PhillipBlunt Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: While not scoring at the rate they used to they are still a threat, their game is improving as time goes by this season. Apart from Boser and Horvat , Sutter seems to be driving a line. Yes the defensive game is suffering more now but in reality it was never very good before, it was just that most shifts they kept the puck away from the other team. You could say their defence was played in the offensive zone via puck possession. Playing keepaway isn't conducive to winning hockey games, merely whittling time away. If they are using that time to set up valid scoring chances, then their time would be valuable. That isn't really happening. 3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Do you think Boser or Horvat or Eriksson or ...... will be sat out because they aren't playing 100% or even don't hit like Virtanen could/can? Why should his size and strength be a negative, so negative that he gets benched? Isn't his speed and shot worthy of building upon? I think he's been benched because he hasn't been physical enough. Personally I don't agree with that line of thinking as I feel Jake brings more than just a bone rattling hit, and should be used in more situations. Gagner should be benched before Virtanen is, but I think Green has been instructed to keep the big money players playing because of their salaries. I can't be sure of that, but it sure looks like it. If that is the case, the whole "competition for spots" mantra is a load of crap and shouldn't be presented as fact to the media by Benning and Linden at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: That's part of the problem though. The Sedins WERE giving their all. Can't agree with you there... both played much better vs LA and even SJ in the shutout loss. Last night wasn't the same... Aside from the top line, not many guys gave it their all IMO. Not sure if it was fatigue from first game back from a road trip or what... but it just wasn't there. 6 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Eriksson doesn't need to play with the Sedins to be valuable to the team. He didn't play with them in Boston or Dallas. Having the Sedins continue with their decline in production won't buy time for Petterson. It'll prevent younger players from taking spots in the 3rd or 4th line. I'm hoping Daniel / Henrik re-sign next year for 1-2 mill AAV each and continue to play but with a lesser role. I don't think this should be their last season... unless they are asking for north of 3mill each... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Playing keepaway isn't conducive to winning hockey games, merely whittling time away. Put them on the PK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Good points. Daniel and Henrik are playmakers and it doesn't make sense having both on the same unit - since it becomes easier for the opposing defencemen to take away the shooter after the Sedins play their cycle game. I would like to see this: Baertschi - Henrik - Vanek Boeser - Del Zotto Daniel - Horvat - Eriksson Hutton - Pouliot Or something along those lines. Spread the talent around and get Edler off the powerplay. Those look much better and Stecher can slot in for mdz when he returns too. Stecher has a great shot which seems to have been underutilized and he can skate to get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said: We didn't come out with any urgency and my worry is that these guys, many of whom are young, will be content with a hard fought win then forget to show up next game. Can't dwell on the success, have to earn it every night. With that, I give Vegas credit for coming 100% prepared. Played aggressive, had a lot of jump and just outworked us for the most part. This isn't an easy gig and anyone who thinks they can coast after a win into another will find out the hard way. Every single night they have to bring it, didn't see that at the start of the game. Every single shift requires an all in attitude. If they are satisfied with one win, they'll likely be stuck there as the opportunity to grab #2, 3, etc. passes. Momentum is generated, not handed to you like a free pass. With that, had fun...they did at least give it a go and woke up enough to tie things. Like what I see when they do engage. When they're zoned out, not so much. Deb...I agree the effort wasn't there but it looked to me that it was mostly our vets that weren't prepared. The sedins were sloppy and lazy at times and edler was a train wreck. Scares me that out kids are being g mentored by guys that are no longer able to walk the talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The Sedins used to tire out opponents with their game. Now their opponents isolate them and don't chase as much then cover the open guys. They're not getting enough ice-time for that tactic as well. They have to attack the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 15 hours ago, Tystick said: I'm blaming Edler Edler is so consistently lost in his own zone, his lack of defensive awareness is actually quite astonishing. He needs a change of scenery, 3 coaches later and he still can't play worth a damn (Torts, WillieD and now Greener). Ship him to NYR. Tired of seeing him consistently miss defensive assignments and seeing his back to the play on replays. So. Sick. Of. Edler. Have been for years. I really REALLY hope that Benning does not try to re-sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyndall2 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 This attitude of playing the big money players regardless of their production is similar to the mentality of the Toronto Blue Jays who just kept sticking Bautista out in right field game after game. Sure, he would light it up every tenth game or so but his production overall at bat and defensively weakened throughout the year. This is the same with Edler, Ericsson and the Sedins. Most Bantam players could outskate these guys. You need speed (quickness) in the NHL in today's game. When players become so predictable the other team improves their chances of defending against them, especially on the power play. I agree with many who stated that when Edler was out of the lineup and the Sedins were getting under 10 minutes the whole team played better. Idea: Why not stick Dorsett in front of the net on the powerplay to occupy the defense. Worth a try for a shift or too. Other teams have done it successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 11 hours ago, coolboarder said: Sedin won't be back next year is which I'm happy about but Edler has one more year left in his contract which will give us another year of headaches. Two options in this situation: try to convince him to waive the NTC and if he refuses, buy him out as another option but will gladly take 2 years of reduced cap hits at 1.5 million dollars. It is better than 5 million cap hit next season so would save a lot of money and would help the Canucks to find about 17.5 million of cap space in time for next summer. That should be the last resort if Edler refuses to accept a trade this coming trade deadlines and Benning would have to convince the owner that he is not worth it and cost us a few games due to his bad performance at times. If you ask me to assess his value, his value would be at around 2 million to 3 million, not 5 million on the cap hits. I am not sure how he managed to fetch that money and term for what he brings to this club. This will send a serious message to any underperforming veterans but it will not apply to Eriksson due to signing bonus in which we must pay with more years added so we are stuck with him until he is traded or until end of his contract. So this will end the entitlement right after this season if Benning felt that he has seen enough of Edler's play. However, I wouldn't mind Sedin back at a reduced rate, not 7 million of his current salary. Maybe 2 million for both giving us about 10 million cap space. That is only if it's one year deal and Benning thinks that our young players are not ready to step up and failed to land a bigger fish in UFA pool. Your argument is convincing. My only thought about bringing the Sedins back is totally conjectural on my part: would their presence make it more difficult to turn the page, and for the new leadership group (Horvat, Boeser, Stecher, Baertschi, Sutter and Dorsett) to properly assert themselves? In terms of pure talent, your argument feels right to me -- at a bargain price, the Sedins might be okay, maybe, same with Edler at much reduced money; I just wonder about the value of cleaning house/turning the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: Deb...I agree the effort wasn't there but it looked to me that it was mostly our vets that weren't prepared. The sedins were sloppy and lazy at times and edler was a train wreck. Scares me that out kids are being g mentored by guys that are no longer able to walk the talk. Don't really agree with that (although Edler had some real "mishaps" for sure). The Sedins didn't stand out in a bad way anymore than any others to me. They all seemed flat footed and a little zoned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 32 minutes ago, apollo said: I'm hoping Daniel / Henrik re-sign next year for 1-2 mill AAV each and continue to play but with a lesser role. I don't think this should be their last season... unless they are asking for north of 3mill each... I'm hoping they retire. This team needs to complete the roster turnover and allow younger players who are NHL ready to fill out the roster. They already have a lesser role, normally playing less minutes than almost every other line. Traditionally the 3rd and 4th lines are hard working checking lines. Make no mistake, the Sedins look to be working hard, but to what end? Wearing themselves out having to keep up with players 10-15 years younger than they are? They don't have the size or physicality to be a checking line......so why exactly should they continue to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Put them on the PK! Oh hellllll no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: I hoping that they retire. This team needs to complete the roster turnover and allow younger players who are NHL ready to fill out the roster. They already have a lesser role, normally playing less minutes than almost every other line. Traditionally the 3rd and 4th lines are hard working checking lines. Make no mistake, the Sedins look to be working hard, but to what end? Wearing themselves out having to keep up with players 10-15 years younger than they are? They don't have the size or physicality to be a checking line......so why exactly should they continue to play? And the only time they seem to be able to play their old game 5 on 5 or pp is when Virtanen carries them, or on the pp, when the other 3 players carry them. Aren't there stats that can suggest when a player is a net gain for their linemates? We need this to be used honestly with the Sedins right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davathor Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 47 minutes ago, apollo said: Can't agree with you there... both played much better vs LA and even SJ in the shutout loss. Last night wasn't the same... Aside from the top line, not many guys gave it their all IMO. Not sure if it was fatigue from first game back from a road trip or what... but it just wasn't there. I'm hoping Daniel / Henrik re-sign next year for 1-2 mill AAV each and continue to play but with a lesser role. I don't think this should be their last season... unless they are asking for north of 3mill each... Just because they had more success on those games doesn't mean they weren't giving their all in the other, larger sample of unsuccessful games. That's just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckleHorse Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 15 hours ago, Twilight Sparkle said: ugh, this team First game after a road trip is tough because their wives and girlfriends take up the bulk of their energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, gameburn said: And the only time they seem to be able to play their old game 5 on 5 or pp is when Virtanen carries them, or on the pp, when the other 3 players carry them. Aren't there stats that can suggest when a player is a net gain for their linemates? We need this to be used honestly with the Sedins right now. I think too often, when it comes to the Sedins, there seems to be this inability to view them outside of the legendary/best Canucks ever lens, and not a realistic view of their productivity and performance dropping quite extremely. The Canucks need to do everything they can to prepare for a future run at being contenders for the Stanley Cup. As with any other team, you move on from the previous core and start building a new nucleus that has chemistry and experience together. Arizona moved on from Doan, Calgary from Iginla. Vancouver moved on from Burrows and Bieksa, two players that I believe are just as important to the Canucks as the Sedins are. In fact, I'd include Kesler and Luongo in that conversation too. Outside of Luongo, the other three were drafted or signed from the minors by the organization and developed just the same. Would the Canucks have made it as far as they did in 2011 without Burrows, Bieksa, Kesler, or Luongo? Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I was just watching hilights from the game. Anyone notice the blatant NON CALL on the 3-2 Vegas goal? Gudbrandson was tripped behind the net, not a stick, but a Vegas skate tripped him up and directly led to the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Just now, xereau said: I was just watching hilights from the game. Anyone notice the blatant NON CALL on the 3-2 Vegas goal? Gudbrandson was tripped behind the net, not a stick, but a Vegas skate tripped him up and directly led to the goal. Yeah, I thought Neal was pretty complicity doing such. He's been known to be a bit of a slimy player when he can get away with it. I think Gudbranson could have had a better game, although most of the defense played very spotty, disjointed defense. Baumgartner needs to tighten that up big time. Getting Stecher and Tanev back will help, but shouldn't result in the loss of Pouliot who has been steadily getting better. Frankly, Hutton could use some time in the pressbox. And Edler could use some time playing for another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: I'm hoping they retire. This team needs to complete the roster turnover and allow younger players who are NHL ready to fill out the roster. They already have a lesser role, normally playing less minutes than almost every other line. Traditionally the 3rd and 4th lines are hard working checking lines. Make no mistake, the Sedins look to be working hard, but to what end? Wearing themselves out having to keep up with players 10-15 years younger than they are? They don't have the size or physicality to be a checking line......so why exactly should they continue to play? They should continue to play because they are valuable to the team. Take out Daniel and Henrik... who you gonna slot in? You can't have a team full of 20 year olds... look how it was working out for the Coilers before drafting McDavid. If they sign for 1 mill each, that would be a dream. We could use the cap and win a cup next year. Cup or bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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