VIC_CITY Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: If we are going to trade Gudbranson to Toronto, I'd be happy with Liljegren and a 2nd or Kapanen and a 1st. Yikes. If Shanahan offered Liljegren 1 for 1 Benning would take that deal and run. Kapanen AND a 1st? So 2 1st rounders for Guddy? He has zero points and horrible possession/advanced stats. Even if he was the baddest man on the planet, he wouldn't be worth that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 hours ago, hatedkid666 said: Im surprised so many people on here love Guddy so much, he has terrible possession numbers Probably has something to do with him playing hockey and not some non-existent sport called 'possession-ey'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, aGENT said: Probably has something to do with him playing hockey and not some non-existent sport called 'possession-ey'. I just don't see how his toughness outweighs all of his weaknesses to the tune of $5M or whatever he ends up signing for. I've heard the argument that he clears lanes, allowing goalies to get better looks at shots, but if that were the case then less goals would be scored when he was on the ice. He's a decent 3rd pairing guy IMO but that's only because of his toughness. He's our worst dman when it comes to exiting the zone and skating the puck up the ice. He's our worst dman offensively. He's on the ice for the most shots against. You can't just ignore all of that because he's tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: I just don't see how his toughness outweighs all of his weaknesses to the tune of $5M or whatever he ends up signing for. I've heard the argument that he clears lanes, allowing goalies to get better looks at shots, but if that were the case then less goals would be scored when he was on the ice. He's a decent 3rd pairing guy IMO but that's only because of his toughness. He's our worst dman when it comes to exiting the zone and skating the puck up the ice. He's our worst dman offensively. He's on the ice for the most shots against. You can't just ignore all of that because he's tough. Florida did, and how did that work out for them? Hockey is tough game, and guys like Guddy (who can play) are valuable. I think it's either Guddy or Baer this coming new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: Florida did, and how did that work out for them? Hockey is tough game, and guys like Guddy (who can play) are valuable. I think it's either Guddy or Baer this coming new year. Well, technically they didn't since they traded him I know Guddy is valuable, it's just a matter of how valuable. What do you mean, you think him or Baer will be traded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: I just don't see how his toughness outweighs all of his weaknesses to the tune of $5M or whatever he ends up signing for. I've heard the argument that he clears lanes, allowing goalies to get better looks at shots, but if that were the case then less goals would be scored when he was on the ice. He's a decent 3rd pairing guy IMO but that's only because of his toughness. He's our worst dman when it comes to exiting the zone and skating the puck up the ice. He's our worst dman offensively. He's on the ice for the most shots against. You can't just ignore all of that because he's tough. It's not ignoring anything, it's looking at context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 39 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: I just don't see how his toughness outweighs all of his weaknesses to the tune of $5M or whatever he ends up signing for. I've heard the argument that he clears lanes, allowing goalies to get better looks at shots, but if that were the case then less goals would be scored when he was on the ice. He's a decent 3rd pairing guy IMO but that's only because of his toughness. He's our worst dman when it comes to exiting the zone and skating the puck up the ice. He's our worst dman offensively. He's on the ice for the most shots against. You can't just ignore all of that because he's tough. He does have the best on-ice save percentage on the team at a fantastic .968. I guess people could say he's just been lucky but it supports this claim so far. Last year this stat was really low (880) but he was playing with a mangled wrist. The previous 2 years to that with Florida his goalies had .932 and .926 save percentages for the year with him on the ice - pretty nice. (Luongo had a .921 those years and dipped to .915 without him last year) and Montoya's save percentages were worse. So, in all, it does kind of support this claim. He's also had 59% D-zone starts this season which helps to explain his corsi - he's a career 48% corsi guy which is hardly terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, ilduce39 said: He does have the best on-ice save percentage on the team at a fantastic .968. I guess people could say he's just been lucky but it supports this claim so far. Last year this stat was really low (880) but he was playing with a mangled wrist. The previous 2 years to that with Florida his goalies had .932 and .926 save percentages for the year - pretty nice. (Luongo had a .921 those years and dipped to .915 without him last year) and Montoya's save percentages were worse. So, in all, it does kind of support this claim. He's also had 59% D-zone starts this season which helps to explain his corsi - he's a career 48% corsi guy which is hardly terrible. where do you get those stats from? I'd like to look up some other players. never mind - got it on hockey reference. this does support the idea that the shot quality is way down for opposing teams when Guddy is out there. Loui E is right behind him at .962. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatedkid666 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, aGENT said: Probably has something to do with him playing hockey and not some non-existent sport called 'possession-ey'. Thats funny and all but all the best teams and best players in league have good possession numbers. If you have the puck more often than you don't then you are doing something right. We don't need Gudbranson at all, we need dmen who can skate up and down the ice fast and move the puck even faster and Guddy can do neither. Its a speed game now not a game of physicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 5 hours ago, coryberg said: Gudbranson has 2 fights in 19 games this season. That works out to 9 in 82 games. KB3 was a good middleweight fighter but would get throttled by guddy Except that's not how it works. Fights are so hit and miss nowadays that Guddy could go the rest of the season without even fighting. The problem with Gud is what he'll ask for next season. Probably not worth what he actually brings to the table. Gudbranson +++ for any of Nylander or Marner. The Leafs know that they will eventually be unable to afford Matthews+Nylander+Marner if they want to invest in their dire defence. I'm sure they don't want to end up like the Oilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"The Vase" Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 If we ever make playoffs while he’s here, Guddy’s worth to our squad will be 4x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 30 minutes ago, guntrix said: Except that's not how it works. Fights are so hit and miss nowadays that Guddy could go the rest of the season without even fighting. The problem with Gud is what he'll ask for next season. Probably not worth what he actually brings to the table. Gudbranson +++ for any of Nylander or Marner. The Leafs know that they will eventually be unable to afford Matthews+Nylander+Marner if they want to invest in their dire defence. I'm sure they don't want to end up like the Oilers. I am sure they'd rather want Tanev+ though. Nylander and Marner are already top 6 players offensively. Loved to have either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 30 minutes ago, guntrix said: Except that's not how it works. Fights are so hit and miss nowadays that Guddy could go the rest of the season without even fighting. How much of your hard earned money would you put on that happening? I'm sure the Vegas odds would be 30 to 1 at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 1:41 PM, Green Building said: 4 1st round picks They re-hire Burke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, coryberg said: How much of your hard earned money would you put on that happening? I'm sure the Vegas odds would be 30 to 1 at least. Not a lot, but I'd bet the house on Guddy not fighting 9 times this season, as per your calculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Miyagi: "So why train?" Daniel-san: "So... I don't have to fight." Punks like Taychuck and Ferklund are magically brought to heel when Gudbranson's around. Only need 2-3 of them sprinkled around the lineup to keep the peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, aGENT said: It's not ignoring anything, it's looking at context. Any player making what Gudbranson is about to make should have far more positives than negatives to his game. He is above average in toughness and average or below in basically everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 hours ago, peaches5 said: What are you talking about? McCann was picked 24th overall and Liljegren was picked 17th overall. Even if Gudbranson was an RFA like he was when we traded for him, which he isn't, trading him for Liljegren would not be his value dropping. A 1st, 24th overall, and a 2nd, 33rd overall, for Gudbranson is near the the same value for a first, 17th overall. Then you know Liljegren was scouted to be taken in the top 10 even top 5 by some so trading Gudbranson for him would be a pretty great trade for us. The fact Gudbranson is UFA means that The Leafs trading Liljegren for him is pretty stupid but hey if they want to do that it's pretty awesome for us and definitely great value. Can't even sign him yet and your already calling him a write off on getting him signed and him becoming a UFA on us. Nothing points towards the fact he's not happy here, And your asking what I'm talking about ? You need to stop worrying about issues that are not issues yet cheers mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, hatedkid666 said: Thats funny and all but all the best teams and best players in league have good possession numbers. If you have the puck more often than you don't then you are doing something right. We don't need Gudbranson at all, we need dmen who can skate up and down the ice fast and move the puck even faster and Guddy can do neither. Its a speed game now not a game of physicality. The best teams also have a 'nuclear deterrent' or two sprinkled throughout their lineups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 hours ago, VIC_CITY said: Yikes. If Shanahan offered Liljegren 1 for 1 Benning would take that deal and run. Kapanen AND a 1st? So 2 1st rounders for Guddy? He has zero points and horrible possession/advanced stats. Even if he was the baddest man on the planet, he wouldn't be worth that much. Kapanen was drafted 22nd overall over 3 years ago. He's had one good season in the AHL and has put up 1 goal in 20 NHL games. He's about equivalent to Goldobin at this point who San Jose was willing to trade for Jannik Hansen. Adding the first should be around the 20-25th overall especially if they are trying to bolster their lineup early on with an acquisition of Gudbranson. Gudbranson has shown he can't play well in the playoffs with Florida and you need those dmen that can play hard come postseason. Liljegren and a 2nd might be much, but it depends how much they value in trying to win now while Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are affordable. Toronto could consider making this deal earlier on instead of at the deadline when there could be even more suitors driving up the price of a hard nosed dman to increase their playoff drive. The Canucks have been talking about trying to make the playoffs this year, so it will take a nice price to pry a piece that is key in achieving that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.