underrated Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Dallas showed in the off-season that they're serious about being a contender. Adding Radulov, Methot and Bishop as three quality veterans showed their in win-now mode. The problem is that they aren't winning. Two seasons ago they finished top in the West with 109 points. Benn and Seguin are entering their prime. There's no selling or rebuild here. They need to turn things around fast. One major problem they have is Jason Spezza. He is averaging 13:18 of ice time and has only 9 points in 22 games. He has two years remaining on his contract at 7.5 million per year. The Canucks aren't going to win the cup in the next couple years...let's face it and focus on the future. I know we are off to a good start, but let's not sacrifice the long term due to shortsightedness. I suggest we make a big trade with Dallas to help them now, while really maximize long term value for ourselves by also taking on a bad contract. Trade Proposal To Dallas: Alex Edler Brandon Sutter Thomas Vanek 2018 3rd round pick (11.375 Million Cap Hit) To Vancouver: Jason Spezza (huge cap dump 7.5 million through next year while playing 13 minutes per night and not producing) Julius Honka (top defensive prospect) Jason Robertson (6'2 winger, 2nd round pick in 2017) 2018 first round pick (top ten protected, and top five protected in 2019) Antoine Roussel (also underachieving this year, a pending UFA, needed to be included for salary purposes) (10.709 Cap Hit plus Robertson in Minors) Why for Dallas? They double down their win-now mentality with this trade, by dealing their albatross contract for the underachieving Spezza along with three high value draft pieces in exchange for a #1 pairing defender, a good two way centerman to replace Spezza in the lineup, a scoring winger potentially to even play on their top line this year, and a draft pick. Both Sutter and Edler are signed on beyond this year so they aren't rentals. Sutter is only 27 and signed for several years. Edler makes their defense significantly better. Sutter is an upgrade on Spezza (shockingly), and Vanek gives a sniper to give high end scoring talent to go with their star players and bump Janmark and Shore farther down the lineup where they belong. Dallas also has good high end talent but not very good depth. Adding three veteran players for one and a rookie is a good move to fill out their roster. Why for Vancouver? This trade is a huge boost to the rebuild. The Canucks lose a long-time top defender and a good centerman in his prime, as well as take on a very bad contract however it's all worth it to add three very good long term assets. Honka projects to be a top pairing defender and would fit perfectly with Juolevi as a Finnish elite young pair. Robertson is already proving to be worth even higher than the second round placement he was drafted with (80th overall prospect in league according to here), and a first round pick. Dallas is protected in case their season still doesn't turn it around, as they don't give up a top ten pick this year. These three additional high quality prospects will be worth it to lose two quality players now while taking on a bad contract. Roussel can be sold at the deadline for a draft pick. Was a good player last year, only playing 11 minutes this year. Thoughts on the value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underrated Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 Short term this trade would leave our roster as: Baertschi - Horvat - Boeser Sedin - Sedin - Spezza (or Virtanen here and Spezza third line) Dorsett - Granlund - Virtanen Eriksson - Gagner/Burmistrov - Gaunce/Burmistrov Stecher - Tanev Hutton - Pouliot Gudbranson - Jonka Markstrom - Nilsson Prospects/Young Players in long term projected lineup Dahlen - Petterson - Boeser Baertschi - Horvat - Goldobin Robertson - Cassels - Virtanen (Tanev still around as anchor d-man?) Juolevi - Jonka Stecher - Hutton Tryamkin come back? Demko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Nirvanagut Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 It's funny, I thought about Spezza being a Canuck the other day. Why would Spezza play winger? Tryamkin isn't coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hmm, that would certainly be a nice haul. Would it work cap wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuckForReal!!! Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 3 hours ago, underrated said: Dallas showed in the off-season that they're serious about being a contender. Adding Radulov, Methot and Bishop as three quality veterans showed their in win-now mode. The problem is that they aren't winning. Two seasons ago they finished top in the West with 109 points. Benn and Seguin are entering their prime. There's no selling or rebuild here. They need to turn things around fast. One major problem they have is Jason Spezza. He is averaging 13:18 of ice time and has only 9 points in 22 games. He has two years remaining on his contract at 7.5 million per year. The Canucks aren't going to win the cup in the next couple years...let's face it and focus on the future. I know we are off to a good start, but let's not sacrifice the long term due to shortsightedness. I suggest we make a big trade with Dallas to help them now, while really maximize long term value for ourselves by also taking on a bad contract. Trade Proposal To Dallas: Alex Edler Brandon Sutter Thomas Vanek 2018 3rd round pick (11.375 Million Cap Hit) To Vancouver: Jason Spezza (huge cap dump 7.5 million through next year while playing 13 minutes per night and not producing) Julius Honka (top defensive prospect) Jason Robertson (6'2 winger, 2nd round pick in 2017) 2018 first round pick (top ten protected, and top five protected in 2019) Antoine Roussel (also underachieving this year, a pending UFA, needed to be included for salary purposes) (10.709 Cap Hit plus Robertson in Minors) Why for Dallas? They double down their win-now mentality with this trade, by dealing their albatross contract for the underachieving Spezza along with three high value draft pieces in exchange for a #1 pairing defender, a good two way centerman to replace Spezza in the lineup, a scoring winger potentially to even play on their top line this year, and a draft pick. Both Sutter and Edler are signed on beyond this year so they aren't rentals. Sutter is only 27 and signed for several years. Edler makes their defense significantly better. Sutter is an upgrade on Spezza (shockingly), and Vanek gives a sniper to give high end scoring talent to go with their star players and bump Janmark and Shore farther down the lineup where they belong. Dallas also has good high end talent but not very good depth. Adding three veteran players for one and a rookie is a good move to fill out their roster. Why for Vancouver? This trade is a huge boost to the rebuild. The Canucks lose a long-time top defender and a good centerman in his prime, as well as take on a very bad contract however it's all worth it to add three very good long term assets. Honka projects to be a top pairing defender and would fit perfectly with Juolevi as a Finnish elite young pair. Robertson is already proving to be worth even higher than the second round placement he was drafted with (80th overall prospect in league according to here), and a first round pick. Dallas is protected in case their season still doesn't turn it around, as they don't give up a top ten pick this year. These three additional high quality prospects will be worth it to lose two quality players now while taking on a bad contract. Roussel can be sold at the deadline for a draft pick. Was a good player last year, only playing 11 minutes this year. Thoughts on the value? This trade would be amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuckForReal!!! Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 6 hours ago, zzbottom said: It's funny, I thought about Spezza being a Canuck the other day. Why would Spezza play winger? Tryamkin isn't coming back. Why don't you think it's a nice trade? Or are you just downvoting me because I downvoted you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underrated Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Pears said: Hmm, that would certainly be a nice haul. Would it work cap wise? It's very close, because Dallas has only around $500,000 cap space and they add around $600,000 with this deal but it shouldn't be a problem when you factor in injuries, such as Methots injury right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underrated Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 7 hours ago, zzbottom said: It's funny, I thought about Spezza being a Canuck the other day. Why would Spezza play winger? Tryamkin isn't coming back. Spezza is only on the wing to keep him in the top two lines (with Horvat and Henrik as #1 and #2 centers) however he could slide down the roster. I believe he's being played a bit at wing right now in Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 How about we send Eriksson back to Dallas? Would that be possible? Would like to see Roussel in our bottom 6 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 On 11/25/2017 at 11:02 AM, underrated said: It's very close, because Dallas has only around $500,000 cap space and they add around $600,000 with this deal but it shouldn't be a problem when you factor in injuries, such as Methots injury right now. Injured players count against the cap. They only have 22 healthy players on the roster because they don't have the cap space to recall someone and are probably trying to accrue cap space for the deadline and/or in case of further injury. Has there been any indication that Dallas is upset with Honka? They are lacking D prospects with some players not really turning out as expected re they really wanted to draft a D. Isn't he close to making the jump. Not sure they would want to trade him for an older player. Cassels will probably be let go at the end of the season. He doesn't seem to have the foot speed to be efficient at the pro-level. Dallas liked Roussel in the playoffs because he gets under opponents' skin. I don't think they would want to move him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underrated Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 9 hours ago, mll said: Injured players count against the cap. They only have 22 healthy players on the roster because they don't have the cap space to recall someone and are probably trying to accrue cap space for the deadline and/or in case of further injury. Has there been any indication that Dallas is upset with Honka? They are lacking D prospects with some players not really turning out as expected re they really wanted to draft a D. Isn't he close to making the jump. Not sure they would want to trade him for an older player. Cassels will probably be let go at the end of the season. He doesn't seem to have the foot speed to be efficient at the pro-level. Dallas liked Roussel in the playoffs because he gets under opponents' skin. I don't think they would want to move him. It's close enough of a cap situation that it would work, likely already with how many games have passed this season. For sure they like Honka, but he's the biggest key piece in this deal for them to acquire the players. Deal wouldn't happen without him. Fair enough, I was just filling out the bottom of the futures depth chart. I agree, they'd hold onto Roussel if they could. And in this deal they can if they don't acquire Vanek, but I figured they'd be willing to make that deal even though they lose Roussel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Was it Spezza who said he didn't want to play for any Cdn teams(or thinking of Nash)? Anywhoo, NMC with a 10-team, no-go list. fwiw Also Edler might refuse. Other than them niggling details, these are the types of trades I'd like to see them entertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I actually don't mind this at all. The only thing I was thinking is that while Spezza is not having a great year so far, he really did put up respectable numbers otherwise so I wonder what kind of value they place on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Get rid of the pick going to Dallas and this is balanced given reasons you noted. However, Edler is not going to waive (if he does at all) to go to a team that MIGHT pull it together. Why leave your home, where your kids go to school, where you just did a reno etc. to miss the playoffs in another city away from your family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 2017-11-26 at 7:21 PM, Nuxfanabroad said: Was it Spezza who said he didn't want to play for any Cdn teams(or thinking of Nash)? Anywhoo, NMC with a 10-team, no-go list. fwiw Actually, his NMC is a little different. Excert from thehockeynews.com, which was quoting Elliott Friedman: Quote Spezza carries a $7.5-million annual cap hit through 2018-19 plus a full no-movement clause. Friedman points out there's a period between mid-June and Sept. 1 when he must submit a 10-team no-trade list. After Sept. 1, it reverts back to a full no-move. So really, his 10 team no trade list means he will only agree to get traded to 20 other teams in the off-season. So right now, he carries a full NMC and would have to approve any team. And considering his age, I can’t see him agreeing to get traded from an expected contender in Dallas to a definite non-contender in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheif16 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 25.11.2017 at 2:59 AM, underrated said: Short term this trade would leave our roster as: Baertschi - Horvat - Boeser Sedin - Sedin - Spezza (or Virtanen here and Spezza third line) Dorsett - Granlund - Virtanen Eriksson - Gagner/Burmistrov - Gaunce/Burmistrov Stecher - Tanev Hutton - Pouliot Gudbranson - Jonka Markstrom - Nilsson Prospects/Young Players in long term projected lineup Dahlen - Petterson - Boeser Baertschi - Horvat - Goldobin Robertson - Cassels - Virtanen (Tanev still around as anchor d-man?) Juolevi - Jonka Stecher - Hutton Tryamkin come back? Demko I can't see cassels in the 3rd line or even in the future canucks lineup. There are a lot of guys above him in the rankings, like gaudette, lind, gadjovich, lockwood,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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