US Recognizes Jerusalem As Capital of Israel

[Dral]

5 hours ago, Mustapha said:

You better be careful, Dral. Your opinion sounds an awful lot like 'Islamophobia'..you might be asked to report to a local government office for 're-education'....

You're either islamophobic or antisemitic, there's no possible way to have an opinion not based on absolutely hating at least someone nowadays... or at least, that's what all the cool kids are doing

[DarthNinja]

On 12/9/2017 at 1:38 AM, taxi said:

I think you have a very romanticised view of what the world was like in 600 AD. It was a very brutal place. Caliph Umar may have been ahead of his time, but everything is relative. The world even 100 years ago was pretty shocking.

Not at all and this is not about what life was like 100 years ago. This is about the safety of Jerusalem and the justice therein for the people of all religions and the fact remains that it was the safest at that time. There can be no romanticizing the notion that if there is no real or true justice there will be no safety or security. 

[taxi]

1 hour ago, DarthNinja said:

Not at all and this is not about what life was like 100 years ago. This is about the safety of Jerusalem and the justice therein for the people of all religions and the fact remains that it was the safest at that time. There can be no romanticizing the notion that if there is no real or true justice there will be no safety or security. 

And Israel won't provide a fair settlement until their security needs are met..a real chicken and egg scenario. Jerusalem was most certainly not the safest in the middle ages. I'm not sure how you can state that is a fact. Only a small number of Jewish families were allowed to move back into Jerusalem and they had to live as Dhimmi.

[Alflives]

On 12/18/2017 at 7:12 AM, Dral said:

You're either islamophobic or antisemitic, there's no possible way to have an opinion not based on absolutely hating at least someone nowadays... or at least, that's what all the cool kids are doing

I think the human species is just bad.  Maybe that's why shows like Star Trek, that depict a better future are popular?  Realistically though, our species will likely destroy itself.  

[Dral]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I think the human species is just bad.  Maybe that's why shows like Star Trek, that depict a better future are popular?  Realistically though, our species will likely destroy itself.  

"bad" is a concept created by the human species... so is "good"... we are whatever you want us to be...

 

history tells us species die off every 300 million years or so anyways... whether we destroy our selves or not

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, Dral said:

"bad" is a concept created by the human species... so is "good"... we are whatever you want us to be...

 

history tells us species die off every 300 million years or so anyways... whether we destroy our selves or not

You think humans will last 300 million years?  How long have we been here anyway?  100,000 years or something?  How much longer?  

[Warhippy]

Personally.  I say carpet bomb the entire frigging city, nuke it until it glows and screw both sides.  Let them cry over the remains.

 

Israel acting out apartheid screaming "don't forget germany" while Palestinians vote in a terror cell to lead them out of anger

 

Like any two children fighting.  Take away the reason they fight and things eventually settle down.

 

Don't like it, propose a better solution to end it, because as we speak Palestinians are being literally forced from their homes for settlements, Israelis are being hated the world over and NOTHING is changing

[PhillipBlunt]

22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You think humans will last 300 million years?  How long have we been here anyway?  100,000 years or something?  How much longer?  

Humanity won't make it another 300 years, Alf.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Humanity won't make it another 300 years, Alf.

Sad but true PB.  We are a naturally self-destructive lot I think.  There are a lot of hot-spots around the glob, including moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, where old wounds will never die.  Now, sadly, we have weapons to destroy the planet.  Not that we aren't destroying the planet slowing anyway.  

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, Alflives said:

Sad but true PB.  We are a naturally self-destructive lot I think.  There are a lot of hot-spots around the glob, including moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, where old wounds will never die.  Now, sadly, we have weapons to destroy the planet.  Not that we aren't destroying the planet slowing anyway.  

Very true. The inherent violence and magnified greed of humans is the downfall. This is no more evident than in the United States now, where a moron dressed up as a leader is making decisions that will do nothing but destabilize any hope of world peace, destroy or pollute all natural elements that give life, and devalue the average person.

 

The decision that the Earth is here to serve them and their needs and wants is one that I would hope would only take their lives, but sadly, their money and influence will insulate them for some time. These poor excuses for people have decided that errant old scripture is the guiding light in their minds, and not actual fact, even when the leader of the most powerful religion on the planet has stated to the contrary.

 

The lowest common denominator is the most powerful now. That's a true sign of the beginning of the end.

 

[RUPERTKBD]

So the UN vote on the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem did not go well. 128-9 to condemn.

 

Or as Trump himself would put it, "very close"....

[Kragar]

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

So the UN vote on the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem did not go well. 128-9 to condemn.

 

Or as Trump himself would put it, "very close"....

Why was there no outcry in April when Russia did it?  I don't recall hearing the UN speak out then.

 

And, as often happens, what the UN says doesn't matter.  Vetoed.

[Ghostsof1915]

 

[Tortorella's Rant]

So, do we consider Nikki's vague threat to the world as Trump's red line? It was pretty ominous sounding. 128 countries laughed and voted against their decision anyway. Albeit that in and of itself was meaningless really. But now the States will be seen as a bunch of spineless twits who chirp a big game and bring a whole lot of nothing. Although at this point you could've easily made that case already since Dotard took over and turned the States into a laughing stock and political gong show.

[RUPERTKBD]

7 hours ago, Kragar said:

Why was there no outcry in April when Russia did it?  I don't recall hearing the UN speak out then.

 

And, as often happens, what the UN says doesn't matter.  Vetoed.

This is true, however, it once again underscores the US as a country that stands alone. (or very close to it)

 

It's a sharp departure from a country that likes to promote itself as the leader of world nations and one that other countries look to for guidance. You may or may not think this departure is a good thing, but the US is becoming more and more isolated as the Trump administration goes on. (Ooops! I almost said "progresses". Of course that wouldn't have been the appropriate word. )

[Ghostsof1915]

 

[RUPERTKBD]

BTW, @Kragar: I'm wondering what you think of Haley's threats about funding after the vote. I'm a bit skeptical, because I believe that US funding in large part goes to countries where America has financial and military interests. (Like a lot of Middle East countries)

 

I read one article from a right wing publication that said the threats worked, as evidenced by the number of abstentions. (Including Canada's) The timing of that seemed off, but I suppose it was pretty common knowledge that the US was going to be displeased with anyone who disagreed with them. (There was also mention of Trump himself making similar threats, prior to the vote, but if so, I didn't see it)

 

Thoughts? Helpful? Unhelpful? A bit of an empty threat? (i.e. posturing?)

 

The question is directed to @Kragar, because he and I were already discussing this topic, but I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts.

[ice orca]

On 12/19/2017 at 4:35 PM, PhillipBlunt said:

Very true. The inherent violence and magnified greed of humans is the downfall. This is no more evident than in the United States now, where a moron dressed up as a leader is making decisions that will do nothing but destabilize any hope of world peace, destroy or pollute all natural elements that give life, and devalue the average person.

 

The decision that the Earth is here to serve them and their needs and wants is one that I would hope would only take their lives, but sadly, their money and influence will insulate them for some time. These poor excuses for people have decided that errant old scripture is the guiding light in their minds, and not actual fact, even when the leader of the most powerful religion on the planet has stated to the contrary.

 

The lowest common denominator is the most powerful now. That's a true sign of the beginning of the end.

 

The good thing Phill is that his reality show is in the tank and won't be renewed next season.

[Toews]

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

This is true, however, it once again underscores the US as a country that stands alone. (or very close to it)

 

It's a sharp departure from a country that likes to promote itself as the leader of world nations and one that other countries look to for guidance. You may or may not think this departure is a good thing, but the US is becoming more and more isolated as the Trump administration goes on. (Ooops! I almost said "progresses". Of course that wouldn't have been the appropriate word. )

Everything about the US currently is an embarrassment. 

[Kragar]

3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

This is true, however, it once again underscores the US as a country that stands alone. (or very close to it)

 

It's a sharp departure from a country that likes to promote itself as the leader of world nations and one that other countries look to for guidance. You may or may not think this departure is a good thing, but the US is becoming more and more isolated as the Trump administration goes on. (Ooops! I almost said "progresses". Of course that wouldn't have been the appropriate word. )

I see what you're saying here.  But there is a long history of US vetoes, especially when it comes to the Middle East, where they stood up against identical massive majorities in the UN.  This "standing alone" is not terribly new.  US protects Israel, Russia/USSR protects Syria, rest of the world's opinion be damned.

 

Even Jimmy Carter has come out saying how harshly Trump is treated by the media, and IMO this situation is just an extension of that.  Why would the world be silent when Russia did the same thing 8 months ago, but all of a sudden it matters when the other superpower pledges to do the same thing? 

 

There's a lot of things I don't like about Trump, as you know, and there is plenty of embarrassing things that have come from him.  IMO, this embassy situation is not that big a deal, and the level of media and global backlash would not be there if another President made the decision.  The rest of the ME can bitch and moan about this, but if any peace agreement down the road leads to Israel not having its capital in Jerusalem, it's quite easy to move the embassy back to Tel Aviv or whatever place Israel chooses.  I don't believe the rhetoric that this move is some major blockade to peace in the ME, aside from the fact that it helps to protect Israel.  The hatred for Israel is so strong through much of the ME, there is IMO no hope for peace, even if there is an agreement on a 2-state solution.  Arafat is gone, but the hatred still lingers.

 

Re: your follow-up post.  I haven't read much about Haley's comments, so I don't know enough to form an opinion yet.  I'll need to get back to you.  Might take some time with holiday preparation going on.