Expiring CBA and It's impact on the Canucks (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

I will begin by posting the CBA expiration dates.................This is Dedicated to "The Guardian", who it seems has continually brought up the subject throughout my search checks for this issue........I think it has value for discussion and it's impact on any decisions the Canucks make going forward...............

 

This CBA is a 10-year agreement, but both can choose to opt out after 8 years. The NHL will have first crack to do so by Sept. 1, 2019. If they decline, the NHLPA can decide to opt out by Sept. 19, 2019. The 10-year deal expires Sept. 15, 2022. .............pulled from Yahoo Sports

 

First off.......I think that the NHL will call for an new agreement on Sept. 1, 2019

 

#1.......I also think that is when the NHL will move the draft age........... from 18 on or before September 15th ........to......... 19 on or before September 15th

 

Entry Draft Eligibility
All players age 19 or older [(i) any player who will be age 18 on or before September 15 in the year in which such Entry Draft is held, or (ii) reaches his 19th birthday between September 16 and December 31, both dates included, next following Entry Draft, can attain eligibility by delivering to the League a written notice (Opt in Form) prior to the later of May 1, or seven days following the date such player finishes competing on his team in the year in which such draft is to be held.] are eligible for claim in the Entry Draft, except:
(i) A Player on the Reserve List of a Club, other than as a try-out;
(ii) A player who has been claimed in two prior Entry Drafts;
(iii) A player who previously played in the League and became a free agent pursuant to the Collective Bargaining Agreement;
(iv) A plyer age 21 or older who had played hockey for at least one season in North America when he was age 18, 19 or 20.............pulled from nhl.com "operating guidelines"

 

#2.......In addition, I believe that there will be an adjustment on the NCAA rule regarding when a drafted NCAA player can become a UFA..........I believe they will also move this up one year, where a player must wait an additional year after his 4th year before coming a UFA................. effectively closing the loophole for NCAA players

 

I believe there will be other cap and revenue sharing items as well, but for the sake of my concerns and how this will impact the Canucks rebuild, I think the first 2 items are important in how the Canucks proceed..........

 

This is a small part of what "The Guardian" has been pointing at..........as this affects the Canucks, it will affect other NHL teams, in how they trade in these next 2 years, and how they swap picks going into the negotiation years.

 

This is what Benning must plan for the best he can...................

 

My question is, does this mean, do we move veterans this year (as much as possible) or next year (as much as possible)?

 

How I read this is that the June, 2020 draft will be extremely weak if what I suggest happens.................I also feel that, that will be the year that the NHL expands (after the negotiations), when the new team would know what the new rules were (watch out for even less player protection, if expansion happen at that time, because the draft will not be that strong) so the expansion teams base will have to come from the league, rather than the draft, which happened to some degree with the Vegas entry...........

 

I don't know if this will interest you, but I think the Guardian make good points when referring to the "NEW" CBA and what might come out of it.

 

Thoughts????.......................

 

Hey, it's Saturday, it's snowing, I am baby sitting my wife, and I have a cold!............and I am waiting for the game!

 

 

 

[Alflives]

Hey, nice OP

i think the NHL locks out the players at their first opportunity.  The league is not increasing revenue for the Cap to significantly increase.  In fact, escrow of 14% means the Cap is really in the 60 million range.  

We should trade our vets for picks, regardless.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Hey, nice OP

i think the NHL locks out the players at their first opportunity.  The league is not increasing revenue for the Cap to significantly increase.  In fact, escrow of 14% means the Cap is really in the 60 million range.  

We should trade our vets for picks, regardless.

Yes Alfie

 

This is what I get out of it also.......do you remember how many vets never made it back into the line up after the last CBA strike? As memory serves me, it was quite a few....moving vets now serves many purposes...........??? I think there will be some panic next year throughout the league on this issue......

[J.I.A.H.N]

But that is ok, Alfie.......we'll still have Eriksson! lol

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

Yes Alfie

 

This is what I get out of it also.......do you remember how many vets never made it back into the line up after the last CBA strike? As memory serves me, it was quite a few....moving vets now serves many purposes...........??? I think there will be some panic next year throughout the league on this issue......

That’s a good point, about the vets losing jobs.  Best to get the jump on the rest.

[HC20.0]

I'll be interested to see if they tweak anything regarding the horrible cap-recapture penalty, or  if the NHL (hopefully) just decides to scrap it all together. Teams like Chicago (Hossa) are starting to figure out ways around the cap recapture. I'm

hoping it's scrapped because it's about to bite us in the butt fairly soon, but that's just wishful thinking...

 

At the very least, the NHL should really look at teams usage of the LTIR. Chicago and Toronto are just abusing it at this point.

[higgyfan]

42 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Yes Alfie

 

This is what I get out of it also.......do you remember how many vets never made it back into the line up after the last CBA strike? As memory serves me, it was quite a few....moving vets now serves many purposes...........??? I think there will be some panic next year throughout the league on this issue......

The Canucks can have themselves in a good situation by then as most of their vets contracts are running out within the next 2 seasons.  The only one's remaining are Gagner 2020 + no NTC, Sutter modified NTC kicks in 2019, Eriksson Modified NTC kicks in 2020 and salary reduction starts 2019.    I can see a Sutter trade at deadline 2019;  Gagner can be traded or waived at any time and Eriksson...he just has to start playing well.  I don't think Tanev will still be around in 2 seasons.  So that's it.  As long as JB doesn't re-sign any of the others, the team is in good shape.

[King Heffy]

What would make sense is incremental changes in the draft year.  Say moving it 6 months one year and 6 months another.

[J.I.A.H.N]

39 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

The Canucks can have themselves in a good situation by then as most of their vets contracts are running out within the next 2 seasons.  The only one's remaining are Gagner 2020 + no NTC, Sutter modified NTC kicks in 2019, Eriksson Modified NTC kicks in 2020 and salary reduction starts 2019.    I can see a Sutter trade at deadline 2019;  Gagner can be traded or waived at any time and Eriksson...he just has to start playing well.  I don't think Tanev will still be around in 2 seasons.  So that's it.  As long as JB doesn't re-sign any of the others, the team is in good shape.

Higgy

 

You're the voice of reason compared to me, but when I look at all the scenario's, I feel that it falls into my plans of moving vets now, instead of next year or letting their contracts just run out.

 

To me, there are older teams, that their windows are now, and they will be dropping in several years, so as I see them as teams to trade to........albeit, maybe with lesser returns in some cases, but if we list our vets and their contract expirations.....it seems reasonable to move them now...despite the resulting loss of points........we still may be just as competitive anyways

 

My hit list is Edler, Vanek, Markstrom, Baertschi, Gagner, Del Dotto, Dorsett and Sutter

 

I am not suggesting moving all of them, but my reasoning is..........................................highlites = contract year

 

2017 - 2018.......................Edler 31, Vanek 33, Markstrom 27, Baertschi 25, Gagner 28, Dorsett 30, Del Zotto 27, and Sutter 28

2018 - 2019.......................Edler 32, Vanek 34, Markstrom 28, Baertschi 26, Gagner 29, Dorsett 31, Del Zotto 28, and Sutter 29

2019 - 2020.......................Edler 33, Vanek 35, Markstrom 29, Baertschi 27, Gagner 30, Dorsett 32, Del Zotto 29, and Sutter 30     Lockout

2020 - 2021.......................Edler 34, Vanek 36, Markstrom 30, Baertschi 28, Gagner 31, Dorsett 33, Del Zotto 30, and Sutter 31

 

2017 - 2018.......................Demko 21                Nilsson 27

2018 - 2019.......................Demko 22                Nilsson 28

2019 - 2020.......................Demko 23                Nilsson 29

2020 - 2021.......................Demko 24                Nilsson 30

 

2017 - 2018........................Here we are...............sell, sell, sell................draft, draft, draft!

2018 - 2019........................panic year around NHL.........Team positioning for lock out...........aging assets sell cheap

2019 - 2020........................contract year.............Lock out

2020 - 2021........................Draft moves up one year...........weak draft......should have sold earlier

 

Now the reason for including Baertschi is that there are 7 LW prospect behind him at present..........

Dahlen, Goldoblin, Gaunce, Gadjovich, Molino, Boucher, Rodin, .............8 including Pettersson............Baertschi is expendable for the right price

 

Vanek is out after this year

 

It should be either Markstrom who right now carries the best value or Nilsson, who I am feeling is the better goalie

 

Gagner is just expendable

 

Dorsett...........what is there not to love about him.............he'll bring in everything Burrows or Hansen did

 

Del Zotto.............I like him over Edler.............Can't trade both...........resign him if possible

 

Sutter..............I don't really want to trade him, but a defensive center that can win Face Offs..............

 

Yes, I would like to move some...not all..................but the question remains.............how will the NEW CBA affect us? Short term and long term.............

 

Do not take these as trades..................more so questions...............I am hoping you guys can put your 5 cents worth in too!......A little scattered! Sorry

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

What would make sense is incremental changes in the draft year.  Say moving it 6 months one year and 6 months another.

I was thinking that way, until I started thinking about the new contract, but it makes too much sense to do it all at once in a lockout year...............maybe?

[King Heffy]

Just now, janisahockeynut said:

I was thinking that way, until I started thinking about the new contract, but it makes too much sense to do it all at once in a lockout year...............maybe?

Yeah unfortunately Bettman isn't known for doing things that make sense.   I'll be shocked if that pitiful little weasel doesn't cause another season to be cancelled due to his complete inability to impersonate an adult.  I've never seen any league's commissioner with such a blatant disregard for their sport.

[Where's Wellwood]

19 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I am not suggesting moving all of them, but my reasoning is..........................................highlites = contract year

 

2017 - 2018.......................Edler 31, Vanek 33, Markstrom 27, Baertschi 25, Gagner 28, Dorsett 30, Del Zotto 27, and Sutter 28

2018 - 2019.......................Edler 32, Vanek 34, Markstrom 28, Baertschi 26, Gagner 29, Dorsett 31, Del Zotto 28, and Sutter 29

2019 - 2020.......................Edler 33, Vanek 35, Markstrom 29, Baertschi 27, Gagner 30, Dorsett 32, Del Zotto 29, and Sutter 30     Lockout

2020 - 2021.......................Edler 34, Vanek 36, Markstrom 30, Baertschi 28, Gagner 31, Dorsett 33, Del Zotto 30, and Sutter 31

 

2017 - 2018.......................Demko 21                Nilsson 27

2018 - 2019.......................Demko 22                Nilsson 28

2019 - 2020.......................Demko 23                Nilsson 29

2020 - 2021.......................Demko 24                Nilsson 30

 

2017 - 2018........................Here we are...............sell, sell, sell................draft, draft, draft!

2018 - 2019........................panic year around NHL.........Team positioning for lock out...........aging assets sell cheap

2019 - 2020........................contract year.............Lock out

2020 - 2021........................Draft moves up one year...........weak draft......should have sold earlier

 

Now the reason for including Baertschi is that there are 7 LW prospect behind him at present..........

Dahlen, Goldoblin, Gaunce, Gadjovich, Molino, Boucher, Rodin, .............8 including Pettersson............Baertschi is expendable for the right price

We hope Pettersson can play C. 

Gaunce will be bottom 6 whether he plays wing or C so doesn't effect competition for Baer.

Rodin, Boucher, Molino are long shots to stay in the NHL consistently

Gadjovich was just drafted and is a long way off.

 

Dahlen and Goldy are the only viable replacements for Baer if we trade/don't resign of the ones you listed. Dahlen will likely end this season in the SHL. I'd want him to have a year in the AHL (possibly with Pettersson). I think re-signing Baer to another 1-2 year deal on the cheap wouldn't be too bad.

[J.I.A.H.N]

47 minutes ago, Where's Wellwood said:

We hope Pettersson can play C. 

Gaunce will be bottom 6 whether he plays wing or C so doesn't effect competition for Baer.

Rodin, Boucher, Molino are long shots to stay in the NHL consistently

Gadjovich was just drafted and is a long way off.

 

Dahlen and Goldy are the only viable replacements for Baer if we trade/don't resign of the ones you listed. Dahlen will likely end this season in the SHL. I'd want him to have a year in the AHL (possibly with Pettersson). I think re-signing Baer to another 1-2 year deal on the cheap wouldn't be too bad.

Yup.....I can't disagree with a thing you said.......kind of felt that way myself

 

We can't afford to get rid of everyone, and Baer does make his own case.........

 

So who do get rid of and who stays?

 

Does this new CBA have any change to your thoughts?

 

Just on the Pettersson thing..............."IF" Gaudette does sign and show he is a first liner.......what does that do to your thinking?

 

LW............Petterson, Goldoblin, Dahlen  and Baertschi.............Gadjovich and Gaunce...........interesting!..........Imagine if we got 2nd OA........LOL

 

I don't think we are going to miss Danny

[higgyfan]

2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Higgy

 

You're the voice of reason compared to me, but when I look at all the scenario's, I feel that it falls into my plans of moving vets now, instead of next year or letting their contracts just run out.

 

To me, there are older teams, that their windows are now, and they will be dropping in several years, so as I see them as teams to trade to........albeit, maybe with lesser returns in some cases, but if we list our vets and their contract expirations.....it seems reasonable to move them now...despite the resulting loss of points........we still may be just as competitive anyways

 

My hit list is Edler, Vanek, Markstrom, Baertschi, Gagner, Del Dotto, Dorsett and Sutter

 

I am not suggesting moving all of them, but my reasoning is..........................................highlites = contract year

 

2017 - 2018.......................Edler 31, Vanek 33, Markstrom 27, Baertschi 25, Gagner 28, Dorsett 30, Del Zotto 27, and Sutter 28

2018 - 2019.......................Edler 32, Vanek 34, Markstrom 28, Baertschi 26, Gagner 29, Dorsett 31, Del Zotto 28, and Sutter 29

2019 - 2020.......................Edler 33, Vanek 35, Markstrom 29, Baertschi 27, Gagner 30, Dorsett 32, Del Zotto 29, and Sutter 30     Lockout

2020 - 2021.......................Edler 34, Vanek 36, Markstrom 30, Baertschi 28, Gagner 31, Dorsett 33, Del Zotto 30, and Sutter 31

 

2017 - 2018.......................Demko 21                Nilsson 27

2018 - 2019.......................Demko 22                Nilsson 28

2019 - 2020.......................Demko 23                Nilsson 29

2020 - 2021.......................Demko 24                Nilsson 30

 

2017 - 2018........................Here we are...............sell, sell, sell................draft, draft, draft!

2018 - 2019........................panic year around NHL.........Team positioning for lock out...........aging assets sell cheap

2019 - 2020........................contract year.............Lock out

2020 - 2021........................Draft moves up one year...........weak draft......should have sold earlier

 

Now the reason for including Baertschi is that there are 7 LW prospect behind him at present..........

Dahlen, Goldoblin, Gaunce, Gadjovich, Molino, Boucher, Rodin, .............8 including Pettersson............Baertschi is expendable for the right price

 

Vanek is out after this year

 

It should be either Markstrom who right now carries the best value or Nilsson, who I am feeling is the better goalie

 

Gagner is just expendable

 

Dorsett...........what is there not to love about him.............he'll bring in everything Burrows or Hansen did

 

Del Zotto.............I like him over Edler.............Can't trade both...........resign him if possible

 

Sutter..............I don't really want to trade him, but a defensive center that can win Face Offs..............

 

Yes, I would like to move some...not all..................but the question remains.............how will the NEW CBA affect us? Short term and long term.............

 

Do not take these as trades..................more so questions...............I am hoping you guys can put your 5 cents worth in too!......A little scattered! Sorry

Absolutely, Janis.  I fully expect JB to move the vets as they come up to their final years.  I was just commenting on the players that will still be under contract coming up to the CBA year.  I was assuming that the others (whose contract run out before the CBA year would be traded whenever possible.  Except for the Sedins.  I think they will just retire.

 

Bye the time season 2019/20 roles around, our vest will be Bo, Virt, Granlund, Hutton, Stetcher, Boeser, etc.  Well, you get my drift.  It's all good.

[higgyfan]

34 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Absolutely, Janis.  I fully expect JB to move the vets as they come up to their final years.  I was just commenting on the players that will still be under contract coming up to the CBA year.  I was assuming that the others (whose contract run out before the CBA year would be traded whenever possible.  Except for the Sedins.  I think they will just retire.

 

Bye the time season 2019/20 roles around, our vest will be Bo, Virt, Granlund, Hutton, Stetcher, Boeser, etc.  Well, you get my drift.  It's all good.

One too many beers right there.lol

[Where's Wellwood]

2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Yup.....I can't disagree with a thing you said.......kind of felt that way myself

 

We can't afford to get rid of everyone, and Baer does make his own case.........

 

So who do get rid of and who stays?

 

Does this new CBA have any change to your thoughts?

 

Just on the Pettersson thing..............."IF" Gaudette does sign and show he is a first liner.......what does that do to your thinking?

 

LW............Petterson, Goldoblin, Dahlen  and Baertschi.............Gadjovich and Gaunce...........interesting!..........Imagine if we got 2nd OA........LOL

 

I don't think we are going to miss Danny

I think Gaudette will sign but his ceiling is TBD. If he transitions to the NHL like Boeser has, then he's a first liner but being a first line C is harder than being a first line wing. I think Gaudette's a very successful 5th round pick if he's an offensive third line centre. I think Gadjovich may end up a very solid 3rd line wing but he won't drive offence the same way Boeser does from the wing.

 

I think Benning's done a very good job of drafting different types of players.

[dayner]

2020-2021 starting forwards

Dahlen-Petterson-Boeser

Goldobin-Horvat-Lind

Gadjovich-Gaudette-Virtanen

Gaunce-Sutter-Lockwood

 

Could be looking good

[J.I.A.H.N]

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎04 at 9:54 PM, dayner said:

2020-2021 starting forwards

Dahlen-Petterson-Boeser

Goldobin-Horvat-Lind

Gadjovich-Gaudette-Virtanen

Gaunce-Sutter-Lockwood

 

Could be looking good

Well that is what it is starting to look like, but what did you do with our current players?

 

Hank - retired

Dank - retired

Eriksson?

Granlund ?

Baertschi ?

Sutter?

Vanek ?

Burnistrov ?

Dorsett ?

 

But, the start of the 2019 - 2020 season is the start of negotiations for the new NHL collective agreement

 

So, are you going to start moving some of these players or just let them walk, because there is a good chance there will be a lock out that year....it is a risk!

 

PS...........Not all our prospect will turn out..........statistically speaking 

[dayner]

9 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well that is what it is starting to look like, but what did you do with our current players?

 

Hank - retired

Dank - retired

Eriksson?

Granlund ?

Baertschi ?

Vanek ?

Burnistrov ?

Dorsett ?

 

But, the start of the 2019 - 2020 season is the start of negotiations for the new NHL collective agreement

 

So, are you going to start moving some of these players or just let them walk, because there is a good chance there will be a lock out that year....it is a risk!

 

PS...........Not all our prospect will turn out..........statistically speaking 

You are right about the prospects not always turning out.

 

I do worry about gadjovich. His foot speed is a little suspect among other things as well.

 

I have never been fully sold on Bar, yesterday's game was pretty good for him but I find he is wildly inconsistent and if you have a chance to move him for a return that is greater than what you paid for him then I would do it.

 

Eriksson will move from a NMC to a NTC, I thought he moves further to a M-NTC (15 teams) in 2019 but it's actually 2020. The man hasn't been given a fair shake that's for sure but I don't know if I see it working out long term. He looks slow on outr faster lines and he looks slow on our slower lines. Putting him with the Sedins now only seems like a 1 year option as they are looking like they will be leaning towards retirement at the end of this year.

 

As for the rest. Maximize the value of Vanek, Bur, DD and even Granlund (he's versatility could be traded for a premium price).

 

CBA will be a good fight again this time around. With that though i don't think there will be a lockout this time but that's just my opinion.

[cripplereh]

I think by the time we have the CBA there will be the newest team and Betty does not want to bring in a new team and then have it sit.

 

I really think like before they will stay with what we have for a year and get something done or Betty will be replaced as owners want to make money.