[PGT] Calgary Flames vs. Vancouver Canucks

[Mustapha]

Just now, 250Integra said:

I'm getting tired of our 100 year old line. Can we put Granlund back with the Sedins please?

We can call it the 'Gran Line' : Two Grandpas and a Granlund.

[Canuck_In_Paradise]

A game of missed opportunities. Once Boeser scored, there was hope but then Marky let in another howler and you could see it was like taking a pin to a balloon: the whole team morale just sank.  I never like to put blame on one player, but we could have really used a big save or two from Marky tonight + absolutely ANYTHING from the powerplay (at least not conceding a f***ing SHG

 

Oh well, onto the next game. 

[DIBdaQUIB]

9 minutes ago, gameburn said:

I suspect that if we'd had the luck to draft better in the last 3 years (earlier picks, and better choices) we'd have enough good players that they would have retired with honours at the end of last year.  Only a very, very, bad team has these guys on a second or third line, and leading pps.  With that contrast, they'd have known their time was up.

 

Remember a few years back when A-Rod got tossed from the Yankees before the season was out?  The manager was quoted as saying, "we are not in the business of supplying anyone with a retirement tour."  This year is shaping up to look a lot like that, but we have two A-Rods.  Notably, the Yankees got younger faster.  Look where they are now.  Serious sports franchises do this.

But the Sedins will be Canucks as long as they want to be.  Such a statement sets the tone for the rest of the team to know that management is not serious about winning now.

[gameburn]

12 minutes ago, Lui's Knob said:

This team is a heap

of garbage - playing with no purpose. Watching molasses in Vanek and the Sedins. 4 garbage years with management - flubbed picks with OJ and Virtanen makes a huge difference. 

 

Where was Horvat all game? One trick pony but cannot lead the play. Boeser with your best shot and they take him off the brutal PP? Why did we rehire Brown again? How does a goalie as big as Markstrom let so many goals through him? Bad Gillis trade for Luongo. Never will be a top tier goalie. 

 

Bottom line - we are in for another bad year and lose the draft lottery. We are the mid 2000‘s flames - heading nowhere but mediocrity.

 

Benning and co will have to be fired midseason if this product continues. 

I would have disagreed hugely with you last year at this time -- maybe even this summer.   But I have to say... this year is different.  A lot of the previous 4 years failings are playing out now.  (1) Did not move Sedins for picks. (2) Did not find a way to move Edler (he's either giving away the puck or injured.)  (3) Picked Virtanen over playmakers like Ehlers and Nylander, knowing that the Sedins would have to be replaced.  With luck we could have picked Virt. up in the second round anyway.  (4) Signed over-the-hill UFAs like Eriksson, Vrbata, Gagner, Miller and Vanek in order to compete, or in order to create a winning atmosphere for their wonderful prospects (the explanation keeps changing.)

[WestCoast5347]

10 minutes ago, khay said:

I think at this point, Green probably realizes that he doesn't have many horses to compete against the rest of the NHL. The sad thing is that he doesn't even have enough defensive players to play a shutdown game. So, if I were Green, I would focus my efforts this season to establishing chemistry and lines that I can use into the next seasons. 

 

First, play the youth. There are 4 players on this team that are under 25 and are top 6 caliber: Horvat, Granlund, Baertschi, Boeser. And Virtanen is on the borderline. He is not a top 6 yet, but he could be and that's the decision that Green has to make, whether or not to groom Virtanen into a top 6 player or as a bottom 6 player.  I would personally try to groom Virtanen as a top 6 player and if that is the decision that is made, then the next decision is either to play him like a top 6 here or in the AHL. Among the older players (not counting the Sedins), only Eriksson is being paid as a top 6 player and he is here for the next 5 years. So if I were Green, I would do my best to form lines out of these 5 + Virtanen (depending on what he decided to do with Virtanen).

 

It goes without saying that the two centre pieces on this team are Horvat and Boeser. I think we need to build two lines around them. Before, I thought Horvat-Boeser would be a good idea but it became clear to me that they wouldn't work so well. The reason is because Boeser is good at finding a shooting position, and yet, Horvat will drive the net 9/10 times he has the puck on his stick. Horvat needs a player who can finish around the net, the "garbage collector", or a player that can drive the net with him so that Horvat can finish the garbage around the net. On the contrary, Boeser needs players that can make plays and get the puck to him when he is in a shooting position for a snipe.

 

Horvat:

 

Horvat is an offensively minded player but he is a north-south player without good ability to play the cycle game or the half court offence. The best way to make use of him is to surround him with another north-south player and a player that knows how to finish around the net. Now, Virtanen is yet another north-south player and Eriksson is a player who has shown in the past that he knows how to finish around the net.

 

2A: Virtanen-Horvat-Eriksson.

 

Boeser:

 

Among the young players, only Baertschi and Gralund can be qualified as playmakers. I would pair them together, and put Boeser, player that knows how to snipe in the slot, a player who can benefit from playmaking of Baertschi and Granlund on their wing. 

 

2B: Baertschi-Granlund-Boeser.

 

Of course, we don't have a first line so I labelled these two lines as 2A and 2B. Neither of these lines measure up well against the other team's best lines so they will get scored on quite a lot, but that's not the point. The point is to allow them to grow into their roles by playing them in the roles that you want them to be in. 

 

The rest:

 

The remaining players are Daniel, Henrik, Vanek, Gagner, Burmistrov, Sutter, and Dorsett. The best way to make use of these players is as providing some sort of shelter or buffer for the 2A and 2B lines. It is clear that Sedins can still hold their own. It is also clear that Sutter and Dorsett can be useful for match up purposes. That leaves Vanek, Gagner, Burmistrov. Personally, I think Burmistrov is an intelligent player and can be useful in a checking role alongside Sutter and Dorsett. And that means I would play only one of Vanek or Gagner at a time.

 

3A: Sedin-Sedin-Vanek/Gagner

3B: Burmistrov-Sutter-Dorsett

 

Now, if the decision is to groom Virtanen in a top 6 role in the AHL, then Gagner would slot in beside Horvat-Eriksson. 

 

The focus has to be on the future. This team does not have what it takes on defence for one, to compete for the playoffs, let alone up front. I was very wrong in my initial assessment based on preseason play.

 

 

Great post. I was really thinking the same thing about Horvat. Bo is such a North south guy and he needs somebody else to go up with him especially against better teams. I think you are on the right track saying Bo should be with Virt and and Eriksson. I think Baer when on his game can do well with bo as well but they need another driving force with them.

 

My ideal lines if Eriksson is out for a bit 

Goldy Horvat Virtanen  (Size,speed)

Baer Granlund Boeser  (skill, snipes)

Sedins Vanek (Sedin stuff)

Gags Sutter Dorsett (I don't know)

Burm (Rover) 

 

[clam linguine]

34 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

Yes, they have to be told they won't be back next season. Benning has to grab control of this thing or walk away to let someone else take a shot. Nice guys finish last. 

 

25 minutes ago, Mustapha said:

If there was ever a phrase to describe the Sedins, this would be it. 

 

On 12/21/2015 at 10:23 AM, clam linguine said:

 

Here's a newsflash....they are the problem.  Nice guys finish last, and that's what they are.  What are they going to teach the young guys other than how to get their asses kicked. They aren't going to teach them how to play hockey because they play a crazy game with Chinese water torture tactics that suits only themselves.  

Then there is the fact that they only play with each other.  Watch and learn boys...ya right.   

How nice it would be to see them gone at the deadline to a marginal playoff team for a couple first rounders.

So maybe it's safe for me to start posting on the main board again?      lol......nah

[guntrix]

5 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

The team signed Vanek, Gagner and Burmistrov .... three guys who couldn't get a sniff from a competitive team. Those guys know they're not here to win. They've already mentally mailed it in. They did so before training camp even started. 

Why is Gagner always lumped up with the rest of the scapegoats? 403 points in 699 games and in his prime. He scored 50 points last season with the Jackets. 

 

He is part of the solution but it's hard for a playmaker to put up points when the team is struggling to score.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Another side is that they still soak up a lot of criticism from fans and media - people turning on Hutton in year 3 and I read some digs at Bo tonight in the GDT.  

They aren't that good anymore. No one is "turning on" Hutton, he hasn't been very good. Fact. 

 

Anyone turning on Bo is an idiot. 

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

 

There's a purpose.  

 

If Bo and one of Granny/Burmistrov/Gagner can prove they can centre a proper 2nd line I say the Sedins retire.  If they put up 50-ish points and nobody else steps up I think they're back for one more until Petterson arrives.

Bo has proven to be the heir apparent. Bennig just needs to actually get him worthy linemates. Boeser is great, Baertschi is not. Time for Sven to go to his next NHL project team. 

[ilduce39]

6 minutes ago, Mustapha said:

I am just tired of the style this team plays - slow, predictable mostly perimeter play. They can't move the puck quickly, even with a 2 man advantage.

 

The Sedin cycle game doesn't work anymore - they aren't tough enough on the boards any longer and bigger players literally ragdoll them to the ice. 

 

There is no stud on defense....and Edler has been underperfoming for several years now, to the point where it's easier just to keep him than be embarrassed by trading him away for a bag of pucks. 

 

The hilarity of how bad this team is shows up when you see that two of the Canucks so-called 'top players' in Eriksson and Edler are injured, and yet, the team probably isn't any worse as a result. 

 

The 'young guns' in Baertschi and Granlund aren't really that young anymore, and they aren't doing a hell of a lot offensively. Not that it's entirely their fault - every player that gets involved with the Canucks ends up in a black hole void of any offense or passionate play.

 

FFS, 37 year old Ryan Miller would rather be a backup goaltender on another team for chump change than play in Vancouver again - and you can bet he was offered the job.

 

Sure, there are a few good players on this team...Horvat and Boeser come to mind...but it won't be long before the losing culture infects their game as well. I don't think this team will turn their performance around any time soon, rather they will be a free two points for any decent team that comes in and puts in an effort.

I'll play the contrarian tonight I guess.

 

Just 4 games but tonight was the worst game by far - Edler and Loui's loss was definitely felt.  How is the team not worse without them?  Because you don't like the style they play?  They're career B+ players who still bring above-average play.

 

Then you just write off poor play from younger players (who have top ice time this year - and ended last year with it)...with what I assume is an underhanded dig at leadership?  

 

If the Sedins are as passive as you say you'd think the youth could emerge from their shadow pretty easily wouldn't you think?  

 

Its just one big false narrative.

[canucklehead80]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm not sure how you can continue with that PP.... the Sedins are just too easy to predict now 

NOW????

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[DollarAndADream]

Horvat's PP unit should be PP1 from now on if Sedins can't get anything going the first couple of times.

 

Man, that PP looked bad. Soooo many chances to try and win this game.

[Mustapha]

1 minute ago, guntrix said:

Why is Gagner always lumped up with the rest of the scapegoats? 403 points in 699 games and in his prime. He scored 50 points last season with the Jackets. 

 

He is part of the solution but it's hard for a playmaker to put up points when the team is struggling to score.

Gagner is a PP guy, and that's fine..the problem is the Canucks have such a terrible PP that one guy isn't going to fix all the problems.

 

Gagner's production will take a major hit because this team is allergic to goal scoring.

[Jack Fig]

3 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Why is Gagner always lumped up with the rest of the scapegoats? 403 points in 699 games and in his prime. He scored 50 points last season with the Jackets. 

 

He is part of the solution but it's hard for a playmaker to put up points when the team is struggling to score.

Soft player, not a winner, never even scored 20 in a season. Limitations galore. 

[mooby]

[guntrix]

Just now, Jack Fig said:

Soft player, not a winner, never even scored 20 in a season. Limitations galore. 

Would make sense that he hasn't scored 20 in a season considering he's a playmaker, not a goal scorer. 

[Jack Fig]

4 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Should've. I'm convinced. 

[Kakanucks]

4 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

Horvat's PP unit should be PP1 from now on if Sedins can't get anything going the first couple of times.

 

Man, that PP looked bad. Soooo many chances to try and win this game.

PP2 hasn’t done $&!# all either.

 

Back to the drawing board for both units.

[ilduce39]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

They aren't that good anymore. No one is "turning on" Hutton, he hasn't been very good. Fact. 

 

Anyone turning on Bo is an idiot. 

Bo has proven to be the heir apparent. Bennig just needs to actually get him worthy linemates. Boeser is great, Baertschi is not. Time for Sven to go to his next NHL project team. 

But that's kind of the point - the whole team isn't quite good enough and multiple players are forced to fight above their weight class - making them look worse than they are.  

 

I know it hasn't been your schitck but people say they want "kids" but Hutton's still young and he's been bad.  They don't want "kids" they want good kids who are ready to carry a team and we don't have them yet.

 

We need a real top line / top forward and a real top pairing / top defender.  I have faith in Bo and Brock as well.. hope they can make it happen. The trickle down effect will make everyone look better and banish the weak links off the roster.  

[Apples]

Tank time!