canuck73_3 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Just now, WHL rocks said: Not sure how old you are bit I've seen Canucks suck for decade(s). Thus team did tank. They sucked and traded off Hansen and Burrows. Not sure about your logic. You finish at bottom and you suck kids don't stunt. You finish at bottom you suck and you trade cpl veterans like Hansen and Burrows and kids dont stunt. Ibdont get it. Would Boesers game be stunted if we suck and trade a couple of vets on TDL? But it won't if we suck and Din t make a trade? Boeser and Bo are unique in that they are NHL ready the guys that would replace the vets are not. Also the vets we have can't replace via trade without selling low. Sedins- aren't going anywhere Edler- will not waive ntc Eriksson- ntc terrible trade value at this point Sutter- more valuable to this team and still young enough he's worth keeping and trade value would be a wash at best. Gagner- not really worth much but a token draft pick. Dorsett- not high value trade piece Vanek- probably the only vet worth trading Goldobin is our only prospect not on the team close to NHL ready. JB and TG are playing with the hand they're dealt this team was gutted by win now trades and mostly terrible drafting by Mike Gillis. JB's late picks look to be better than most of Mike Gillis' 1st round picks Bo being the one exception. I just don't see any logical reason to deviate from the current draft well and develop plan while still competing. The team has been far more entertaining this year and the plan seems to be coming together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Calgary has a very strong team right now. I do agree on the importance of proper development for our prospects. Good player development is critical. Calgary took over 17 years to get there one fluke run in 04 but besides that they'd been irrelevant since the 90's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Anyone notice this year that when the Canucks win, 't's the kids talking to the media, but when they lose they are the first to answer the hard questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 27 minutes ago, smokes said: Anyone notice this year that when the Canucks win, 't's the kids talking to the media, but when they lose they are the first to answer the hard questions? I have. Horvat does a lot if 1st intermission interviews. Boeser did one yesterday. Mgmt is getting the younger guys to do media. Developing a new leadership group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: Seems like you're not fully convinced? You speak of the only surefire road to long term success as "tanking" but have to re evaluate down the road?? To see if it's realistic? Oh, so it isn't as cut and dry as "just do it" then? But we should buy in? You pretty much just supported my argument right there. If team tank was the surefire way, you wouldn't have to do an assessment because if it didn't work, then it certainly isn't what you've promoted it as. No, you misinterpreted the statement. I'm fully committed to the tank, but there is no quick fix and it takes time. 2020 might be too soon and there's no way to tell until we get there. My attitude would be different if we won a cup before, but I'd like to see one cup in my lifetime. I'd rather have no playoffs for a decade and then a cup over playoffs for a decade and no cup. I equate anti tankers like little kids who would rather have one candy today over five candies tomorrow. It's short term and instant gratification instead of being in it for a bigger reward down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 hours ago, FireGillis said: 2020 might be too soon and there's no way to tell until we get there. I equate anti tankers like little kids who would rather have one candy today over five candies tomorrow. This does nothing for your argument, but we'll leave it at that as it's going off the rails... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Chiarelli made a mistake. He built a team without speed. I was worried JB had same mind set. But Canucks are being built with speed skill and size.. It's going to look good in 3 years if we can get a top 5 pick again this year. Especially if we get top 3 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said: This does nothing for your argument, but we'll leave it at that as it's going off the rails... Yeah we should because I've been on team tank for years and have had this same conversation with you before. You're never going to change my mind about tanking and I'm never going to change your mind, so we should leave it at that because it never goes anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Bae Bo Boeser Gran Elias Loui Vrt Gaudette Goldy Gagner Sutter Dorsett Gaunce Not sure that there is any room for them next year unfortunately the Loui and Gagner signings closed the door for them. However I think it"s probably right. Gagners quote when he was signed was something to the effect that they have discussed a role they have in mind for me and I'm 100% on board. I took that to mean he was expecting that his role was going to be to play low event mins because there was a good chance that if they were eventful it would be on the wrong side of the score sheet. Seems to be holding true I wish Loui wasn't quite such a wall flower though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 8 hours ago, Alflives said: Which team wins a Cup without elite players (playing key roles) coming from the top of the draft? I can think of the Bruins from 2011 as one. Any others? My point is, a team has almost no chance of winning a Cup without these high picks. Alfie its rare but once in a while you make a great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 hours ago, FireGillis said: Yeah we should because I've been on team tank for years and have had this same conversation with you before. You're never going to change my mind about tanking and I'm never going to change your mind, so we should leave it at that because it never goes anywhere. Ppl don't realise that we tanked already and are going to do it again this year. We had 3 top 6 pics last 4 years. That's a tank. We are going to get another one this year. After that let's see how it goes. Only way to get top end prospects is to get high draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 16 hours ago, WHL rocks said: Ppl don't realise that we tanked already and are going to do it again this year. We had 3 top 6 pics last 4 years. That's a tank. We are going to get another one this year. After that let's see how it goes. Only way to get top end prospects is to get high draft pick. Well, I am still advocating the tank but......................... The West Coast Express come to mind Naslund drafted by Pittsburgh. Approx 5 years later traded to Vancouver Bertuzzi drafted by NYI. Approx. 5 years later traded to Vancouver Morrison drafted by NJD. Approx 5 years later traded to Vancouver oh yes and the Henrik pick was own by the Islanders (3rd OA pick, which Vancouver traded for) It does happen other ways................just not very often...........sorry WHL That being said................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 11/19/2017 at 5:43 PM, canuck73_3 said: Calgary took over 17 years to get there one fluke run in 04 but besides that they'd been irrelevant since the 90's Calgary won in 89, then got to the finals in 04. That's 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 5 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said: Calgary won in 89, then got to the finals in 04. That's 15 years. I'm talking mid to late 90's to 2015/16, they had the fluke run in 04 but were mostly garbage from 97-2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 2017-11-19 at 2:12 PM, Alflives said: I get your drift; there are many different types of fans. True enough. I wonder, though, if all these different types of fans want their team to win the Cup? (I know I sure do.) Now, where the groups differ is in the method of building that Cup team. I certainly haven’t seen many Cup winners that don’t have at least one highly drafted elite player. I don’t believe we have that player (s) yet, so getting the best odds at drafting as high as possible is important to me. See, IMHAO, teams (like the Oilers) suffered for many years until they got McDavid. No, they are not guaranteed a Cup with him. However, without him (or elite level talent selected near the top of the draft) they have almost no chance of winning a Cup. We need to stay at the bottom until we too get 1 or more of these guys. Yes, during games, cheer wildly for us to win. However between games accept it is best for our future chances at winning a Cup that losing is best. So we have had 2 "elite players for awhile now and we had the WCE before that. Did that help us win a cup? We barely made it to the second round most years with the exception of 2011 of course.So is that elite player supposed to be a Center? A Winger? A defenseman? or do we need an "elite" goalie? I guess you said McDavid so I guess that means we need an "elite" center then. I think pretty much every team in the league has 1 or 2 "elite" players but still not do so well. We are in a cap era and I believe the team with the best 23 man roster will have the best chance of winning a cup. Throw in a lot of character and determination and I think you will go a long way in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, EdgarM said: So we have had 2 "elite players for awhile now and we had the WCE before that. Did that help us win a cup? We barely made it to the second round most years with the exception of 2011 of course.So is that elite player supposed to be a Center? A Winger? A defenseman? or do we need an "elite" goalie? I guess you said McDavid so I guess that means we need an "elite" center then. I think pretty much every team in the league has 1 or 2 "elite" players but still not do so well. We are in a cap era and I believe the team with the best 23 man roster will have the best chance of winning a cup. Throw in a lot of character and determination and I think you will go a long way in the playoffs. Who wins a Cup without at least one highly drafted elite player? Bruins in 2011. Gotta have those guys to win. That's the point. Will win no Cups with a bunch of good players. Unless the league cheats for you, like they did for the 2011 Bruins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Who wins a Cup without at least one highly drafted elite player? Bruins in 2011. Gotta have those guys to win. That's the point. Will win no Cups with a bunch of good players. Unless the league cheats for you, like they did for the 2011 Bruins. The Bruins won because the Canucks only scored 8 goals in 7 games. The refs don't have that much control over the game. If you only score 8 goals in a 7 game series there were way more issues than "biased refs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Who wins a Cup without at least one highly drafted elite player? Bruins in 2011. Gotta have those guys to win. That's the point. Will win no Cups with a bunch of good players. Unless the league cheats for you, like they did for the 2011 Bruins. Can you show some proof the direct correlation between "elite" players and winning a cup? Which "elite" player gives you the best chance? Like I said we had not one, but two, for many, many years now and still zippo for a cup. Almost every team has elite players on their team so no two "elite" players cannot be the same. So, I ask you again, can you elaborate on your theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said: The Bruins won because the Canucks only scored 8 goals in 7 games. The refs don't have that much control over the game. If you only score 8 goals in a 7 game series there were way more issues than "biased refs." That's why I believe its just not one or two players that make you contenders. Unless we just had the wrong "elite" players in 2011 which in that case we should be asking someone for a refund on ours and we want to trade them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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