JM_ Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 5 hours ago, CanadianRugby said: Stop trolling, I've argued with you before. I know you're not this stupid. I never guaranteed anything, it's called a lottery for a reason. There are no guarantees in sports, it's part of what makes sports great. I will predict something though. As long as there's a salary cap, the vast majority of Stanley Cup winners will be built around superstars that they drafted in the top 3. its not trolling when someone makes a point you don't like, fyi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 7 hours ago, CanadianRugby said: No kidding, some management groups are bad at their jobs. That doesn't mean rebuilding didn't get multiple Stanley Cups for other management groups. Cool. Name some management groups that won multiple cups without rebuilding and having top 3 picks in the cap era. I'll save you the time, there aren't any. If it was more about management than rebuild than nobody would ever tank and 50% of cup winners wouldn't have top picks on their teams. It's going to be about what it classified as a rebuild. Detroit's had a dynasty for a long time without rebuilding, so to say there aren't any is just simply you covering your ears going "lalala I can't heeeeear you!" I'm waiting to see what your next comment will be, Perhaps it'll be about "how stupid I am" or about me someone "not coming up with a good point". But hey, I don't picture you as someone who's willing to listen outside of their own bubble anyway. I don't really believe in "realists" per se, but if we were to talk about being real, a true realist is one who looks at both sides. I'm willing to listen to you. Are you willing to do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 On 11/9/2017 at 6:43 PM, kanucks25 said: If they are the "usual suspects" that means they've been around consistently enough to be labelled "usual", which means they haven't jumped off the wagon, they just don't like the direction it's heading. Good try, though. stretching for it are you? that's the sign of bandwagon,,, fans stay in the wagon no matter what... good try tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, iceman64 said: stretching for it are you? that's the sign of bandwagon,,, fans stay in the wagon no matter what... good try tho Waving the pompoms regardless of idiotic decisions made by the organization isn't "staying on the wagon", it's being a delusional homer. I've been very clear about my dislike for this management team but that doesn't mean I stopped watching the games or following the team. I'm still a fan, always will be, it's just that I'm not willing to turn a blind eye to stupidity. If management types weren't held accountable by fans and media then Mike Milbury might still be GM on the Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Waving the pompoms regardless of idiotic decisions made by the organization isn't "staying on the wagon", it's being a delusional homer. I've been very clear about my dislike for this management team but that doesn't mean I stopped watching the games or following the team. I'm still a fan, always will be, it's just that I'm not willing to turn a blind eye to stupidity. If management types weren't held accountable by fans and media then Mike Milbury might still be GM on the Island. 13 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Waving the pompoms regardless of idiotic decisions made by the organization isn't "staying on the wagon", it's being a delusional homer. I've been very clear about my dislike for this management team but that doesn't mean I stopped watching the games or following the team. I'm still a fan, always will be, it's just that I'm not willing to turn a blind eye to stupidity. If management types weren't held accountable by fans and media then Mike Milbury might still be GM on the Island. yeah so join the crowd, I've been a fan since 75... read my previous posts about that... this isn't news... it's olddddddddddddddddddddddddddd news... nothing has changed here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Benning gets re-signed 6 minutes after the Sedins retire. Please please do not re-sign the Sedins. Please let us all move on. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 11 hours ago, fanfor42 said: Benning gets re-signed 6 minutes after the Sedins retire. Please please do not re-sign the Sedins. Please let us all move on. Please. AMEN ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 14 hours ago, kanucks25 said: If management types weren't held accountable by fans and media then Mike Milbury might still be GM on the Island. As bad as Milbury was....remember that he had wacky owner to deal with. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/sports/hockey/charles-b-wang-the-islanders-unorthodox-owner.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 16 hours ago, kanucks25 said: Waving the pompoms regardless of idiotic decisions made by the organization isn't "staying on the wagon", it's being a delusional homer. I've been very clear about my dislike for this management team but that doesn't mean I stopped watching the games or following the team. I'm still a fan, always will be, it's just that I'm not willing to turn a blind eye to stupidity. If management types weren't held accountable by fans and media then Mike Milbury might still be GM on the Island. Hmmm, you seemed to stay clear of the gang. No neg votes. And all I did was ask "if" they should resign Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 On 11/8/2017 at 5:36 PM, TheGuardian_ said: The question should not "when" it should be "should they?" This is a valid question and am not sure why so many gave you negatives. I guess from ownership standpoint a lot depends on what input they had with decisions regarding older players and how to inject a younger core of players into the lineup without using the scorched team approach. So many people raving about this team so far this year but the facts are that until it is a consistent playoff team there is still much work to do. If i was making the decision i would want to see what the team looks like after the Sedins' are done and how that cap space is used. Also another draft and see what happens there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 14 hours ago, Westcoasting said: This is a valid question and am not sure why so many gave you negatives. I guess from ownership standpoint a lot depends on what input they had with decisions regarding older players and how to inject a younger core of players into the lineup without using the scorched team approach. So many people raving about this team so far this year but the facts are that until it is a consistent playoff team there is still much work to do. If i was making the decision i would want to see what the team looks like after the Sedins' are done and how that cap space is used. Also another draft and see what happens there. Fanatics? Maybe they think it should be a separate thread. Maybe they don't think 8 to 9 years is too long (they have already had 3+ years). Maybe they really like Benning and Linden. 650 radio covered this question a couple of days after I posted it as well as a couple of others. Turns out many fans agree with the sentiment according to their poll. It does make you wonder though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 On 11/11/2017 at 6:25 PM, kanucks25 said: Waving the pompoms regardless of idiotic decisions made by the organization isn't "staying on the wagon", it's being a delusional homer. I've been very clear about my dislike for this management team but that doesn't mean I stopped watching the games or following the team. I'm still a fan, always will be, it's just that I'm not willing to turn a blind eye to stupidity. If management types weren't held accountable by fans and media then Mike Milbury might still be GM on the Island. On 11/12/2017 at 8:51 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said: As bad as Milbury was....remember that he had wacky owner to deal with. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/sports/hockey/charles-b-wang-the-islanders-unorthodox-owner.html I think that the media had guessed that Benning, with his scouting background, was brought in to rebuild the Canucks. In the long term, I believe this is true. It's a big assumption though to think that short term goals were to dive into a rebuild. I think that fans had expectations of what was going on that weren't accurate. That's what pissed a lot of people off. "Management" is like a black box with pictures of Bennings and Lindens faces pasted on it. We see the decisions that get made but there is a heck of a lot going on that we will never see that affects those decisions. The owner is the best person to evaluate management. If they operate to his taste and are achieving the goals that Aquilini and his team have planned for, then the manager has been doing a good job. Unfortunately, neither fans nor the media will ever find out just what this is. They have to keep it secret so their competition doesn't find out what their plans are. What appears to be flip flopping, I cannot believe are the actions of a single rational person. Plans and strategies do get reviewed and adjusted periodically by the executive group based on conditions both inside and outside the organization. I'm pretty sure there was an adjustment made between the time they signed Loui Eriksson and when they traded Burrows and Hansen for example. The "business" of running a hockey team is pretty broad. I personally would like to see Benning in charge of Hockey Ops only (the roster, drafting, development, coaches, trainers etc) and leave other things to somebody who is more of a business man. Even contracts. I like the idea of having a lawyer like Gilman negotiating contracts. Most player agents are lawyers after all. Maybe that's the case already. I don't think I've ever seen an actual job description of what Benning does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 On 2017-11-11 at 4:01 PM, The Lock said: It's going to be about what it classified as a rebuild. Detroit's had a dynasty for a long time without rebuilding, so to say there aren't any is just simply you covering your ears going "lalala I can't heeeeear you!" I'm waiting to see what your next comment will be, Perhaps it'll be about "how stupid I am" or about me someone "not coming up with a good point". Good point. All Vancouver has to do is use a time machine to go to an era where 80% of the league was irrelevant because there was no cap and all the good free agents went to the wealthy teams. Then draft the best defenseman of all time and ride him for 20 years. You should tweet Benning to get this done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 On 2017-11-12 at 10:36 AM, TheGuardian_ said: Hmmm, you seemed to stay clear of the gang. No neg votes. And all I did was ask "if" they should resign Benning. just cuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 They should give him a 3 year extension. He’s done well drafting for not winning the lotto. His 2017 draft with Petterson,Lind and Gadjovich is looking as good as his 2015 with Boeser and Gaudette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 23 hours ago, Crabcakes said: I think that the media had guessed that Benning, with his scouting background, was brought in to rebuild the Canucks. In the long term, I believe this is true. It's a big assumption though to think that short term goals were to dive into a rebuild tank. I think that fans had expectations of what was going on that weren't accurate. That's what pissed a lot of people off. FTFY And long term, it is true. The team always has been rebuilding since he took over or we wouldn't have kids starting to show up on the roster with more on the horizon. They just weren't going to purposely tank and throw the present in the trash to do so. Despite some on CDC confusing the two terms as synonyms, they are not. It's hardly management's fault that some people have been confused on that matter. They've been quite clear from day one that they were not going to tank to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 On 11/8/2017 at 4:42 PM, FijianCanuck said: Heard on sn650 his contract is up soon. I can't imagine letting jb walk after all the positive work he's done. Only the Aquilinis can extend his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said: Only the Aquilinis can extend his contract. And in a radio interview Aquaman stated that he was happy with JB and was working on negotiating a new contract with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 18 hours ago, CanadianRugby said: Good point. All Vancouver has to do is use a time machine to go to an era where 80% of the league was irrelevant because there was no cap and all the good free agents went to the wealthy teams. Then draft the best defenseman of all time and ride him for 20 years. You should tweet Benning to get this done. What are you even going on about? You asked for a team that hadn't been rebuilding and won a cup and claimed I wouldn't be able to find one. I told you one and now you're dodging that fact entirely by claiming that somehow winning a cup over 10 years ago is irrelevant. Also, somehow they were riding Lindstrom? That has to be some of the biggest nonsense I've actually heard on these forums. Yzerman, Federov, etc say hi. Meanwhile, the draft is harder to win the lottery through tanking, some players drafted beyond the start of the first round are becoming superstars, our prospect pool looks better than it has in the past decade, and the world is somehow still spinning around despite the fact that we haven't officially tanked. Would I like the next Matthews or McDavid? Sure. Who wouldn't? But I'm not going to watch a team tank for 5 to 10 years just to get that one player that will get us to the cup finals in the year 2030 and beyond, especially when there's even a good chance of that NOT happening if we tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 30 minutes ago, The Lock said: What are you even going on about? You asked for a team that hadn't been rebuilding and won a cup and claimed I wouldn't be able to find one. I told you one and now you're dodging that fact entirely by claiming that somehow winning a cup over 10 years ago is irrelevant. It is irrelevant. There was no salary cap back then. Comparing team building strategies when ELC were different, draft rules were different, salaries were different, makes no sense. If you have to go back to that time period to find something that supports your argument you should realize your argument is flawed. 30 minutes ago, The Lock said: Would I like the next Matthews or McDavid? Sure. Who wouldn't? But I'm not going to watch a team tank for 5 to 10 years just to get that one player Toronto tanked for 1 year and got Matthews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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