[Signing] Turris signs with NSH for 6 years 6 mil AAV

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Don't start this in this thread now too!

 

Haha I think it's safe to say the plan has change, we when from a quick retool to a rebuild, even Jimmy seems to agree with that.

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

As of yet, Eriksson's contract hasn't hindered the rebuild at all (might have helped it with his play last year in fact!  ). With the twins retiring (IMO), he shouldn't have a detrimental effect next year either.

We don't really know if he's had an affect.  For all we know we could have had opportunity to acquire an exciting young prospect for taking on a cap dump but can't afford to with his 6 million on the books.  Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it's not been detrimental.   

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Anybody who thinks we're going to have a team full of kids overnight isn't paying attention.

Louis has to actually play games for this to count. 

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

As I said, hopefully he finds a better and more stable fit next year and becomes at the least, a solid middle 6 contributor. Then in year 5 of his deal, we can hopefully move him once he's (again, hopefully) shown he can contribute more than he has thus far. His contract is quite movable those last 2 years if he can get his play back up to even a respectable level.

That's a lot of hope to commit 6 years and $36 million on

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Rebuilding isn't black and white like some here seem to think. I'm quite happy to have Gaudette on board AND make smart UFA signings.

Which doesn't include Eriksson and Gagner. 

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Eriksson clearly can't fit in to that latter category yet but he does have time to redeem himself. And if not, well #$%^, there's our bad contract we have to deal with.

He can end up redeeming himself, but all that hope doesn't mean we can't be a bit critical over this trade does it.  I think this signing is fair game. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

the whole 'burn it down get as many picks as possible' thing. the problem tho is you end up with a very very crappy team and still have to figure out development. 

Where have you been that last 2 years?  and i've never said burn it down, i have said that acquiring picks needs to be one of the strongest focuses if we really want rebuild properly....  JB agree with me on that. 

 

 

[Nancouver]

The problem with comparing the turris signing to the eriksson signing is that turris could potentially be the difference in nashville winning a cup while louie made no sense considering where the Canucks were as a rebuilding franchise. Not to mention I think turris is a better player than louie.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

What does a 5th round pick have to do with tanking?  Asset management is important, making sure you get value for expiring UFA's (even if it's just a 5th round pick) is the lesson to be learned.  I don't know what that has to do with tanking?

In fairness, Benning has moved pretty much any UFA's he could. Especially any of value.  Hamhuis is about the only one we 'missed out' on and Benning was pretty damn handcuffed on that one.

 

Still plenty of time to move Edler and I'd be shocked if he doesn't move Vanek and perhaps Burmistrov this spring.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

In fairness, Benning has moved pretty much any UFA's he could. Especially any of value.  Hamhuis is about the only one we 'missed out' on and Benning was pretty damn handcuffed on that one.

 

Still plenty of time to move Edler and I'd be shocked if he doesn't move Vanek and perhaps Burmistrov this spring.

Vanek should be gone.  Burmy might make sense to resign. We did try with Higgins and Prust but they sucked too much.  Hammer, I think the situation was handled pourly from the start, same with Vbrata.  I'm ok with Miller not being moved as it would have been hard to move him.  Matthias and Richardson i can deal with since we were in playoffs and that was the goal, Weber & Bartkowski might have been really low value but we could have likely found them a home for depth on a playoff team.  Sedins i don't expect anything, but yes Edler better get a return. 

[higgyfan]

56 minutes ago, combover said:

It was a bad signing (for this team) then it’s even worse now. Hindsight isn’t needed.as for  Magical hindsight well I think I’d use it for more personal gains.

He was 30+ on a rebuilding retooling transitional team whatever spin you want to believe signed to a 6 year deal.. some gms have no self control when UFAs come up spender jim is one of them.didnt the team say they were getting younger and trading away all the older vets. 

Turis at 6 mill isn’t as bad as eriksson at 6mil now or then, turis might even score.

Turris' contract isn't bad at all.  Being a contender, I suppose the Preds think that adding Turris will push them over the top.  Already, they have one of the best group of Cs in the league.  They were willing to give up a couple great looking young players in their ongoing challenge to win a SC.  Same thing goes for the Sens and Duchene, although I foresee and over payment coming up.

 

Eriksson's contract is certainly looking like a mistake; especially the term.  Just be glad we didn't lose a Girard and Kamenev

getting him (Gaudette and Joulevi maybe)?

 

It will be interesting to see how the management deals with the situation in the coming seasons.

 

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Where have you been that last 2 years?  and i've never said burn it down, i have said that acquiring picks needs to be one of the strongest focuses if we really want rebuild properly....  JB agree with me on that. 

 

 

I guess thats why JB hasn't traded a 1st rounder and is actually +1 on pick count. Where have you been?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess thats why JB hasn't traded a 1st rounder and is actually +1 on pick count. Where have you been?

Jimmy put down the pipe.  What does Gaudette being a 5th round pick have to do with a 1st round pick.  Just stop, you going no where with these responses.

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Jimmy put down the pipe.  What does Gaudette being a 5th round pick have to do with a 1st round pick.  Just stop, you going no where with these responses.

then block me, you're a broken record 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

then block me, you're a broken record 

Call me what you want at least i make sense. I'm here talking about getting value from expiring contracts and your off in your own world talking about "not tanking" and how JB hasn't moved out first round picks. I know it's Monday but good grief charlie brown.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Vanek should be gone.  Burmy might make sense to resign. We did try with Higgins and Prust but they sucked too much.  Hammer, I think the situation was handled pourly from the start, same with Vbrata.  I'm ok with Miller not being moved as it would have been hard to move him.  Matthias and Richardson i can deal with since we were in playoffs and that was the goal, Weber & Bartkowski might have been really low value but we could have likely found them a home for depth on a playoff team.  Sedins i don't expect anything, but yes Edler better get a return. 

 

Burmy might and he'd likely have limited value anyway. That's why I said 'perhaps'.

 

Even if handled comparatively 'well', Hamhuis was a tough trade. His NTC and injury that season highly limited his marketability regardless of what Benning did/didn't do. 

 

Vrbata had zero value and gave a list that basically ensured he wasn't going anywhere...meh.

 

Miller was shopped. There was no market. Or at least nothing of enough value vs keeping him around to help keep pucks out for a couple more months.

 

Pretty limited value on those other guys. Same sort of camp as Burmy. Not worth enough to move while decimating your (limited) depth and as you say, for a couple of them, they were hung on to for playoffs. They all rate pretty 'meh' on my care-o-meter. 

 

Agree on Edler.

 

So as I said, you can't really fault Benning for not moving UFA's. He's basically moved any that were of value that he could. And now that we have some prospect depth, we have some nice short term UFA's coming up over the next few years who should net further TDL returns and can be replaced my kids as they develop. Vanek (maybe Burmy/Wiercioch) this year, Dorsett, Edler, MDZ and Nilsson next year, Gagner, Tanev and perhaps Markstrom (though we may re-sign) the year after. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Call me what you want at least i make sense. I'm here talking about getting value from expiring contracts and your off in your own world talking about "not tanking" and how JB hasn't moved out first round picks. I know it's Monday but good grief charlie brown.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

Burmy might and he'd likely have limited value anyway. That's why I said 'perhaps'.

I think it has a bit on how he continues to play and how ready Gaudette looks,  Burmy could be a reasonable one year stop gap. 

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Even if handled comparatively 'well', Hamhuis was a tough trade. His NTC and injury that season highly limited his marketability regardless of what Benning did/didn't do. 

The injury was the big road block, but I do think he should have been approached early in the year,  Hamhuis came out after the team kept giving him mix messaged about them wanting to resign him.  There was also some mismanaging on the first offer we got from dallas and ownership rumored to have got in the way.

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Vrbata had zero value and gave a list that basically ensured he wasn't going anywhere...meh.

Again I think Vbrata should have been approached earlier, he was coming off a 30 goal season, so at one point he should have had value.

 

With both Vbrata and Hammer, Canucks were too focused on making the playoffs rather than worrying about assets. If the goal was more on managing assets or had canucks completely been out of a playoff picture before christmas, we likely would have took a different approach with trying to move them.  We didn't really put the pedal to the medal till the final two years before TD,

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Miller was shopped. There was no market. Or at least nothing of enough value vs keeping him around to help keep pucks out for a couple more months.

He would have been really hard to move,  NTC and he was very particular in where he want to play.  There's only so much of a market for goalies. 

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Pretty limited value on those other guys. Same sort of camp as Burmy. Not worth enough to move while decimating your (limited) depth and as you say, for a couple of them, they were hung on to for playoffs. They all rate pretty 'meh' on my care-o-meter. 

That's what I'm saying though.  Limited value "can" turn in to Gaudette.  At the time of the diaz trade I was pretty much in the meh department. But now it's looking like a real future changer.  A pick (even being limited value) is better than no pick. 

 

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Agree on Edler.

 

So as I said, you can't really fault Benning for not moving UFA's. He's basically moved any that were of value that he could. And now that we have some prospect depth, we have some nice short term UFA's coming up over the next few years who should net further TDL returns and can be replaced my kids as they develop. Vanek (maybe Burmy/Wiercioch) this year, Dorsett, Edler, MDZ and Nilsson next year, Gagner, Tanev and perhaps Markstrom (though we may re-sign) the year after. 

I'm not faulting JB, i think there are few things I wish he could have done more on but for the most part i'm ok with how it's gone, i'm just pointing out the lesson that, getting picks is better than not getting picks on expiring assets. 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I'm not faulting JB, i think there are few things I wish he could have done more on but for the most part i'm ok with how it's gone, i'm just pointing out the lesson that, getting picks is better than not getting picks on expiring assets. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

What's thought as common sense isn't so obvious to others on this board, hence Jimmy still off talking about tanking and us not trading away first round picks.  At least you were able to clue in. Here have an award

 

[aGENT]

24 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

What's thought as common sense isn't so obvious to others on this board, hence Jimmy still off talking about tanking and us not trading away first round picks.  At least you were able to clue in. Here have an award

It's not a matter of cluing in to anything. I like picks as much as the next guy. I'm just not obtusely black and white about it and realize there's context to any situation and reasons for other moves. The key is to continue to improve the club and continue to build. Whether that's trades for solid young 20 somethings or picks or signings doesn't really matter as long as the Canuck boat is paddling in the right direction, which it is.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

It's not a matter of cluing in to anything. I like picks as much as the next guy. I'm just not obtusely black and white about it and realize there's context to any situation and reasons for other moves. The key is to continue to improve the club and continue to build. Whether that's trades for solid young 20 somethings or picks or signings doesn't really matter as long as the Canuck boat is paddling in the right direction, which it is.

Actually, you must be here because i never said anything about context, I used gaudette as an example of hindsight value on late round picks.  Gaudette had zero to do with JB not being good at rebuilding and it wasn't presented as a knock against him, but you and a few others are so uptight that you think everything not presented as JB love, is somehow JB hate.  Go back read this discussion, i've done nothing but state...the obvious.  You and Jimmy are the ones that took my "obvious" statement out of context and created two pages of strawman discussion in a Turris signing thread. 

 

Take a breather, you don't always have to be on JB protection patrol.

[apollo]

Turris at 6 x 6 

Duchene at 2 x 6 ... in 2 years he'll want way more than that...

 

This is Bizarre. I don't think Duchene is much better than Kyle. 

 

I think Preds did great here... they've bolstered their Center position for years to come... two elite BC Boys in Kyle and RJ ... followed up buy Big Game Bonino.

[aGENT]

Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Actually, you must be here because i never said anything about context, I used gaudette as an example of hindsight value on late round picks.  Gaudette had zero to do with JB not being good at rebuilding and it wasn't presented as a knock against him, but you and a few others are so uptight that you think everything not presented as JB love, is somehow JB hate.  Go back read this discussion, i've done nothing but state...the obvious.  You and Jimmy are the ones that took my "obvious" statement out of context and created two pages of strawman discussion in a Turris signing thread. 

 

Take a breather, you don't always have to be on JB protection patrol.

 ok, sorry if common sense is 'JB protection patrol' in your book. 

 

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously? 

[Rush17]

4 hours ago, combover said:

I don’t think the turis deal is that bad all things considered he might even be under paid currently when you look around at who’s making 6 mill. but owners will want to blame the players for the ever increasing salaries as they did before and they will even thou they drive the market and  want away out of some of the contracts they signed that might be a bit on long side.

i don’t see turis deal as one of them.

i think the biggest mistake is when teams all offer matching contracts for top free agents.  ie lucic and Eriksson. 

 

i think they should have 5 year max contracts myself.  provide them with a clause to extend 2 or 3 seasons in once they know the player fits their needs. (up to 5 years total) 

 

that way players can still get top dollar during good runs and teams do not be strapped with terrible deals.  5 years is a long time.