Ring of Honor: Bertuzzi or Burrows?

[Quantum]

Bertuzzi's lawsuit and the Steve Moore incident probably prevents him from ever getting ROH honors.

 

That said, Alex Burrows definitely deserves to be there. He may not have the same credentials that some of the ROH guys have but he's got one hell of a backstory (undrafted, clawed his way up to the NHL from the ECHL to become the heart and soul of a two time President's Trophy team that got 1 game away from the Stanley Cup in 2011 + was instrumental to a good portion of the Sedins point totals during their peak). Simply put, he was a pivotal part of several MAJOR moments in the Canucks history. It would be a true shame for him to be snubbed.

 

Jersey retirements are based on statistical achievement (I expect the Sedins and Luongo to get their Jerseys retired by the Canucks), ROH doesn't have to be. A heart and soul player like Alex Burrows deserves to be in the ROH.

 

FRANKLY -- If Ray Borque's number can be retired in COLORADO (and it is!), Burrows can be a ROH member in VANCOUVER.

[Cup2021]

I think Burrows, he was definitely a locker room presence. He may not have massive point totals, but the way he became an NHL player, the hard work and heart and soul should qualify IMO.

[Sbriggs]

9 hours ago, canuckels said:

It was stated on Sportsnet 650, that todd bertuzzi deserves a ring of honor spot over burrows, as he has done MORE for the organization. IMO that's ludacris, I don't take nothing away from the west coast express but overall it's not even close for me. Slaying the dragon, scoring the goal to sweep the blues, the heart, how hard he worked was far more impactful on the Canucks as an organization. So please humour me with some opinions.

 

Bertuzzi or Burrows for ROH....

Both.

[Gurn]

How many spots are left?

Kurtenbach 

McLean 

Gradin

Snepts 

Quinn 

Ohlund 

 

To me Burr makes it as the forward equivalent of Snepts, played a long time with heart, had many good years and a couple of excellent years, but were never the best player at their position in any year.

[Whaleroad Train]

I'm looking forward to the day they put the whole forward line in the ring of honour together - Burrows and the Sedin twins.

[g_bassi13]

11 hours ago, goalie13 said:

While I am a big fan of both, I don't think either of them should get that honour.

 

Look at the guys that are up there...

Kurtenbach - First captain

McLean - Franchise leader in several goaltending statistics

Gradin - Former highest scoring centre in franchise history

Snepts - Former franchise leader in games played and penalty minutes

Quinn - Won the 1992 Jack Adams Award

Ohlund - Highest scoring defensemen in franchise history

 

While Bert and Burr were a big part of the team for a long time, how do they compare to those kinds of qualifications?  The only team record I could find that either are credited with is Burr is tied with Adams for most playoff OT goals.  They were great Canucks, just not RoH great. 

Burrows is one of the Canucks that has more games played than Snepsts, if that's a qualification. If Snepsts gets in by being a heart and soul player, isn't that exactly what Burrows is?

 

The ring of Honour seems to be set up to be the small kind of gesture for players like him.

 

But I dunno. I'd at least have him in over Bertuzzi. The whole ring of Honour seems too low stakes to second guess and mull over, at least not until it feels like anybody and everybody is up there.

[goalie13]

5 minutes ago, g_bassi13 said:

Burrows is one of the Canucks that has more games played than Snepsts, if that's a qualification. If Snepsts gets in by being a heart and soul player, isn't that exactly what Burrows is?

 

The ring of Honour seems to be set up to be the small kind of gesture for players like him.

 

But I dunno. I'd at least have him in over Bertuzzi. The whole ring of Honour seems too low stakes to second guess and mull over, at least not until it feels like anybody and everybody is up there.

I agree with you on all points.  It's just that while Burrows is a great guy and a heart and soul player, can't you say that for plenty of other players?  How about Bieksa?  Maybe Cloutier?  Or Brodeur? What about Salo?  I think there are loads of players that gave everything they had to the organization while they are here.  But is that enough?

 

For the guys already in the RoH, I think it's the statistical accomplishments that sets them apart.  And I don't think passing a former franchise leader to be 6th all-time represents that kind of accomplishment.

 

I may be wrong.  It happens to me all the time.  I'm just trying to look past all the Burrows love and contribute my take.  But don't tell Deb.  She would probably ban me.  :D

[snucks]

Is Harold Snepts in the Ring of Honor yet ?

[867-five-309]

On 10/10/2017 at 9:29 AM, goalie13 said:

While I am a big fan of both, I don't think either of them should get that honour.

 

Look at the guys that are up there...

Kurtenbach - First captain

McLean - Franchise leader in several goaltending statistics

Gradin - Former highest scoring centre in franchise history

Snepts - Former franchise leader in games played and penalty minutes

Quinn - Won the 1992 Jack Adams Award

Ohlund - Highest scoring defensemen in franchise history

 

While Bert and Burr were a big part of the team for a long time, how do they compare to those kinds of qualifications?  The only team record I could find that either are credited with is Burr is tied with Adams for most playoff OT goals.  They were great Canucks, just not RoH great. 

 

 

I agree 100%. Clearly there are a lot of sentimental people here but you can't just throw every player up there.

[Noseforthenet]

I hate the mediocrity which Vancouver celebrates when it comes to hockey players and I think that is why the Ring of Honour is there. To celebrate players who have been great players for the team, but not good enough to be in the rafters. It's like the city is great about celebrating players which aren't good enough. There are many ways that players have made their mark on the organization. You have to ask yourselves: Does 5 years of great hockey with no appearance past the 2nd round merit anything? Many other players in the league have also done that and haven't been honoured with anything at all.

 

Burrows has played alot of heart and soul hockey for the team, which is more than can be said about Bertuzzi. That whole West Coast Express thing was just another way of celebrating mediocrity. We have Nazzy's Jersey in the rafters, when he should honestly have only gotten on the Ring of Honour, and that is simply because he was the franchise leader in points for a few seasons. Say what you want about Burr, but he gave us everything he had!!!

[ArkDepot]

I'm a huge fan, but it's called the Ring of Honor 

 

 

 

[Davathor]

Neither... or both. Obviously neither will have jerseys retired, just haven't accomplished enough. I'm actually leaning towards neither - Sedins are nearing the end of their careers and should be put into the RoH then jerseys retired a couple years after. I love Burr AND Bert, but you can't just put everyone up there. Where's the accomplishments?

[captainhorvat]

Im a big fan of Bert but no way in hell he deserves the roh. He had 3 really good seasons maybe 4 but he got injured in one of them. We never got past the the 2nd round with him and he has too much baggage with him.  Burrows has done way more for this organization thn Bert has. Its a no brainer.

[alt kilgore]

On 10/10/2017 at 8:01 AM, NorthWestNuck said:

Both Deserve it, but I believe Big Bert is already retired? Give it to him first, Burrows is concentrating on his time with the Sens. Let him enjoy his moment later...

 

...that said I would say Burrows deserves it more myself.

^this^

 

The Ring of Honour was made for a guy like Burrows.  I think some here are confusing the HHoF with one remote western franchises' own RoH. We're not talking jersey retirement either. Its meant to honour a player that has a uniquely great impact on the team in a positive way. That is Burr all day long. I suspect there would be an avalanche of hate mail if the Canucks ever announced that Burrows was NOT being considered for the RoH.

 

Bertuzzi barely makes it IMO, but he makes it. He had a clear impact on the team as part of one of the most lethal lines in their history. The "incident" was a 1 second mistake that in almost every other instance of a sucker punch, you get a one game suspension and it is a forgotten foot note to your career. It was mostly bad luck that players dog piled on top causing a fracture on Moore. If this was one in a series of bad "mistakes" causing injury then of course not. But it was one, count em one damn mistake, done for very altruistic reasons I might add. He who has not made a mistake in life cast the first bloody stone.

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

 

The Ring of Honour was made for a guy like Burrows. 

Then what does that make the Bure and Naslund banners? 

 

The Canucks have really set the bar low for accomplishments worthy of immortalizing. 

[Team Bagues]

Burrows over Bert;

but neither when compared to guys in there, and to two more guys called Hank & Dank soon to be added.

 

[GB5]

Just put the West Coast Express line in the ROH and you get three for one. 

 

Burrows deserves to be up there one day but he is still playing and I have a feeling that this team is not done with him. He will be back in some capacity once he is done playing. 

[alt kilgore]

14 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Then what does that make the Bure and Naslund banners? 

 

The Canucks have really set the bar low for accomplishments worthy of immortalizing. 

I'm not sure I understand your question.

 

What does that make those banners? I can only guess here but are you equating retiring a number as the same league as the RoH? I don't think you'd have many agreeing with you on that.

 

If anything, it elevates and separates those who make it to their numbers being retired, with someone like Burrows decidedly NOT eligible for that greater honour, along with guys like Quinn, Mclean, and Ohlund.  I'd say that the jersey retirement should be for those that also had great stats as well. Burrows had good numbers and was a part of the most successful line in Canucks history. Plus it wasn't all because of the Sedins because he potted many timely goals without their help (see...Dragonslayer). But even then, he doesn't deserve his number retired IMO. But he deserves the next best thing, surely.

[189lb enforcers?]

1 minute ago, kilgore said:

I'm not sure I understand your question.

 

What does that make those banners? I can only guess here but are you equating retiring a number as the same league as the RoH? I don't think you'd have many agreeing with you on that.

 

If anything, it elevates and separates those who make it to their numbers being retired, with someone like Burrows decidedly NOT eligible for that greater honour, along with guys like Quinn, Mclean, and Ohlund.  I'd say that the jersey retirement should be for those that also had great stats as well. Burrows had good numbers and was a part of the most successful line in Canucks history. Plus it wasn't all because of the Sedins because he potted many timely goals without their help (see...Dragonslayer). But even then, he doesn't deserve his number retired IMO. But he deserves the next best thing, surely.

Its an interesting discussion.

 

You're points are fine and I'm not disagreeing with most of what you state. 

 

How many posters wishing to see these two in the ROH are Millennials? - The demographic of folks who grew up in the Paricipation Ribbon recognition culture of celebrating all levels of achievement and effort. I ask this because this effort certainly has that feel to it. 

 

Naslund's number in the rafters reminds us just how low the bar is set for achievements for this organization. Once he beat a career grinder in Smyl and a very mediocre-numbers Linden, well, he just had to get up there. Well heck, if he's up there, Bure has to be too!

And on it goes.

It is what it is. The ROH is just an extension of this, but perhaps the best option for folks like the team's first captain, etc. The ROH should not serve as a catch-all for each era's fan favorites or it might as well just be called, Alumni Ring. This thread is hoping to dilute the spirit of the Ring and the task of the title altogether. 

 

My point?

Burrows, never mind his outstandingly poor on-ice antics and sportsmanship, has done very little to be put ahead of the likes of a Courtnall or Gelinas, etc. to be deserving of such a distinction. The guy was a pretty much a rat, hated by the league, not because he was so effective, but because he was an eyesore for the sport. This might be hard to hear because he was "our rat", but let's not pretend he didn't deserve his criticism.

 

Like buddy said a few posts back, it's called The Ring of Honor. Burrows and that word in the same sentence has probably only ever come up - in this thread. 

 

Burrows in the ring of honor is as close to an oxymoron as one could use, IMO. 

Bertuzzi, he did far less for the team overall, but probably more damage to the sweater than Burrows did. I think fans forget that this franchise might have been a loser for most of its existence, but this was a hard place to play and the team had respect right up until about when Linden retired and guys like Cooke and Burrows starting their sideshows here. I'd rather not be reminded of that kind of hockey when I look at the walls at the rink, but that's just one man's opinion. 

[CeeBee51]

15 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I think fans forget that this franchise might have been a loser for most of its existence, but this was a hard place to play and the team had respect right up until about when Linden retired and guys like Cooke and Burrows starting their sideshows here. I'd rather not be reminded of that kind of hockey when I look at the walls at the rink, but that's just one man's opinion. 

and Kesler and Lapierre to name a couple more.