Whitehouse Visit

[Tystick]

9 hours ago, Undrafted said:

Actually, you're wrong about it being "a tradition to stand up in unity and sing our countries anthem to honor those that died to keep our country free"; there is a specific day we do that in Canada and in the US (Remembrance Day here/Veteran's Day in the US).  The anthem and the flag are nothing more than symbols of the country and the values that country represents. 

 

It's only been in recent years, most notably after 9/11, that the anthem/flag has been associated specifically with the military and again, it was done so for political purposes (back then, it was the GWBush administration in an attempt to whip up support for the Iraq War II).

 

What's more, soldiers past and present do not fight for the flag itself.  In WWII, they fought against Nazism, partly in self-defence (that is, so that the world would not be conquered by the Nazis).  In Korea and Vietnam, they fought for both ideological reasons (attempting to stem Communism) but in reality, it was a world power struggle since these were foreign wars.  And of course, the two Iraq wars were all about trying to control oil reserves.  It has nothing to do with flags, anthems or even self-defence of the nation.  Soldiers fight and die because politicians *order* them to and soldiers are bound to follow those orders, whether they agree or not.

 

As stated, the flag and the anthem represent the values of it's country: in the US, that means the freedoms and rights enshrined in the Constitution that applies to ALL citizens.  The US flag and anthem mean NOTHING if those rights and freedoms no longer apply.  And that is why the owners and players united together following 45's comments in Alabama: it is unconscionable for a sitting POTUS to suggest that those exercising one's First Amendment rights should be silenced.

 

I don't know if you're merely ignorant of the facts or being deliberately obtuse, but non-whites (of all colours) are disadvantaged compared to whites--that is a fact of life for all of us who aren't white.  Believe me, I know because I'm not white and I was born/raised long before political correctness was even an idea--I was raised in a time when white racism was open and acceptable. 

 

Being stopped for "driving while black" is more than just annoying.  When cops stop blacks, they don't act like they do when you, a white man, gets pulled over.  If they pull you over, they'll say, "Sir, can I see your driver's licence and registration, please?"  With black people, they say, "Hands where I can see them!" and point guns at them, regardless of whether they've given the police any reason to suspect wrongdoing.

 

In the end, if you really hate the fact that they're protesting in that fashion, that's fine--you have that freedom to do so.  But much of the reasons WHY you dislike it are based on incorrect information and to be quite blunt, you've been manipulated exactly the way 45 wants you to be.  He wants you to hate them; he wants you to think black people are ungrateful, unpatriotic, etc. because he very deliberately wants to divide not just Americans but the whole world along those lines.

Okay fine, we stand together in unison to sing the anthem and celebrate the country.

These football players are disrespecting that. They don't like Trump and want to push a political narrative. Pathetic.

 

Regardless of who's right, what's the point? Because the anthem is somehow not about the country it's okay to disrespect it?

 

When it comes to declared wars, the soldiers very much fight for the flag because the flag represents the freedom of country and they must fight to keep that freedom alive.

I agree with your anger when it comes to undeclared wars. That's separate to this issue though.

 

Who's rights and freedoms no longer apply? The rich football players?

 

Oh please.

No one's disagreeing that racism has existed but it's largely corrected and is very rare today. Please, show me these facts I'm ignorant of.

Which non whites are disadvantaged? The NFL, NBA, and music industry are filled with black millionaires.

Could it be that maybe the black community has a very high violent crime rate and the community should clean itself up before crying institutional racism.? Ask any hard working person who happens to be black, they don't agree with your narrative. They're just as advantaged as anyone else.

Just because there is inequality in wealth between different ethnic groups, does not automatically mean there is racial discrimination. For example, Indian Americans are the richest in America.

Oh and please point to me where I can cash in on my white privilege, I'm still trying to find it.

 

Please present the evidence proving that all black people are pulled over at gun point, and all white people are pulled over with a casual registration request.

 

I don't see how Trump wants me to hate the black community? That doesn't make any sense. Even if he out right stated that in the media, I would disagree with him strongly.

I've not been manipulated, I can think for myself. I don't agree with everything Trump says or does.

I think you're the one that's been manipulated.

Stop watching CNN and MSNBC.

[Lancaster]

32 minutes ago, CeeBee51 said:

Are you saying the right don't have fads?

I didn't say they didn't... but the left certainly are more noisier about it. 

[Tystick]

Oh and by the way I looked into your 2009 claim, and I found this:

 

Singing the national anthem before National Football League games has been ongoing for "decades," said NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy.

One aspect of this history that has spawned some confusion in recent days concerns a change made in 2009.

Until that year, players in primetime games would remain inside their locker rooms while the anthem was sung, due to timing concerns for the television networks. After 2009, the players in primetime games have been on the field during the anthem, McCarthy said.

But this change only affected primetime games. For all other games -- typically held at 1 p.m. or 4 p.m.  Eastern -- players had already been stationed on the field for the national anthem. So the 2009 change simply applied to primetime games the rules that had already been in place for daytime games.

Part of the confusion, McCarthy said, may be that television networks often haven’t shown the national anthem being played.

 

This is coming from the NFL.

[Ronaldoescobar]

Its probably been mentioned in this thread but the players do have a right to protest but not exactly during the game on NFL time as they could be fined by the teams or NFL themselves as the Constitutional right of freedom of speech/expression is not applicable in a private business such as the NFL (try taking a knee at your office for 5 min during a presentation and see what the boss says)... Now wait, this also means that the President, while talking a good game, cannot order the NFL/NBA to make players stand during the anthem again because of the private nature of the organization. Of course fans have the right to buy or not buy tickets or boycott sponsors if they so choose.   

 

That all being said,  how much money the players make really has nothing to do with the cause they are protesting and to bring that up to discredit said protest is just dumb. Although different circumstances, Its like the fools who whine about Trump donating $1M to hurricane relief (which is like the average person giving 10 cents) saying he is cheap or not really helping..  

 

Also I have many (ok 6 so maybe not many) relatives that have served/are serving in the US armed forces who are pretty much split on this and really you are not speaking for everyone by saying the players are disrespecting the military, as probably half of those who have served/serving would argue this particular freedom is exactly why they do/did so. 

[Sbriggs]

19 hours ago, darkpoet said:

I don't recall giving you permission to speak on my behalf.

Please refrain from doing so again.

 

My point with the WE is that WE as a country and a sport don't have racist views like Trump and a large portion of the southern US.

If I was wrong thinking WE all have those views then WE will us the  "exception to all rules" for people like yourself

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, chon derry said:

colin kaepernik was born by a single mother and then put up for adoption ,adopted by the kaepernik family , you talk about him as though he has always been a "zillionaire" he like a lot of other people in the world are sick of police brutality, He also realized he had the ability to shed some light on the issue. for me the fact that he has a lot of money isn't relavant ,ive seen past that and tried to understand the message and not pick apart the messanger,     but for a guy that always has the answer for everything ,carry on.......

Shed light on which issue? 

What issue? Be exact. 

 

Wtf, I've said many times that I am an idiot, not the answer to everything. Why'd you say that?

 

[chon derry]

Just now, 189lb enforcers? said:

Shed light on which issue? 

What issue? Be exact. 

 

Wtf, I've said many times that I am an idiot, not the answer to everything. Why'd you say that?

 

get away from me 

[189lb enforcers?]

27 minutes ago, Sbriggs said:

My point with the WE is that WE as a country and a sport don't have racist views like Trump and a large portion of the southern US.

If I was wrong thinking WE all have those views then WE will us the  "exception to all rules" for people like yourself

What racist views does Trump have?

I can't find any. 

 

Also, I distrust people who us "we" when speaking. You should too. 

[189lb enforcers?]

Just now, chon derry said:

get away from me 

No, please discuss and enlighten me. 

What is the issue that guy is holding up and who is he making it to?

 

[chon derry]

14 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

No, please discuss and enlighten me. 

What is the issue that guy is holding up and who is he making it to?

 

to quote him, he said originally he was tired of people lying in the streets dead, specifically black people. all the while police being on paid leave because of it.      now get away from me!

[Tre Mac]

On ‎25‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:14 AM, HI5 said:

I choose to laydown

I choose to levitate

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, chon derry said:

to quote him, he said originally he was tired of people lying in the streets dead, specifically black people. all the while police being on paid leave because of it.      now get away from me!

Is that a quote?

Are you aware of how many armed "black" people have been killed by police?

If you are serious about things, I challenge you to look at the stats behind the fallacy of the entire BLM movement, of which this discussion(s) derive from, politically.

 

I have no dog in this fight. All I have are facts from statistics that have disproved this myth. 

[Mr.53]

14 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Please show me how zillionaire athletes are being oppressed.

 

There are so few rich athletes who are black. It's because of a secret club of nazis or some $&!# holding them back. Obama and Oprah are victims too?! 

 

What are you standing up for, exactly?

Are you oppressed? 

Is this not just another BS claim like BLM?  

It's not about zillionare athletes. They stand up for the people who don't have a voice. If the poor or powerless stand, they don't get cameras shown nationwide. If a powerful celebrity does, they do.

 

I'm standing up for the millions of blacks that do have to live in fear that they could be killed while unarmed. The numbers don't lie. Black people are much more likely to be killed while unarmed by police officers. Whatever reasoning you want to give, you give. But when you talk about evidence: Tamir Rice, Alton Sterling, Eric Garner, Freddie Gray, Laquan McDonald, Sandra Bland, Walter Scott, Mike Brown, Philando Castille, etc. The constitution of the United States gaurantees all of them due process, as well as the right to no cruel and unusual punishment. According to the supreme court, and literally centuries of precedent, that goes to mean that they have a right to due process, before execution. None of them were gauranteed that right, but rather had, that and their lives taken. If you truly believe in rule of law, both legal, and moral law, then you have to see that these people were denied a basic fundamental constitutional and humanitarian right. That's why Kaepernick took a knee, and that's why I hoped to see my canadian athletes support.

 

It's the responsibility of the powerful to take care of those who can't. Or at least morally it should be. So yes, celebrities than don't see the everyday effects of oppression, usually do to their wealth, should do as Kaepernick did and stand/kneel for those who aren't in his situation and don't have millions. Obama and Oprah fought through the battles growing up, and made it to the other side. So yes, it is especially their responsibility to try and make the gap a little bit bigger for those after them. But secret club of nazis? Uh ok. Whose the nazi's? If you are referring to Trump, and insinuating that I called him a nazi, you are mistaken. But no, he did attack Kaepernick, his free speech rights, gauranteed by the first amendment of the American constitution, as well as the rights for all the players. As the leader of a country, that's unnacceptable. If Crosby isn't going to do it for the Kaepernick like reasons, at least do it based on the idea of free speech. You can't let the president encourage, or support the idea of disciplining someone for what they say. That is unconstitutional and wrong. He's not a normal citizen, he is the head of the government.

 

Basically. there are many reason's not to go. But unity is the biggest one. Crosby is a man about community. Who seems to care about the general welfare of his community. Just ask any person in Pittsburgh. The entire NFL, and now coaches, and owners, and entire teams have seen, this man is a divider. Once he doesn't like what you have to say, he will come at you, and seek to single you out. Divide and conquer is his go too. And that's why NFL teams and management stood in unison. That's why the Warriors and Steph are in unison. That's why even Lebron is coming to his arch rivals defence in unity. All I'm saying is I hoped Crosby, and more Canadian athletes, especially being that many of them spend their whole careers in the states, would be able to see why it's important as well. 

 

You need any more education, or you good?

[Ronaldoescobar]

3 minutes ago, Mr.53 said:

It's not about zillionare athletes. They stand up for the people who don't have a voice. If the poor or powerless stand, they don't get cameras shown nationwide. If a powerful celebrity does, they do.

 

I'm standing up for the millions of blacks that do have to live in fear that they could be killed while unarmed. The numbers don't lie. Black people are much more likely to be killed while unarmed by police officers. Whatever reasoning you want to give, you give. But when you talk about evidence: Tamir Rice, Alton Sterling, Eric Garner, Freddie Gray, Laquan McDonald, Sandra Bland, Walter Scott, Mike Brown, Philando Castille, etc. The constitution of the United States gaurantees all of them due process, as well as the right to no cruel and unusual punishment. According to the supreme court, and literally centuries of precedent, that goes to mean that they have a right to due process, before execution. None of them were gauranteed that right, but rather had, that and their lives taken. If you truly believe in rule of law, both legal, and moral law, then you have to see that these people were denied a basic fundamental constitutional and humanitarian right. That's why Kaepernick took a knee, and that's why I hoped to see my canadian athletes support.

 

It's the responsibility of the powerful to take care of those who can't. Or at least morally it should be. So yes, celebrities than don't see the everyday effects of oppression, usually do to their wealth, should do as Kaepernick did and stand/kneel for those who aren't in his situation and don't have millions. Obama and Oprah fought through the battles growing up, and made it to the other side. So yes, it is especially their responsibility to try and make the gap a little bit bigger for those after them. But secret club of nazis? Uh ok. Whose the nazi's? If you are referring to Trump, and insinuating that I called him a nazi, you are mistaken. But no, he did attack Kaepernick, his free speech rights, gauranteed by the first amendment of the American constitution, as well as the rights for all the players. As the leader of a country, that's unnacceptable. If Crosby isn't going to do it for the Kaepernick like reasons, at least do it based on the idea of free speech. You can't let the president encourage, or support the idea of disciplining someone for what they say. That is unconstitutional and wrong. He's not a normal citizen, he is the head of the government.

 

Basically. there are many reason's not to go. But unity is the biggest one. Crosby is a man about community. Who seems to care about the general welfare of his community. Just ask any person in Pittsburgh. The entire NFL, and now coaches, and owners, and entire teams have seen, this man is a divider. Once he doesn't like what you have to say, he will come at you, and seek to single you out. Divide and conquer is his go too. And that's why NFL teams and management stood in unison. That's why the Warriors and Steph are in unison. That's why even Lebron is coming to his arch rivals defence in unity. All I'm saying is I hoped Crosby, and more Canadian athletes, especially being that many of them spend their whole careers in the states, would be able to see why it's important as well. 

 

You need any more education, or you good?

Queue the I still dont understand. Need to explain better. What is this mean, what does that mean etc, Hillary this, illegal aliens killing everyone that, various whataboutisms... Its on purpose and used frequently by eastern European bot nets (like the ones Trump keeps re-tweeting) and people that dont have a valid argument to counter you.  

 

[tkanuk]

3 hours ago, Tystick said:

Okay fine, we stand together in unison to sing the anthem and celebrate the country.

These football players are disrespecting that. They don't like Trump and want to push a political narrative. Pathetic.

 

Regardless of who's right, what's the point? Because the anthem is somehow not about the country it's okay to disrespect it?

 

When it comes to declared wars, the soldiers very much fight for the flag because the flag represents the freedom of country and they must fight to keep that freedom alive.

I agree with your anger when it comes to undeclared wars. That's separate to this issue though.

 

Who's rights and freedoms no longer apply? The rich football players?

 

Oh please.

No one's disagreeing that racism has existed but it's largely corrected and is very rare today. Please, show me these facts I'm ignorant of.

Which non whites are disadvantaged? The NFL, NBA, and music industry are filled with black millionaires.

Could it be that maybe the black community has a very high violent crime rate and the community should clean itself up before crying institutional racism.? Ask any hard working person who happens to be black, they don't agree with your narrative. They're just as advantaged as anyone else.

Just because there is inequality in wealth between different ethnic groups, does not automatically mean there is racial discrimination. For example, Indian Americans are the richest in America.

Oh and please point to me where I can cash in on my white privilege, I'm still trying to find it.

 

Please present the evidence proving that all black people are pulled over at gun point, and all white people are pulled over with a casual registration request.

 

I don't see how Trump wants me to hate the black community? That doesn't make any sense. Even if he out right stated that in the media, I would disagree with him strongly.

I've not been manipulated, I can think for myself. I don't agree with everything Trump says or does.

I think you're the one that's been manipulated.

Stop watching CNN and MSNBC.

Hi! Sorry to barge in on your conversation, but there's just so much wrong here. Racism is largely corrected today? I'd love to see some proof of THAT. Here are 15 studies that say otherwise: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/civil-rights-act-anniversary-racism-charts_n_5521104 There are many more. A simple search will turn those up. Systemically, people of colour do worse off financially than white people. That's a fact. "Black millionaires" doesn't change that. And have you closed your eyes to the hundreds (or thousands? or millions?) of examples of injustices against Black people at the hands of the police in America? Why is that happening?

 

And why do YOU think there is more crime in Black neighbourhoods? Are Black people inherently more violent? I'd love to know your answer, and I'd love for you to back it up with research?  

 

Maybe you don't feel privileged as a white person. I don't know why. But overall, white people make more money, own more property, have a higher rate of education, are more likely to be hired for jobs, are more likely to get a decent rental apartment, are more likely to get accepted to a gifted program or university, etc etc etc. These are facts.

 

I'll leave the trump stuff for someone else. Cant even bear it. 

[JeremyCuddles]

Steve Kerr said something interesting about the White House visit and how special it is, he said normally he'd put political differences aside and support the institution by going. Obviously with all the turmoil surrounding Trump and the black population it'd be hard for a predominantly black team to show up at the White House with the current administration.

 

Hockey is a rich white man sport. Not to mention the best players on Pittsburgh are Canadian and Russian. They have no dog in this fight. I think they should have opted out, but it's their choice to do so. I bet if they had more black players they'd not go. 

[Toews]

If people are truly committed to remove all politics from sports then they should advocate getting rid of anthems, get rid of demonstrations supporting the military, police etc. I could get behind that. If you want to sports to be just about sports then get rid of anything that doesn't involve playing the sport. The only pre-game ceremonies will be celebrating the athletes playing the sport like the HOF ceremony, jersey retirements, honoring former NHL players etc. 

[chon derry]

29 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Is that a quote?

Are you aware of how many armed "black" people have been killed by police?

If you are serious about things, I challenge you to look at the stats behind the fallacy of the entire BLM movement, of which this discussion(s) derive from, politically.

 

I have no dog in this fight. All I have are facts from statistics that have disproved this myth. 

it is what it is ,if its ticked you and Donald off so what, THIS IS HAPPINING  deal with it

[CeeBee51]

 

Two, one-two-three-four!

Ev'rybody's talking 'bout
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, is-m, is-m, is-m

All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance

Hit it
C'mon, ev'rybody's talking about
Ministers, sinisters, banisters and canisters
Bishops and Fishops and Rabbis and Popeyes and bye-bye, bye-byes

All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance

Let me tell you now
Ev'rybody's talking 'bout
Revolution, evolution, masturbation, flagellation, regulation, integrations
Meditations, United Nations, congratulations

All we are saying is give peace a chance
All we are saying is give peace a chance

[Sbriggs]

2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

What racist views does Trump have?

I can't find any. 

 

Also, I distrust people who us "we" when speaking. You should too. 

If you can't find any racist comments or views that Trump has then answering the rest of your questions is a waist of time