NewbieCanuckFan Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Crosby had the benefit of Malkin being on his team. Even though I think Malkin is a gutless puke (re: crosschecking Mitchell headfirst into the boards), I can't deny he's a legit HHOFer/franchise player. McDavid doesn't have the luxory of a Robin backing him up (he's got to carry the load himself). Excuse me while I wash my mouth with mouthwash as I pains me to give any kind of compliment to an Oiler or Malkin. This isn't to deny Crosby's greatness - only he didn't do it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 At this point I think it all depends on durability, that is what's going to separate the greats from the legends. One blown knee or a couple concussions and McJesus might need a benediction or two, as his game is predicated on speed. One more concussion for Crosby and his career might be over. I don't put much faith into the NHL protecting their stars, maybe they just don't protect stars that wear Vancouver across their chest, I don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Crosby had the benefit of Malkin being on his team. Even though I think Malkin is a gutless puke (re: crosschecking Mitchell headfirst into the boards), I can't deny he's a legit HHOFer/franchise player. McDavid doesn't have the luxory of a Robin backing him up (he's got to carry the load himself). Excuse me while I wash my mouth with mouthwash as I pains me to give any kind of compliment to an Oiler or Malkin. This isn't to deny Crosby's greatness - only he didn't do it alone. Draisatl is McD's Malkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Just now, Tre Mac said: At this point I think it all depends on durability, that is what's going to separate the greats from the legends. One blown knee or a couple concussions and McJesus might need a benediction or two, as his game is predicated on speed. One more concussion for Crosby and his career might be over. I don't put much faith into the NHL protecting their stars, maybe they just don't protect stars that wear Vancouver across their chest, I don't know... McDavid is brilliant. There is no denying that point. He, like you say, is dependent on speed. We should enjoy watching him now, because he's headed for serious knee trouble. It's not an if, it's a when. And I think it's going to be sooner than many think. These super fast dynamic puck carriers, who challenge d get knee injuries. It happened to Orr and Bure, and it will happen to McDavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tre Mac said: Draisatl is McD's Malkin Except for Malkin carries his own line, and carried the entire Pen's team when Crosby was out. Draisatl's success so far is tied to his playing on McDavid's wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Nirvanagut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Jägermeister said: Controversial post: McDavid is already as good as Crosby. Controversial post: Auston Matthews will be better than McDavid by next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 Interesting what Tanev has to say about it: “He’s the fastest in the league for sure,” Tanev tells TSN 1040. “If you’re flat-footed and you’re sitting there and he’s flying at you at 100 miles an hour, it makes your job pretty tough. That’s why all five guys need to be on the same page in our neutral zone forecheck when they have the puck. It’s a combination of us as defencemen and the centres trying to slow him down.” (http://www.tsn.ca/defending-mcdavid-canucks-draw-game-s-toughest-task-on-opening-night-1.877741) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 35 minutes ago, J.R. said: I'd probably take Crosby (especially if you equaled their ages) as the more complete and 'playoff' player... but holy @#$% can that McD kid skate. this kids not a bad skater either https://www.nhl.com/news/rasmus-dahlin-impresses-at-world-junior-summer-showcase-for-sweden/c-290602312 we don't have the talent ANA does but they did show how to control McD's speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: So another season and another giant drool bucket over McDavid... but with all the hype I can't shake the idea that he's actually not a complete player in the mould of e.g., Sid Crosby or potentially Austin Matthews. So flame away but here's my rationale for this: 1. McDavid is a very poor face-off C. 2. McDavid is not a physical player. He's no physical threat whatsoever, we saw Kesler e.g., dominate the guy in the playoffs, and thats something he has yet to overcome. Crosby is a much more agitating player. On face-offs e.g., McD in his second year only took 806 draws with a 43.2% win rate, Sid in his 2nd year 1615 with a 51.3% win rate (and as improved since). McD's closer to Chaput than Crosby in this regard, with Chaput actually winning more draws. So for these two reasons I think we can't put McDavid in the same category as Sid or potentially Matthews, or make comparisons with the retired great's. I really feel like you have to be at least competent on draws to be in the same category as the greats. Sure he may end up scoring a lot of points, but unless you are a complete C I don't think the comparison with the great C's of the game are justified. Only time will ever tell which one was the better player and even then there will be strong debate as there always has been with great players and fan opinions. I wouldn't even venture to make an educated guess at this point as to who will be the better player but it would take something more than the bolded part above to convince me that McDavid could never be the better player. Gretzky was as far from physical as you could get and was not very good at face-offs but I think most people would still rank him ahead of Crosby. We can all pull out statistics to support our positions as to who we think the better player is but I honestly don't know what the most significant individual numbers are. For example, McDavid was a +27 in his second year and Crosby was a +26 in his best season. Do McDavid supporters use this statistic to support their position? As of now, it would seem that the sampling of NHL players deem McDavid to be the most likely player to win the Hart and Art Ross trophies this year. I think that is a pretty clear indication of how McDavid's peers around the league view him. http://www.torontosun.com/2017/09/18/postmedia-players-poll-nhl-stars-expect-mcdavid-crosby-karlsson-to-dominate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoesRooster Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, zzbottom said: Plus McDavid looks like a 15 year old kid with bad skin. Not relevant to hockey but he looks like a child. He has a long ways to go before he's anywhere near Crosby's level. This whole "best since Gretzky" is complete rubbish. What the hell does his skin have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdean10 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: maybe, maybe not. We'll see. But comparing them both on their 2nd year in Crosby is the better and more complete player. Matthews also had a far better rookie year. No he didn't..McDavid was at over a point per game in his rookie year but he was injured and missed half the year. I personally think McDavid could be a better player than Crosby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: I'm not using homer-goggles, by the numbers in the two specific areas of face-offs and physical play he isn't as good as Sid was, and may never be. He was a liability on draws in the playoffs in fact (35%). You keep harping on the fact he had a mediocre playoff...he is a kid in his first series against Kesler and Getz two of the premier centers in the league. You also mentioned Chaput..now that's a world class troll job. He is the best young player in the league and has a chance to be one of the greatest ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 51 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: this kids not a bad skater either https://www.nhl.com/news/rasmus-dahlin-impresses-at-world-junior-summer-showcase-for-sweden/c-290602312 we don't have the talent ANA does but they did show how to control McD's speed. I doubt we'll be that lucky (Dahlin) but I'd be pretty satisfied with any of Merkley/Hughes/Boqvist too. But yeah it'd be fun just make future play by play guys have to call "Dahlin to Dahlen" plays frequently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 9 minutes ago, Rick Blight said: Only time will ever tell which one was the better player and even then there will be strong debate as there always has been with great players and fan opinions. I wouldn't even venture to make an educated guess at this point as to who will be the better player but it would take something more than the bolded part above to convince me that McDavid could never be the better player. Gretzky was as far from physical as you could get and was not very good at face-offs but I think most people would still rank him ahead of Crosby. We can all pull out statistics to support our positions as to who we think the better player is but I honestly don't know what the most significant individual numbers are. For example, McDavid was a +27 in his second year and Crosby was a +26 in his best season. Do McDavid supporters use this statistic to support their position? As of now, it would seem that the sampling of NHL players deem McDavid to be the most likely player to win the Hart and Art Ross trophies this year. I think that is a pretty clear indication of how McDavid's peers around the league view him. http://www.torontosun.com/2017/09/18/postmedia-players-poll-nhl-stars-expect-mcdavid-crosby-karlsson-to-dominate actually thats a very interesting poll - players think he will be he'll be the leagues most valuable player to his team, but also he doesn't show up as being expected for for most goals... there's as much data to date to suggest that McDavid will have some holes in his game as to suggest he's "the best". If a C isn't good on face-offs and isn't physical you don't think thats important to being the better player? really? Wayne's era was much different, the kind of protection he had is non-existent now and not sure you can really compare the two, its a much different style of game now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, ice orca said: You keep harping on the fact he had a mediocre playoff...he is a kid in his first series against Kesler and Getz two of the premier centers in the league. You also mentioned Chaput..now that's a world class troll job. He is the best young player in the league and has a chance to be one of the greatest ever. harping? ok. Sorry for pointing out reality to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, Justdean10 said: No he didn't ? Sid: 79 games, 36 goals, 120 pts McD: 82 games, 30 goals, 100 pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Stoch Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 cuz hes a oiler and they are suckiest bunch of suckkkks Jokes While Crosby might have an edge right now, McDavid can and will likely surpass him within a year or two. This is coming from me, the biggest Oilers hater, I wish nothing but failure for that scummy franchise but I won't deny that McDavid is really THAT good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: actually thats a very interesting poll - players think he will be he'll be the leagues most valuable player to his team, but also he doesn't show up as being expected for for most goals... there's as much data to date to suggest that McDavid will have some holes in his game as to suggest he's "the best". If a C isn't good on face-offs and isn't physical you don't think thats important to being the better player? really? Wayne's era was much different, the kind of protection he had is non-existent now and not sure you can really compare the two, its a much different style of game now. Like I said, I don't know who the better player will be but I can't rule anyone out based on face-offs and physicality. I don't think you are saying that Crosby is the best player in the NHL now because he is the most physical or the best at face-offs so there are obviously a number of other factors that enter into your opinion. NHLPA members voted the Ted Lindsay trophy "to the most outstanding player in the NHL," to McDavid in his second year......Crosby also won it in his 2nd year. The fact that their peers voted McDavid as the most outstanding player in the NHL over Crosby despite poorer face-off prowess and physicality says a lot to me. This is an argument/discussion that neither of us can ever win so I will now graciously bow out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdean10 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 29 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: ? Sid: 79 games, 36 goals, 120 pts McD: 82 games, 30 goals, 100 pts my bad, thought you said Mattews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Tre Mac said: Draisatl is McD's Malkin Maybe in the future - but that's for speculation. Malkin: Two Art Ross Trophies Calder Trophy Conn Smyth trophy Hart trophy Ted Linsday trophy Draisatl has won jack in the NHL so far. Draisatl ain't going to even win the Calder (Boeser will!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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