There's an outstanding warrant out for a Benning... Jim

[Crabcakes]

5 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

His biggest blunder to date may have been Forsling for Clendening. Not too bad for JB all around.

This trade only proves that Benning is indeed human.  Impatience due to lack of team depth.  Not losing sleep over it.  Like Pouliot better.

[Crabcakes]

16 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

#fakenews

Is that you Donald Trump?

[Crabcakes]

13 hours ago, apollo said:

Ermagerd.... 

 

Also gotta give Jimbo credit for our goaltending situation as well. Bringing Nilsson was a very calculated move... and he was the one that re-signed Marky too.

Chirelli or Treliving would look good if they could have hooked Nilsson.  Damn.

[darkpoet]

5 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

His biggest blunder to date may have been Forsling for Clendening. Not too bad for JB all around.

I mentioned Forsling in my post as a draft pick but didn't give him mention because people so over-react to that trade thinking we somehow got robbed.

Clandening 
25 years old
24 points in 86 NHL games total = .21 PPG

Forsling
21 years old
13 points in 63 NHL games total = .28 PPG

The thing about Forsling, is that he is putting up the same amount of points per season whether he's in the minors or the NHL. Difference being, his +/- is barely above water in the NHL (+6 in 53 games with the Hawks over parts of 2 seasons), but -13 in 30 games with Rockford last year, 2016/2017.

Clandening meanwhile, has only been a - player twice in his entire pro career going back to 2012 (Also with Rockford, interesting connection)
He was a -4 in Rockford in 2015 and a -1 for the Coyotes last year. But overall is a + 38 in his pro career.

If you think about it, Clandening is the better player of the two. So who really lost there?

Time will tell I suppose, but looking at the stats and performance, neither one of these guys is outshining the other. I think sometimes people just jump on the media train and assume everything some asswipe with a website says, is gospel.





 

[jmahyoung]

13 hours ago, Alflives said:

How Pouliot came to us for so cheap?  Weren’t other teams interested in him too?  

Other teams knew Pouliot was going on waivers and wanted to take a chance to pick him up for nothing. We offered Pittsburgh something, which is a lot better than losing him for nothing.

[darkpoet]

9 minutes ago, jmahyoung said:

Other teams knew Pouliot was going on waivers and wanted to take a chance to pick him up for nothing. We offered Pittsburgh something, which is a lot better than losing him for nothing.

Like a boss

[Phat Fingers]

5 hours ago, darkpoet said:

I got news I was getting renovicted Tuesday (before the game) so I'm a bit on edge.

Honestly, i only intended to make a quick reply..... but one thing led to another and it turned into a bit of a welcome afternoon obsession/distraction.
I love hockey, but right now, I *$# hate people. 

Go Canucks!
And to the vindictive female POS living upstairs that finally, after 2 years, found a way to have me evicted, good on you. Merry Christmas. 
Someday maybe you'll be faced with a similar circumstance during the holidays , and it'll be your turn to find a new home to live in that you can afford with a 1% vacancy rate, while dealing with a BS denied Ei claim, trying to provide for yourself and 2 dependents, and no work on the horizon for 3 months.

/rant


glad you enjoyed my post 

 

Hey,

 

That is $&!#ty news.  I haven’t lived on the west coast for years.  Went east to Nova Scotia.  It’s been all over the news about housing in Vancouver. 

 

Wish you all the best.  Keep pushing that rock up

hill.  

 

EmW

[Neko]

I think Pouliot has turned out to be a hell of a steal.

 

^ and yeah housing here in Vancouver is beyond ridiculous, everyone's looking for loopholes to raise rent and there's well over 25,000 empty houses/apartments owned by oversea investors- and you're SOL if you have pets, nobody accepts pets.  And the average wage is lower than Toronto and Montreal yet is the top 5 most expensive city in the world.

[khay]

Theft? He didn't still from nobody!! He paid price to get these assets; it was just those morons (mainly Calgary) undervalued their own assets and overvalued ours. Police should put out a warrant for Calgary and have them arrested for their moroness as they are on a moron-spree! The list of crimes they commit is increasing with the latest one added being the trade of a first round and two seconds round picks for Hamonic. At this rate, that first round pick could become a lottery ticket. If that pick somehow becomes one of top 3 picks, then the rest of the league just has Calgary to thank for making the Islanders stronger than they already are. 

 

Jokes aside, JB has definitely done a great job. There are only 4 players remaining from the previous regime: Daniel, Henrik, Tanev, and Edler. Of course, Bo Horvat and Ben Hutton were drafted by the previous regime but they weren't on the active roster. So that is influx of 19 new players. I can't remember the last time something like this happened.  

 

Obviously, the most amazing thing about JB is that he is able to draft about 2 NHL caliber players on average from the draft:

 

2014: Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling.

2015: Boeser. Briesbois and Gaudette have not made the NHL yet, but I'd say there is > 50% chance that at least one of the two makes it at some point.

2016: Juolevi. Maybe Lockwood. But this year, we did not have a second round pick.

2017: Pettersson. There is a very high probability that at least one of Lind, Gadjovich, and Dipietro makes it.

 

Any GM that can draft one NHL caliber player per draft will be able to built a pretty decent team. In JB's case, he has been able to draft high caliber NHL players in every draft:

 

2014: Demko and Tryamkin are 1G and top 4D (maybe top 2 or 3D)

2015: Boeser is a 1RW.

2016: Juolevi is a top 2D and PPQB.

2017: Pettersson is a 1C/LW.

 

Of course, he has had top 6 picks in 3 of the 4 seasons but it doesn't take away the fact that he has consistently drafted at least one high caliber NHL players from every draft thus far as well as really good depth players.

 

If JB continues this trend of keeping the pipeline filled with prospects, the cup is surely coming to Vancouver during his tenure as the GM.

 

[TheYjUstMaKeYoUwooZy]

20 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

If you're going to play this game...  There's also a warrant out for his arrest for Stupidity Causing Greivous Harm for choosing Virtanen 6th overall!

Maybe we should wait until he is in his mid-twenties before making that decision.  Or just trust in Benning making a complete team.  The Sabers and Oilers are perfect examples of how high picks and super skilled players doesn't always mean a Stanley cup. 

If Virtanen develops  into solid 20 goal 2-way power forward who plays a hard and fast game then I am more than happy with the pick...

[Gaudette Celly]

12 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

Charges dropped for paying Erickson and Sutter contracts

And even with those, the Canucks have plenty of capspace upcoming, even after signing RFAs this year and looking down the road at space for our best prospects.

[Gaudette Celly]

Forsling is a bottom-pairing dman, in allegedly the same category as those who claim are "easily available for free in free agency, like Sutter, Gudbranson, Gaunce, and Sbisa."

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Forsling is a bottom-pairing dman, in allegedly the same category as those who claim are "easily available for free in free agency, like Sutter, Gudbranson, Gaunce, and Sbisa."

The difference between those players is “potential”. Virtanen today is a 3rd/4th line energy player but the fact the we believe there is more to him makes him more valuable.  You don’t often find high potential under 22 year old in free agency (unless they are coming out of Europe or the khl)

[mll]

8 hours ago, darkpoet said:

I mentioned Forsling in my post as a draft pick but didn't give him mention because people so over-react to that trade thinking we somehow got robbed.

Clandening 
25 years old
24 points in 86 NHL games total = .21 PPG

Forsling
21 years old
13 points in 63 NHL games total = .28 PPG

The thing about Forsling, is that he is putting up the same amount of points per season whether he's in the minors or the NHL. Difference being, his +/- is barely above water in the NHL (+6 in 53 games with the Hawks over parts of 2 seasons), but -13 in 30 games with Rockford last year, 2016/2017.

Clandening meanwhile, has only been a - player twice in his entire pro career going back to 2012 (Also with Rockford, interesting connection)
He was a -4 in Rockford in 2015 and a -1 for the Coyotes last year. But overall is a + 38 in his pro career.

If you think about it, Clandening is the better player of the two. So who really lost there?

Time will tell I suppose, but looking at the stats and performance, neither one of these guys is outshining the other. I think sometimes people just jump on the media train and assume everything some asswipe with a website says, is gospel.

 

Forsling is playing upwards of 20min a night.  He is 4th in TOI among the Chicago Ds over the season, but since November he is actually 2nd in TOI just behind Keith. 

 

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, jmahyoung said:

Other teams knew Pouliot was going on waivers and wanted to take a chance to pick him up for nothing. We offered Pittsburgh something, which is a lot better than losing him for nothing.

Pouliot was going on waivers!  Wow!  The kid is really good, and he's very young for a Dman.  You think other teams (Edmonton) would want him, considering how crappy their dcore is. 

[JM_]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Pouliot was going on waivers!  Wow!  The kid is really good, and he's very young for a Dman.  You think other teams (Edmonton) would want him, considering how crappy their dcore is. 

he was. He would have been picked up by Colorado first though, there's no doubt about that so getting this kid for Pedan and 4th was a great deal imo. I'm sure Edmonton would love to have him but I doubt they would have Green's patience. 

[Nucker 67]

Benning's best trade?

 

Hansen to SJ for Goldobin and a 4th. The 4th was traded to the NYR for a 5th and 6th, which turned out to be Gunnarsson and Palmu.

 

3 very good prospects for Hansen, a former 9th rounder.

 

Fleece

[oldnews]

10 hours ago, jmahyoung said:

Other teams knew Pouliot was going on waivers and wanted to take a chance to pick him up for nothing. We offered Pittsburgh something, which is a lot better than losing him for nothing.

I get your point - but you're making an assumption that you don't know.  Pittsburgh was looking at their options - one of which would have been to waive Pouliot.

I don't buy that that would have been their first course of action.

 

I said this at the time and I think it holds truth/stands up - if I'm the Penguins there is no chance in hell I waive Pouliot when I can waive Chad Rhuwedel.

 

Which makes this deal more impressive imo because Benning did not in fact have as much leverage as some people around here want to believe for some reason.

 

Rutherford was not between such a rock and a hard place - an easy out was to waive a 27 year old journeyman who is decent depth (no disrespect to Rhuwedel) - but a guy that has 13 career point in 88 games at 27 years of age, with nothing particularly impressive about his game....he is an undersized depth D with average underlying numbers, not much production - ie serviceable.  He may have been a better third pairing fit in Rutherford's mind, but he's also a slightly better than replacement defenseman that can be found any offseason in free agency.  I'm not sure I'd deal Biega for him one for one.  8th on Pitt's depth chart last year and 7th this year - not an asset you retain in order to waive a player like Pouliot. 

Benning worked Rutherford over on this one, and the idea that Rutherford 'owed' Benning one for the Bonino deal is just plain laughable.

 

This is on Rutherford.  It is a horrible, impatient and costly move on his part.

And where Benning is concerned, the price he paid is all the more impressive given the fact I refer to above - that he didn't really have the leverage people perceive, and Rutherford had other, clearly bettter options than dumping an 8th overall with the kind of talent and skillset Pouliot has.  This is a case of severely undervaluing an asset simply because you have the likes of Letang and Schultz around - and it's the kind of thing that will cost that franchise in the longer run.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

I get your point - but you're making an assumption that you don't know.  Pittsburgh was looking at their options - one of which would have been to waive Pouliot.

I don't buy that that would have been their first course of action.

 

I said this at the time and I think it holds truth/stands up - if I'm the Penguins there is no chance in hell I waive Pouliot when I can waive Chad Rhuwedel.

Both of you are making assumptions. And no know really knows the actual answer But I’m with jmahyoung. I do think pits was about to waive him since he was getting outplayed in preseason. reports were pointing the penguins going in that direction. 

 

http://pittsburghhockeynow.com/penguins-trade-derrick-pouliot/

Quote

The Penguins re-assigned 21 players to the Wilkes Barre/Scranton Penguins, Tuesday, including Daniel Sprong, Teddy Blueger, and Zac Aston-Reese. In the process, the Penguins likely signaled a coming trade. Defenseman Derrick Pouliot remained in the NHL camp but that certainly isn’t because his play earned the honor. It has more to do with maintaining Pouliot’s trade value and in the process, the Penguins have signaled a trade is in the works.

Cards are on the table. Could we finally learn the identity of the Penguins third line center?

 

Logic dictates, if a trade were not imminent, Pouliot would have been sent through waivers for re-assignment to WBS, as were Zach Trotman and Jarred Tinordi. And only because a trade is imminent would the Penguins fear to lose Pouliot for nothing.

Otherwise, any team would be happy to rid itself of Pouliot and the one-way $800,000 contract. Relieved, actually.

Now, the Penguins have less than a week to complete the deal. They certainly do not want to use one of their 23 roster spots on the defenseman. Even if winger Patric Hornqvist begins the season on IR, keeping Pouliot on the NHL roster would deny the Penguins an NHL capable player.

The great poker game is down to the river card. The Penguins have a week to finally bring the off-season drama to a close, acquire a third line center, and allow Pouliot a fresh start, elsewhere. Or, they could lose the defenseman for nothing because he hasn’t earned a Penguins roster spot and another team is willing to take a chance.

 

The hockey writers had a break down on this trade and said as much.

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/pittsburgh-penguins-derrick-pouliot-look-back/

Quote

Getting a return for Pouliot instead of losing him for nothing on waivers was a smart move on the Penguins’ part. After all, look at the case of Schultz, sometimes struggling players need a change of scenery.

It’s about earning a spot. We saw etem get waived for skille and even pedan waived for beiga. It happens and JB was good enough to recognize this and take advantage of it. 

 

[oldnews]

10 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Both of you are making assumptions. And no know really knows the actual answer But I’m with jmahyoung. I do think pits was about to waive him since he was getting outplayed in preseason. reports were pointing the penguins going in that direction. 

 

http://pittsburghhockeynow.com/penguins-trade-derrick-pouliot/

 

The hockey writers had a break down on this trade and said as much.

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/pittsburgh-penguins-derrick-pouliot-look-back/

 

Getting a return for Pouliot instead of losing him for nothing on waivers was a smart move on the Penguins’ part. After all, look at the case of Schultz, sometimes struggling players need a change of scenery.

You simply post an additional assumption / a counter-assumption.

 

The assumption of a THN writer (your source of opinion isn't really relevent) - not only in hindsight - but sets a zero result as it's baselin / the criteria to 'improve' upon -  vs lost on waivers for nothing.

 

Assumption - that the only alternative was to get nothing and lose a player on waivers - or that that is the value that deal should be weighed against in Pittsburgh.  Two options - the market, or retaining the player. 

 

Additional option - retain said player, have some patience, develop the player.  if you don't then surely a GM is going to be questioned if that player almost immediately shows as good of outcomes as Pouliot has.   Forsberg loves to look back and judge GMs after the fact, in hindsight - and yet here we are in the relative present, and we're supposed to apologize for the deal with a zero result as the expected outcome to weigh this against.  Hmmm.  I don't see Benning judged on those kind of grounds around here   There were greater expectations on returns for injured veterans with NTCs at the deadline.

 

Ah, doesn't seem to cross certain minds.  Waive a less valuable asset (sorry, but using Pedan as a comparable.... is as bad as this deal was for Pittsburgh)

 

So Rutherford did well there - because he got more than nothing.  Gotcha.  Good standard.