When can we extend Jim Bennings contract?

[JM_]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

No he isn't, Virtanen WAS listedd at #6 on a few, very few draft rankings lists but he probably average around 11 to 16 on most. I looked at 10 lists I think it was, the end of season lists are still available on the net.

 

OJ? Well that goes to the other thread, if the team had not gotten rid of Forsling then they could have drafted the next BPA, Tkachuk instead and had two potential power forwards and a drafted dman playing in the NHL now, not MAYBE in another 2 years. Forsling has the skills Benning etal described the team needs/needed.

Forsling has had 2 more years of development, I'd be very surprised if he ended up being better than OJ. And don't tell me anyone saw that coming out of a smallish 5th round pick. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

No he isn't, Virtanen WAS listedd at #6 on a few, very few draft rankings lists but he probably average around 11 to 16 on most. I looked at 10 lists I think it was, the end of season lists are still available on the net.

 

OJ? Well that goes to the other thread, if the team had not gotten rid of Forsling then they could have drafted the next BPA, Tkachuk instead and had two potential power forwards and a drafted dman playing in the NHL now, not MAYBE in another 2 years. Forsling has the skills Benning etal described the team needs/needed.

I stand corrected @Snidely Whiplash is correct, Button didn't have Jake in the 1st round. 

 

 

[joe-max]

15 hours ago, Snidely Whiplash said:

If you got the Canucks GM job in a parallel universe and You did absolutely nothing. Didn’t make a single trade. Just picked your picks signed the next UFA who wants to prove he can still play in the NHL where you come short and did interviews, gelled your hair, ect. IMHO this team would have had a similar journey to this point standing wise with an extra lottery pick instead of Boeser. We would have a bigger and possibly better prospect pool (McDavid?) like $20M in capsace and respect from other GM’s. 

That's an interesting idea. Let's try. Benning's tenure without activity outside the draft.

 

Players that came in via trade: Sbisa, Bonino, Vey, Acton, Pedan, Clendening, Baertschi, Conacher, Prust, Etem, Granlund, Larsen, Gudbranson, Dahlen, Goldobin, Pouliot, Dorsett

 

Players that were traded away: Lain, Mallet, Forsling, Jeffrey, Lack, McNally, Bieksa, Kassian, Bonino, Clendening, Jensen, Shinkaruk, Fox, McCann, Burrows, Hansen, Pedan, Garrison, Costello

 

Added draft picks: 2014: 1st, 2nd, 3rd - 2015: 3rd, 7th, 7th - 2016: 2nd, 3rd, 5th - 2017: 4th

Lost draft picks: 2014: 2nd, 3rd - 2015: 2nd, 3rd, 7th - 2016: 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th - 2017: 5th, 6th - 2018: 4th

They greyed out draft picks are a wash (not really, but I'm not going to compare standings for each team that year). The team would not have had the McCann, Olson and Rathbone pick, they would have had an additional 2nd in 2015, a 2nd and a 4th in 2016 and a 5th and 6th in 2017.

 

The team would probably have been worse in 14/15 (no Sbisa, Bonino, Clendening, Vey, Dorsett, who played decently enough and helped overcome injury trouble) and might have missed the playoffs, resulting in higher picks in 15. They would probably not have selected Boeser, but someone in the 5-10 range (Hanifin, Zacher, Provorov, Werenski, Meier, Rantanen). 

 

In 15/16 they would still have had Bieksa, but no Baertschi, Sutter instead of Bonino. Probably a similar final position.

 

In 16/17 they would probably have had a better second half with experienced Burrows/Hansen but no Granlund, resulting in a slightly lower pick in the 2017 draft (Glass, Andersson, MIttelstädt, Rasmussen). 

 

WD would still be around as the GM would have been too busy doing his hair. Therefore Tryamkin would also have left.

 

Vega could not have picked Sbisa, so one other veteran would be out. Not much that the team would have had to offer though, probably Gaunce.

 

Team this year:

Virtanen - Horvat - Eriksson

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Vanek - Burmistrov - 2015 pick

Shinkaruk - Gagner - Burrows

Jensen

+ possibly 1st-rounder from the 17 draft

 

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - Stecher

Del Zotto - Bieksa

Biega/Forsling/Garrison

+ possibly a 2nd-rounder from 15

 

Markström

Läck

 

Prospect pool:

No Goldobin, no Dahlen, probably no Petterson, but 2 additional 2nd-rounders, a 4th, a 5th and a 6th.

 

My prediction: The team would be much worse this year, fighting for last spot. The prospect pool would not be significantly better. The fanbase would freak out. Benning would be fired after the year after three horrible seasons in a row.

[JM_]

I like Jim, but I do wonder what Trevor might do if they want to make a change..... Dean Lombardi is working for Philly right now.... Trevor's 2nd hires seem to be good ones.... I kid, hope they give Jim a few more seasons for the prospects to pan out. 

[TheGuardian_]

42 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Forsling has had 2 more years of development, I'd be very surprised if he ended up being better than OJ. And don't tell me anyone saw that coming out of a smallish 5th round pick. 

That he was under aged and under sized didn't diminish his productivity on the PP. Everyone in Europe knew how good he was and how the Canucks STOLE him as a 5th round selection. It was because he was small at 17 that he didn't go higher in the draft.

 

Not trading him would have saved the Canucks those 2 years of development that they now have to wait on for to see if OJ is what they thought he might be, MacKenzie now qualifies his statements with stuff like he can be a NHL defenceman rather than "the dman the Nucks need" quotatin marks only to separate intent of posting, not Mac's words.

 

And the Nucks still could have then drafted the next BPA and had him in the line up now maybe even instead of Eriksson. How many other draft selection will be affected by that trade to find the needed PP specialist? Certainly OJ ain't fillin that role next year, he is having a tough enough time in Europe now.

 

The decision has delayed the re-whatever by years. Now if only they can get Tryamkin back then that may catch those years back up.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

That he was under aged and under sized didn't diminish his productivity on the PP. Everyone in Europe knew how good he was and how the Canucks STOLE him as a 5th round selection. It was because he was small at 17 that he didn't go higher in the draft.

 

Not trading him would have saved the Canucks those 2 years of development that they now have to wait on for to see if OJ is what they thought he might be, MacKenzie now qualifies his statements with stuff like he can be a NHL defenceman rather than "the dman the Nucks need" quotatin marks only to separate intent of posting, not Mac's words.

 

And the Nucks still could have then drafted the next BPA and had him in the line up now maybe even instead of Eriksson. How many other draft selection will be affected by that trade to find the needed PP specialist? Certainly OJ ain't fillin that role next year, he is having a tough enough time in Europe now.

 

The decision has delayed the re-whatever by years. Now if only they can get Tryamkin back then that may catch those years back up.

honestly this just seems like a ridiculous amount of angst over a guy that isn't going to make the difference to this years club, and that Pouliot will probably surpass. Sorry just can't get that worked up over this, it isn't that big a deal. 

 

[Crabcakes]

Much talk today on 650 about Benning's contract which expires at the end of this season.  Jason Brough has written an article in The Athletic (subscription only, so I can't post).

 

Bottom line, it's based on an interview with Linden on Nov 20 where he said that there was every possibility that Benning's contract may not be resolved until after the season ends.  The question is, why the indecision?  Do you really want a lame duck GM going into the trade deadline or God forbid, the draft?  One or the other of the parties may not be happy.

 

I just hope that ownership understands that if a team rebuilds, they usually get worse before they get better.  Even if they try to do it on the fly.  The team is much better this year but remains outside the playoffs and is projecting to the low 80's in points.

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I stand corrected @Snidely Whiplash is correct, Button didn't have Jake in the 1st round. 

 

 

Depends on which list of Button's you're looking at. He does two. 

[JM_]

26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Depends on which list of Button's you're looking at. He does two. 

Craig is bi? 

[aGENT]

11 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Craig is bi? 

 Pretty much. 

[The Great Canucks]

Benning deserves to be extended and should be allowed to finish overseeing this rebuild. All the pathetic haters can suck it if they don't like it.

[mll]

13 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Much talk today on 650 about Benning's contract which expires at the end of this season.  Jason Brough has written an article in The Athletic (subscription only, so I can't post).

 

Bottom line, it's based on an interview with Linden on Nov 20 where he said that there was every possibility that Benning's contract may not be resolved until after the season ends.  The question is, why the indecision?  Do you really want a lame duck GM going into the trade deadline or God forbid, the draft?  One or the other of the parties may not be happy.

 

I just hope that ownership understands that if a team rebuilds, they usually get worse before they get better.  Even if they try to do it on the fly.  The team is much better this year but remains outside the playoffs and is projecting to the low 80's in points.

 

He posted an extract on his twitter account:

 

 

 

[Crabcakes]

2 minutes ago, mll said:

 

He posted an extract on his twitter account:

 

 

 

Is Benning getting re-signed or not?  Maybe it's just a foregone conclusion and nothing to worry about.

 

They have a plan that is half way rolled out.  I'm sure the plan is working and we're starting to see results.  If they bring in a new GM, and the plan gets changed, it'll be a major setback in the rebuild similar to what happened in Florida.

[mll]

13 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Is Benning getting re-signed or not?  Maybe it's just a foregone conclusion and nothing to worry about.

 

They have a plan that is half way rolled out.  I'm sure the plan is working and we're starting to see results.  If they bring in a new GM, and the plan gets changed, it'll be a major setback in the rebuild similar to what happened in Florida.

Sounds like they want to see how the season goes before deciding.  

It's a job all about results and how his decisions turn out matter - who he drafted, the trades he made, the contracts he handed out.  

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

Sounds like they want to see how the season goes before deciding.  

It's a job all about results and how his decisions turn out matter - who he drafted, the trades he made, the contracts he handed out.  

normally I don't give any weight to what reporters are saying about front office things, I doubt many (or any) of them really have that kind of access. But in this case with Linden's own comments it seems like maybe both sides aren't ready to commit further. It may be that Jim finds this market too demanding compared to other US cities where its the 4th or even 5th sport. 

 

It makes me wonder if Linden and Ralph Kruger still have something cooking as well. Total speculation on my part. Good times. 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

normally I don't give any weight to what reporters are saying about front office things, I doubt many (or any) of them really have that kind of access. But in this case with Linden's own comments it seems like maybe both sides aren't ready to commit further. It may be that Jim finds this market too demanding compared to other US cities where its the 4th or even 5th sport. 

 

It makes me wonder if Linden and Ralph Kruger still have something cooking as well. Total speculation on my part. Good times. 

It would appear to me that both Benning and Linden should be happy with the progress to date when you consider the state of the org when they came in. If there is a problem of personality I haven't seen it but then why would fans see it. Is ownership unrealistic in their expectations? It would have been tough to see the empty seats earlier in the year. Is ownership still committed long term? If not then maybe they primp the team for sale by making shorter horizon moves. The Acquilini's are businessmen and decisions can be forced by other interests. A possibility but I doubt it.

 

IMHO Canuck management & ownership is full of quality people. I see no changes.

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

It would appear to me that both Benning and Linden should be happy with the progress to date when you consider the state of the org when they came in. If there is a problem of personality I haven't seen it but then why would fans see it. Is ownership unrealistic in their expectations? It would have been tough to see the empty seats earlier in the year. Is ownership still committed long term? If not then maybe they primp the team for sale by making shorter horizon moves. The Acquilini's are businessmen and decisions can be forced by other interests. A possibility but I doubt it.

 

IMHO Canuck management & ownership is full of quality people. I see no changes.

where the org lacks a bit imo is in creating a really high quality fan experience at Rogers Arena but thats kind of Linden's job imo. Other than that, now that scouting and rebuilding are a real focus things are getting a lot more fun to follow. I do like most of what Jim's done, his mistakes haven't been pretty but also not franchise-altering either. Loui E finally seems to be finding his game again so if that works out then overall its been good and I'd be happy to see Jim extended. But if another quality person like Kruger or Lombardi were available thats fine too. 

[messier's_elbow]

15 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Much talk today on 650 about Benning's contract which expires at the end of this season.  Jason Brough has written an article in The Athletic (subscription only, so I can't post).

 

Bottom line, it's based on an interview with Linden on Nov 20 where he said that there was every possibility that Benning's contract may not be resolved until after the season ends.  The question is, why the indecision?  Do you really want a lame duck GM going into the trade deadline or God forbid, the draft?  One or the other of the parties may not be happy.

 

I just hope that ownership understands that if a team rebuilds, they usually get worse before they get better.  Even if they try to do it on the fly.  The team is much better this year but remains outside the playoffs and is projecting to the low 80's in points.

Honestly I think the emergence of Boeser and his 2017 draft might have gave him some leeway. Hard to can a guy who’s last few drafts have been the best the franchise has had in 15 years. 

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

My last word on Rodin is that he will make us pay or that treatment.....THE WORST move JB has made to date.....

 

From the Province ( his last word is the same as mine):

full story:  http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/the-provies-flowvember-reprised-the-rodin-situation-and-the-walker-situation

 

BEST SCREWED

I can sum up the Anton Rodin situations in three words.

He got screwed.

The reasons for it are complicated and not entirely understood. But he never had a chance. Not this year. Not last year. And I’d argue, as he tried to become an NHL player, not ever.

Go back to his first professional year. Canucks management was upset with the way he was used in Chicago, an independent AHL affiliate that held the hammer in deployment decisions.

He was in a limited role and regularly scratched. Canucks management was never happy with what was going in his development back then.

This I can tell you. Rodin desperately wants to play in the NHL. He’s hoping he can get to Switzerland, thrive, score and earn himself another chance.

The idea he didn’t want it enough is just flat out wrong.

What is not, he did not get a chance this year. And that was true from the moment he arrived.

He was on the Canucks “B” team from the jump in training camp, already well down in the pecking order after the Canucks picked Burmistrov, Gagner and Vanek.

It appeared predetermined he would not make the Canucks and, when he didn’t, he was sent to Utica. The Comets first two games were in Toronto six days after Rodin was waived from the Canucks.

He was healthy enough to play in those two games. He wanted to play in those two games. He was a year removed from being the Swedish elite league MVP, a season in which he was so much better than everyone else, he missed 19 games and still won it.

But for the freaking Utica Comets, he was scratched.

He would go on to play in just seven of the Comets 15 games. In all of them, he was healthy enough to play.

The Canucks contend injury was a factor.

I’m led to believe he won’t be missing games in Switzerland. We’ll see.

Early on, in Utica, Rodin looked great. In one game, he had two assists and hit the post three different times with shots. One of the assists was subsequently, officially, taken away from him.

That wasn’t good enough to get him in good standing with his coach, Cull. He never really got out of the doghouse there.

Rodin spent multiple games on Utica’s fourth line when he was in the lineup. In at least one of those games there were NHL scouts to see him who left reporting back to their teams that Rodin was basically playing on the Comets fourth line.

That’s not how you get another NHL job.

Rodin was never on the first unit power play, as far as I know.

I found just one game where he played with Goldobin.

He scored.

It was obvious he was not in the Canucks plans and he was deployed in a way that was unacceptable for him to continue, no matter how much he wanted the NHL.

Maybe if he played last season, he could have weathered playing half the time and in a role that limited his upside.

But a player can’t miss an entire season and then play games like that. Not at his age. His professional future was in the balance.

Yes, in the end, he wanted out.

I don’t think he had any other choice. The writing was on the wall.

Behind the scenes, there seemed to be this sense that he was here for the money. That he signed the only one-way contract in the NHL he was offered because of the pay.

But if that was the case, he would have taken KHL offers which would have seen him make double the money.

He took the one way because he thought it meant the Canucks believed in him.

He was wrong.

BEST EVIDENCE

MacEwen and Carcone are bottom six forwards.

In the AHL.

BEST OPINION

I asked Beacher, who watches pretty much every Utica game, for a Rodin take.

“He never had a bad game. He was just a little behind.

“There was some obvious rust, and he had been out-played but there wasn’t continuously bad play.”

BEST THEORY

Why did the Canucks sign Rodin?

Why were the Canucks the only team to offer him a one-way, an offer they had reason to believe he couldn’t really turn down?

It remains a wondrous, unanswered question.

But a couple people around the NHL say they believe a theory I put out there earlier.

And that is, the Canucks were concerned how it’d look if he thrived elsewhere.

 

 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

normally I don't give any weight to what reporters are saying about front office things, I doubt many (or any) of them really have that kind of access. But in this case with Linden's own comments it seems like maybe both sides aren't ready to commit further. It may be that Jim finds this market too demanding compared to other US cities where its the 4th or even 5th sport. 

 

It makes me wonder if Linden and Ralph Kruger still have something cooking as well. Total speculation on my part. Good times. 

 

All it sounds like to me is that they're all focused on the team and Benning's contract is barely a concern to anyone, Benning included.

 

IMO, his deal gets extended when they have less pressing things to deal with and nobody's particularly sweating over it at this point.