[PGT] Vegas Golden Knights vs. Vancouver Canucks

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unacceptable

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

35 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The post wasn't blaming Edler for defensive frailties. It stated that now is the time to cut bait with him, as his worth is at the point of diminishing returns. As well, when the Sedins hopefully aren't re-signed, that will give Edler even less of a reason to remain on the team.

They are no longer very effective players, so to continue on with them after this season is an exercise in nostalgic futility.

 

 I know alot are hoping the Sedins retire after this season and yes their offense output has been on a decline, but I've got a funny feeling they come back for a year at a home town discount. 

[alfstonker]

33 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The post wasn't blaming Edler for defensive frailties. It stated that now is the time to cut bait with him, as his worth is at the point of diminishing returns. As well, when the Sedins hopefully aren't re-signed, that will give Edler even less of a reason to remain on the team.

They are no longer very effective players, so to continue on with them after this season is an exercise in nostalgic futility.

 

I wasn't implying you were, I was making it clear where I stood before agreeing that it might be a good time to trade him.

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

How many years left on Edlers contract? I know alot are hoping the Sedins retire after this season and yes their offensive output have been on a decline, but I've got a funny feeling they come back for a year at a home town discount. 

One more season after this one for Edler.

 

I have a sinking feeling that the Sedins might come back for another season, but I do believe that it would be a very bad idea to do so. At this point, they are in the way of progress. If the team truly had no other options, I would think that it might be plausible, but with the amount of young players with NHL ready ability ready to go as early as next season, the decision should be to not re-sign them.

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

How many years left on Edlers contract? I know alot are hoping the Sedins retire after this season and yes their offensive output have been on a decline, but I've got a funny feeling they come back for a year at a home town discount. 

One more season after this one for Edler.

 

I have a sinking feeling that the Sedins might come back for another season, but I do believe that it would be a very bad idea to do so. At this point, they are in the way of progress. If the team truly had no other options, I would think that it might be plausible, but with the amount of young players with NHL ready ability ready to go as early as next season, the decision should be to not re-sign them.

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I wasn't implying you were, I was making it clear where I stood before agreeing that it might be a good time to trade him.

[TheGuardian_]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

But what are they doing with those extended periods of time in the offensive zone? How many goals are being scored? They may have great possession stats, but if they aren't scoring at a consistent clip, that possession is null and void. As well, they are past the time in their careers when they are impactful.

While not scoring at the rate they used to they are still a threat, their game is improving as time goes by this season. Apart from Boser and Horvat , Sutter seems to be driving a line. Yes the defensive game is suffering more now but in reality it was never very good before, it was just that most shifts they kept the puck away from the other team. You could say their defence was played in the offensive zone via puck possession.

 

6 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Yes Virtanen needs to be in the lineup to utilize his speed and shot, but he does need to bring the physical side of his game as well, because it is a pretty impressive trait he possesses.

Do you think Boser or Horvat or Eriksson or ...... will be sat out because they aren't playing 100% or even don't hit like Virtanen could/can? Why should his size and strength be a negative, so negative that he gets benched? Isn't his speed and shot worthy of building upon?

 

[Nucker 67]

I was at the game, the Canucks didn't look good. A lot of mistakes on D (Edler, Pouliot), Markstrom struggled, time to put Nilsson in for a string of games. The Sedins weren't very good, Gagner struggled. Dorsett struggled. Granlund was invisible. There were a handful of players that played okay. Canucks obviously didn't work as hard as the Knights, this is a problem.

 

During intermission, they showed some video of players answering questions about who would be the worst babysitter on the team for Nilsson's new baby boy, and almost everyone asked named Jake as the worst. I get the feeling he doesn't get any respect on the team, the coach doesn't seem to like him and refuses to play him. I have this bad feeling the Canucks are ruining Jake. He should be developing into a scoring power forward, but all Green wants him to do is hit everything in site, like some 4th line plug. Why doesn't Green get on Gaunce's case and demand he hit everything too? Gaunce is a big boy, but he seems to get preferential treatment. I have this sinking feeling that Jake may be traded at some point. They just don't want to let him play his game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

One more season after this one for Edler.

 

I have a sinking feeling that the Sedins might come back for another season, but I do believe that it would be a very bad idea to do so. At this point, they are in the way of progress. If the team truly had no other options, I would think that it might be plausible, but with the amount of young players with NHL ready ability ready to go as early as next season, the decision should be to not re-sign them.

Ok so say we somehow traded Edler which I doubt unless he or management asks to waive NTC. And tbe Sedins do indeed retire what the heck do you do with Eriksson for the next 4 years? That's why I get sinking feeling Sedins come back for at least a year. Plus in management's eyes it's an option to buy time until Pettersson is ready. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Hate seeing players gifted spots.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

At the time he signed that contract he had a team/defense around him. 

Say what you like but Edler has carried this team for the last 3/4 years.

 

Carried (at least alone) might be a bit strong. Him and Tanev have both had to carry a burden beyond what either are capable of for 82 games (also one of the contributors to all their injuries). They're both solid #2D (Edler trending to a #3 as he ages) but that doesn't make either a #1D and they can't perform miracles on a team with no depth and until now, very little in the way of ready, high end prospects etc, etc.

 

37 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The post wasn't blaming Edler for defensive frailties. It stated that now is the time to cut bait with him, as his worth is at the point of diminishing returns. As well, when the Sedins hopefully aren't re-signed, that will give Edler even less of a reason to remain on the team.

They are no longer very effective players, so to continue on with them after this season is an exercise in nostalgic futility.

 

I agree it's likely time to cut bait. And that's coming from a guy with Edler in his sig. We have a tonne of ready/near ready left side depth and his value is only going to go down from here. He's not going to be around for the next core and we now have the depth where he's no longer required to shelter kids putting his usefulness in a no man's land for the Canucks. He's still a solid #2 trending to #3D that could seriously help a contender with a deeper team around him. Edler with 50% retained at the TDL (maybe even packaged with some of our forward depth) should offer a tidy return. Now to get him to waive....

 

4 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

 I know alot are hoping the Sedins retire after this season and yes their offense output has been on a decline, but I've got a funny feeling they come back for a year at a home town discount. 

The team has to also want them back (which I don't think they do). Whether they think they can still play or not next year, I hope they retire (and the team informs them as politely as possible that their services as players will no longer be required). Frankly, if they try to play again next year and look like this or even worse, they're far more likely to tarnish their exemplary and deserved reputations than add to them.

[Rob_Zepp]

It is just a game people - for a 29th place team last year, this wasn't going to be an instant fix.   This game came down to pretty average goaltending by Vancouver, a brutal momentum killing powerplay (not many attempts but each one was as if no one cared to even take a shot), a few mistakes on the back-end that led directly to a goal versus often just leading to a good chance and finally it seemed like every player seemed to be looking for someone else to put the team on their shoulders versus anyone taking that one themselves - probably the worst game of the year for a number of players and when that all happens at same time, you lose.

 

For those wanting a high draft pick, rejoice.  For those planning a parade, try decaf today.   For those who see it for what it was, "whatever" and hopefully a better effort against a Blues team that may be the best team in hockey right now not named Tampa Bay.

[aGENT]

 

8 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

Ok so say we somehow traded Edler which I doubt unless he or management asks to waive NTC. And tbe Sedins do indeed retire what the heck do you do with Eriksson for the next 4 years? That's why I get sinking feeling Sedins come back for at least a year. Plus in management's eyes it's an option to buy time until Pettersson is ready. 

*Hopefully next 2'ish years (plus the rest of this one). His contract becomes quite tradeable in the 5th year.

 

For those 2 years, you play him with players who frankly better suit him than the twins do in the NHL. Whether that's with Granlund and Sutter or otherwise. Heck if Gaudette's ready next year (or the one following), he'd likely be a good fit with him too.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

I don't normally worry about any single game; but it does raise some concerns that the club lost because the other team essentially outworked them at home.   It wasn't just one or a few players - there is plenty of blame to go around.

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I don't normally worry about any single game; but it does raise some concerns that the club lost because the other team essentially outworked them at home.   It wasn't just one or a few players - there is plenty of blame to go around.

Not to excuse their poor play (as they did collectively suck big hairy ones last night) but with only one day coming home off of a hard road trip, I wasn't terribly surprised to see them not exactly high energy or mentally sharp. 

 

They looked and played very much like a tired team back off a hard road trip without enough rest and decidedly not mentally 'engaged' due to said fatigue. 

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

It is just a game people - for a 29th place team last year, this wasn't going to be an instant fix.   This game came down to pretty average goaltending by Vancouver, a brutal momentum killing powerplay (not many attempts but each one was as if no one cared to even take a shot), a few mistakes on the back-end that led directly to a goal versus often just leading to a good chance and finally it seemed like every player seemed to be looking for someone else to put the team on their shoulders versus anyone taking that one themselves - probably the worst game of the year for a number of players and when that all happens at same time, you lose.

 

For those wanting a high draft pick, rejoice.  For those planning a parade, try decaf today.   For those who see it for what it was, "whatever" and hopefully a better effort against a Blues team that may be the best team in hockey right now not named Tampa Bay.

Canuck fans are the biggest drama queens. The team wins a few games and Green is a superstar and we are headed to the cup. They struggle and the sky is falling. No team plays perfect all year. A team that is rebuilding will have major swings in play. Consistency will come as the team gets better players. Green has got more out of Jake then anyone else so lets just let him decide what's best there.

Anyone who has been watching should know that this club is not a playoff team and if we are competitive in most games this year then that is a major win. Seeing Boeser ,Horvat and Baer leading the club in points is exciting. We are watching the next core group develop before our very eyes. 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Canuck fans are the biggest drama queens. The team wins a few games and Green is a superstar and we are headed to the cup. They struggle and the sky is falling. No team plays perfect all year. A team that is rebuilding will have major swings in play. Consistency will come as the team gets better players. Green has got more out of Jake then anyone else so lets just let him decide what's best there.

Anyone who has been watching should know that this club is not a playoff team and if we are competitive in most games this year then that is a major win. Seeing Boeser ,Horvat and Baer leading the club in points is exciting. We are watching the next core group develop before our very eyes. 

Very much this. The kids are leading and scoring and we're staying 'in' most games and that's what we want on the way to a likely top 10 pick.

 

It was nice to see Horvat and Boeser get the tie up goals in an otherwise ugly game that we eventually and rightfully deserved to lose. As long as the kids keep doing that and keep progressing and the team shows effort and battle most nights while we win a few along the way, that's all people should be asking for this year IMO.

[CaptainLinden16]

If you really are honest then this loss is on Travis Green more than anything.  This isn't the first game of the season to Vegas where they are an unknown commodity.  I haven't seen them play up to this point, but Green should've known.  They are REALLY REALLY FAST.  They got behind our defense all game long.  I haven't seen that many two on ones and breakaways since Willie first took over before he decided to completely turtle for the rest of his tenure.

 

The defense should've been keeping the forwards in front of them by backing up early and not pinching as much.  The fact that Green didn't want to adapt or adjust his gameplan is the reason we lost this game.

 

I love all the hate for Edler.  Pouliot was an absolute trash fire in his own zone.  This was easily the worst game he has played.  Held onto the puck too long.  He always does this but most of the time he gets away with it.  He got physically manhandled around the boards as well.  Playing his off side didn't help either

 

Virtanen could've also been very useful in this game with his speed.  Maybe McNabb could've been reversed hit like Kornwall instead of Gagner getting flattened. 

 

Gaunce over Virtanen is mindboggling to me.  Gaunce is a bigger slower Megna.  I mean why on earth he is a darling of this forum is so incredibly puzzling.  He is not even physical.  He is full Megna.  Burmistrov is 3 times the player he is.  Virtanen is more effective than a double Gaunce.  Virtanen would be able to skate through both zones twice before the Gaunce's got to either.

 

Green shouldn't have moved Granlund off the checking line to get his offense going.  Sutter-Granlund-Dorsett were brilliant to start the season.  Their confidence seems to be fraying a little bit because of the scoring expectations.  I mean you are playing 17 minutes + per night.  Goals or no goals you should be happy.

 

That being said, Sutter was force.  5 hits and a breakaway.  Bad in the dot though.

 

Markstrom is not my guy, but he was the right start versus a team like this (fast/skilled/lots of lateral movement).  The first two shots were in the slot.  Hard to blame the guy for that.  The 2nd goal was completely unstoppable had it been Ken Dryden. 

 

 

[appleboy]

14 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

If you really are honest then this loss is on Travis Green more than anything.  This isn't the first game of the season to Vegas where they are an unknown commodity.  I haven't seen them play up to this point, but Green should've known.  They are REALLY REALLY FAST.  They got behind our defense all game long.  I haven't seen that many two on ones and breakaways since Willie first took over before he decided to completely turtle for the rest of his tenure.

 

The defense should've been keeping the forwards in front of them by backing up early and not pinching as much.  The fact that Green didn't want to adapt or adjust his gameplan is the reason we lost this game.

 

I love all the hate for Edler.  Pouliot was an absolute trash fire in his own zone.  This was easily the worst game he has played.  Held onto the puck too long.  He always does this but most of the time he gets away with it.  He got physically manhandled around the boards as well.  Playing his off side didn't help either

 

Virtanen could've also been very useful in this game with his speed.  Maybe McNabb could've been reversed hit like Kornwall instead of Gagner getting flattened. 

 

Gaunce over Virtanen is mindboggling to me.  Gaunce is a bigger slower Megna.  I mean why on earth he is a darling of this forum is so incredibly puzzling.  He is not even physical.  He is full Megna.  Burmistrov is 3 times the player he is.  Virtanen is more effective than a double Gaunce.  Virtanen would be able to skate through both zones twice before the Gaunce's got to either.

 

Green shouldn't have moved Granlund off the checking line to get his offense going.  Sutter-Granlund-Dorsett were brilliant to start the season.  Their confidence seems to be fraying a little bit because of the scoring expectations.  I mean you are playing 17 minutes + per night.  Goals or no goals you should be happy.

 

That being said, Sutter was force.  5 hits and a breakaway.  Bad in the dot though.

 

Markstrom is not my guy, but he was the right start versus a team like this (fast/skilled/lots of lateral movement).  The first two shots were in the slot.  Hard to blame the guy for that.  The 2nd goal was completely unstoppable had it been Ken Dryden. 

 

 

So how is this on Green? Was he suppose to get out on the ice and hold their hands.

[Boudrias]

39 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

It is just a game people - for a 29th place team last year, this wasn't going to be an instant fix.   This game came down to pretty average goaltending by Vancouver, a brutal momentum killing powerplay (not many attempts but each one was as if no one cared to even take a shot), a few mistakes on the back-end that led directly to a goal versus often just leading to a good chance and finally it seemed like every player seemed to be looking for someone else to put the team on their shoulders versus anyone taking that one themselves - probably the worst game of the year for a number of players and when that all happens at same time, you lose.

 

For those wanting a high draft pick, rejoice.  For those planning a parade, try decaf today.   For those who see it for what it was, "whatever" and hopefully a better effort against a Blues team that may be the best team in hockey right now not named Tampa Bay.

Glad to have your voice of reason on site! I am in the high draft pick section. One 1st Rounder is not enough IMHO so I am hoping for a TDL deal.