JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 So another season and another giant drool bucket over McDavid... but with all the hype I can't shake the idea that he's actually not a complete player in the mould of e.g., Sid Crosby or potentially Austin Matthews. So flame away but here's my rationale for this: 1. McDavid is a very poor face-off C. 2. McDavid is not a physical player. He's no physical threat whatsoever, we saw Kesler e.g., dominate the guy in the playoffs, and thats something he has yet to overcome. Crosby is a much more agitating player. On face-offs e.g., McD in his second year only took 806 draws with a 43.2% win rate, Sid in his 2nd year 1615 with a 51.3% win rate (and as improved since). McD's closer to Chaput than Crosby in this regard, with Chaput actually winning more draws. So for these two reasons I think we can't put McDavid in the same category as Sid or potentially Matthews, or make comparisons with the retired great's. I really feel like you have to be at least competent on draws to be in the same category as the greats. Sure he may end up scoring a lot of points, but unless you are a complete C I don't think the comparison with the great C's of the game are justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Nirvanagut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Plus McDavid looks like a 15 year old kid with bad skin. Not relevant to hockey but he looks like a child. He has a long ways to go before he's anywhere near Crosby's level. This whole "best since Gretzky" is complete rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 *What this post would say if Canucks drafted McDavid instead* Why McDavid is already better than Crosby at only 20, may even surpass Gretzky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: So another season and another giant drool bucket over McDavid... but with all the hype I can't shake the idea that he's actually not a complete player in the mould of e.g., Sid Crosby or potentially Austin Matthews. So flame away but here's my rationale for this: 1. McDavid is a very poor face-off C. 2. McDavid is not a physical player. He's no physical threat whatsoever, we saw Kesler e.g., dominate the guy in the playoffs, and thats something he has yet to overcome. Crosby is a much more agitating player. On face-offs e.g., McD in his second year only took 806 draws with a 43.2% win rate, Sid in his 2nd year 1615 with a 51.3% win rate (and as improved since). McD's closer to Chaput than Crosby in this regard, with Chaput actually winning more draws. So for these two reasons I think we can't put McDavid in the same category as Sid or potentially Matthews, or make comparisons with the retired great's. I really feel like you have to be at least competent on draws to be in the same category as the greats. Sure he may end up scoring a lot of points, but unless you are a complete C I don't think the comparison with the great C's of the game are justified. They aren't the same style player. Mcdavid will put up more points than Crosby. Crosby is also longer in the tooth, and more battle tested. He has been through the ringer multiple times. Mcdavid is still a pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 minute ago, drummerboy said: They aren't the same style player. Mcdavid will put up more points than Crosby. Crosby is also longer in the tooth, and more battle tested. He has been through the ringer multiple times. Mcdavid is still a pup. maybe, maybe not. We'll see. But comparing them both on their 2nd year in Crosby is the better and more complete player. Matthews also had a far better rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I see where you're coming from, but McDavid still has time to improve those aspects of his game. People thought Crosby would be scoring mainly by assists, yet he's now won the Rocket Richard. Time will tell, but it will likely be at least a few years until Crosby isn't the clear cut best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
250Integra Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Master Mind said: I see where you're coming from, but McDavid still has time to improve those aspects of his game. People thought Crosby would be scoring mainly by assists, yet he's now won the Rocket Richard. Time will tell, but it will likely be at least a few years until Crosby isn't the clear cut best. He has won TWO Rocket Richard trophies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Controversial post: McDavid is already as good as Crosby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jägermeister said: Controversial post: McDavid is already as good as Crosby. prove it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 20 minutes ago, Xbox said: *What this post would say if Canucks drafted McDavid instead* Why McDavid is already better than Crosby at only 20, may even surpass Gretzky I'm not using homer-goggles, by the numbers in the two specific areas of face-offs and physical play he isn't as good as Sid was, and may never be. He was a liability on draws in the playoffs in fact (35%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: I'm not using homer-goggles, by the numbers in the two specific areas of face-offs and physical play he isn't as good as Sid was, and may never be. He was a liability on draws in the playoffs in fact (35%). When Crosby retires who do you think will be the best player in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägermeister Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: prove it He's overtaken him offensively (Art Ross winner by 11 points over Crosby last year), and is arguably the best skater in the NHL. I don't think Crosby is the same player he was 3 or 4 years ago anymore, he has taken a step back. And the Pens just lost 10-1 so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, Xbox said: When Crosby retires who do you think will be the best player in the league? It might be McD. It could very well be Matthews too, like I said AM's rookie campaign was pretty damn impressive and much more of a complete centreman game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 17 minutes ago, Jägermeister said: He's overtaken him offensively (Art Ross winner by 11 points over Crosby last year), and is arguably the best skater in the NHL. I don't think Crosby is the same player he was 3 or 4 years ago anymore, he has taken a step back. And the Pens just lost 10-1 so what? did McDavid score 121 points and 52 goals already? huh must have missed that one. I noticed you left out face-offs and physical play He's certainly the fastest skater in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickels Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 McDavid is already a better player than Crosby ever was...ask/listen to the players in the league. McDavid is with Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr as the most 4 most talented players to ever play the game. He has a little bit of each in him....he's faster than everyone(by a lot) like Orr was. He beats defenders 1 on 1 better than anyone since Lemieux and he sees the ice and passes like Gretzky. Time will tell where he ranks amongst these 4... No idea why people feel the need to put the guy down....seems like a great canadian kid to boot. A true hockey fan, would sit back and enjoy the show....who knows if/when another will come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Matthews also sucks on the face-off draw. I think Connor is a bit hyped personally, but still a generational talent in terms of pure offensive hockey- that Matthews is good at, but Connor is way better at. His defensive game may be lacking compared to Sid, but i remember Crosby, he came across far more as an arrogant, entitled 'dontcha-know how good i am gonna be' a$$hole in his early years. He's mellowed/grown up a lot but i used to hate is 'McEnroe-ish' attitude. Connor is far more chilled and respectable in that regard. At the end of the day, its nice to have a physical or fast, or such player but those are not necessary to the greatest player/best player debate. End of the day, what matters is how good you kill penalties and how well you score points. Thats it. So it matters not a jot,if Matthews is more physical than Connor or Crosby or any such. He who is a better point-getter, is a better offensive player and he who matches up more frequently with big teams PK, is the better PK-er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekey Pete Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Only thing I don`t like about McDavid is the team he plays for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 One thing that stands out to me is Crosby's attention to details of his game. Not only has he become a far more complete player in all areas of the ice....check out youtube. Its not just his goals and assists and dekes that make him legendary, but his edgework on his skates, his ability to deflect pucks in such a creative way, his strength on his backhand shot, his footwork, his ability to protect the puck, to freeze defenders. Sid's game has certainly evolved over time, and has incorporated being defensive conscientiousness, physical battles, and speed. even adding a nasty/dirty edge to his game to fend off being taken liberties upon. I've watched more and more Penguin's games as of late and seeing interviews, Crosby is internally motivated to want more, even when he has it all already. He is constantly finding areas to improve, which separates him from everyone essentially. Currently McDavid can expose his competition through using speed purely alone. Although this league is getting faster, currently McDavid's speed outweighs the rest, but eventually the league will catch up. Its up to Conner to evolve his game like Sid has. Conner is such a smart player and skillful guy that he probably could do all those things like Sid. But he is young and right now is currently using one mode to exploit. Just wait til he catches on to the rest of the stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 6 minutes ago, nickels said: McDavid is already a better player than Crosby ever was...ask/listen to the players in the league. McDavid is with Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr as the most 4 most talented players to ever play the game. He has a little bit of each in him....he's faster than everyone(by a lot) like Orr was. He beats defenders 1 on 1 better than anyone since Lemieux and he sees the ice and passes like Gretzky. Time will tell where he ranks amongst these 4... No idea why people feel the need to put the guy down....seems like a great canadian kid to boot. A true hockey fan, would sit back and enjoy the show....who knows if/when another will come along. who's "putting him down"? just pointing out some facts to date. He did not show that he was on par with those three in the playoffs either. Why say McD is "the best" when he hasn't been yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 minute ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said: One thing that stands out to me is Crosby's attention to details of his game. Not only has he become a far more complete player in all areas of the ice....check out youtube. Its not just his goals and assists and dekes that make him legendary, but his edgework on his skates, his ability to deflect pucks in such a creative way, his strength on his backhand shot, his footwork, his ability to protect the puck, to freeze defenders. Sid's game has certainly evolved over time, and has incorporated being defensive conscientiousness, physical battles, and speed. even adding a nasty/dirty edge to his game to fend off being taken liberties upon. I've watched more and more Penguin's games as of late and seeing interviews, Crosby is internally motivated to want more, even when he has it all already. He is constantly finding areas to improve, which separates him from everyone essentially. Currently McDavid can expose his competition through using speed purely alone. Although this league is getting faster, currently McDavid's speed outweighs the rest, but eventually the league will catch up. Its up to Conner to evolve his game like Sid has. Conner is such a smart player and skillful guy that he probably could do all those things like Sid. But he is young and right now is currently using one mode to exploit. Just wait til he catches on to the rest of the stuff. This is a great assessment. Sure maybe McD can evolve his game, but maybe not. Until then any sort of comments like "he's the best" are just fluff, outside of pure speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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