education.  I won the lottery. 

 

POC in America disproportionately don't enjoy that - a history of segregated schools, broken families, poverty, being "illegal," speaking a different language, growing up in high crime/ or drug addicted neighborhoods... same goes with First Nations people in Canada.  Not to mention lasting social stigma and marginalization. 

 

Ben Shapiro's silly little "make good decisions" rant may be built around some truths regarding of self-determination (as all straw men are - obviously good decisions help) but it's a super lazy attempt to refute the idea of "white privilege" which attempts to address the reasons for disproportionate success along racial lines.  Not to mention ignoring the fact that, on average, many POC are born into lives that bring extra challenges.

 

(Honestly, I'm more on board with an economic lens, but that's scarily Marxist to some.)