Evaluations of Veterans for purpose of Trades (Discussion)

[JM_]

9 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hey Jim

 

Not slagging your comments, but...

 

With Gaudette, McEwen, Gadjovich, Lockwood just around the corner, do you think we have to replace Dorsett? Does it fit our rebuild?

 

I would like to keep a hold of Hutton a little longer......he has potential, and if we are going to move him, maybe we do as part of a bigger deal?

 

Last part is just a question

 

Wasn't Dorsett also picked up for a late 3rd...I think 85th........are you saying you think Hutton is only worth that? 

 

I know what you are saying, but just my random thinking going on here! Sorry

I do think we need a Dorsett style player, I don't think a team can survive down the stretch or the playoffs without a guy like that. 

 

Honestly I don't think Hutton is worth more than a 3rd just on his own at the moment, there's a lot of question marks about his consistency and his offence has fallen off a cliff. He might be worth more on a player for player deal on a team that has some excess bottom 6 F depth.

 

 

 

 

[Nucker 67]

If Benning can convince Edler to waive and then trade him to a team willing to give up their late 1st, then they should just give Benning the GM of the Year award. Can't see it happening, unfortunately. But what I can see is Edler playing out the rest of his contract and then being re-signed for 3 more years. They'll use some excuse like: "We feel Alex will provide great leadership and mentor some of the younger Ds coming up, notably Juolevi".

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I do think we need a Dorsett style player, I don't think a team can survive down the stretch or the playoffs without a guy like that. 

 

Honestly I don't think Hutton is worth more than a 3rd just on his own at the moment, there's a lot of question marks about his consistency and his offence has fallen off a cliff. He might be worth more on a player for player deal on a team that has some excess bottom 6 F depth.

 

 

 

 

This not directed at you Jim

Just some more random thoughts

But here is my problem with the evaluation of our Defensemen in general

 

With a healthy Bo and Baer, we are a middle of the pack team.....there abouts

Many claim we do not have a #1 Dman and that Tanev is just a #3

In addition Edler is a bum, Gudbranson is only a #6, and Biega is a #7/8

 

So if Tanev is a #3..... then MDZ, Stecher, and Pouliot must be #4's or #5's 

 

My point being that some of CDC don't seem to understand a team is a collective and are only as strong as its weakest link

So, if this is true in any part, don't you think that many of the problems our Dmen are having are situational and cause by the collective

Aka.......better quality shots, no back check, weak early goals, etc

 

My thoughts on Hutton are that he has been given heavy minutes during times of injury and wasn't bad considering his true value (#4/5)

And that Green would not have put him in that position, if he didn't have some ability to perform those responsibilities....albeit in a temp. position

 

So my fears are that Hutton still being young and having the capabilities of performing those jobs, and being a honest 4/5, would be traded for a 3rd or 4th round pick, 

when defensemen are at such a premium, and he is still young enough to improve.....I also question, if our offense doesn't exclude dmen from collecting points, as often as

other dmen do?

 

We cycle more than other teams......so it stands to reason our forwards touch the puck in the O-zone more often than do the dmen........(just a thought????)

Add the addition that in fact our dmen are less offensive as a whole....I am just not sure our Dmen are as bad and that it may be more a situational problem.

 

So in summary (sorry) maybe Hutton value should be higher, and probably if traded, be traded with someone else, to get a higher return? (It is not worth trading

him for less)

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

20 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

If Benning can convince Edler to waive and then trade him to a team willing to give up their late 1st, then they should just give Benning the GM of the Year award. Can't see it happening, unfortunately. But what I can see is Edler playing out the rest of his contract and then being re-signed for 3 more years. They'll use some excuse like: "We feel Alex will provide great leadership and mentor some of the younger Ds coming up, notably Juolevi".

That is a possibility, true!.......I sure hope not!........but that could happen.........I just threw up!

[JM_]

36 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

This not directed at you Jim

Just some more random thoughts

But here is my problem with the evaluation of our Defensemen in general

 

With a healthy Bo and Baer, we are a middle of the pack team.....there abouts

Many claim we do not have a #1 Dman and that Tanev is just a #3

In addition Edler is a bum, Gudbranson is only a #6, and Biega is a #7/8

 

So if Tanev is a #3..... then MDZ, Stecher, and Pouliot must be #4's or #5's 

 

My point being that some of CDC don't seem to understand a team is a collective and are only as strong as its weakest link

So, if this is true in any part, don't you think that many of the problems our Dmen are having are situational and cause by the collective

Aka.......better quality shots, no back check, weak early goals, etc

 

My thoughts on Hutton are that he has been given heavy minutes during times of injury and wasn't bad considering his true value (#4/5)

And that Green would not have put him in that position, if he didn't have some ability to perform those responsibilities....albeit in a temp. position

 

So my fears are that Hutton still being young and having the capabilities of performing those jobs, and being a honest 4/5, would be traded for a 3rd or 4th round pick, 

when defensemen are at such a premium, and he is still young enough to improve.....I also question, if our offense doesn't exclude dmen from collecting points, as often as

other dmen do?

 

We cycle more than other teams......so it stands to reason our forwards touch the puck in the O-zone more often than do the dmen........(just a thought????)

Add the addition that in fact our dmen are less offensive as a whole....I am just not sure our Dmen are as bad and that it may be more a situational problem.

 

So in summary (sorry) maybe Hutton value should be higher, and probably if traded, be traded with someone else, to get a higher return? (It is not worth trading

him for less)

 

 

its OK, directed is fine with me 

 

its true that Hutton has been given more duties than he's probably ready for, but he's also struggled with that so it might lessen his value. If say he had really stepped up and shone he would be worth a lot more. Fair or not, thats how I think the market would see him.

 

On the Dorsett-type player, just going back to how he pestered McDavid e.g., who else do we have that can do that? could we really beat Edmonton without a pest like that? 

 

 

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

15 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't think we're going to see Tanev traded, so no pick bonanza this year as far as I can see. I'm also hoping we re-up Guddy. 

 

Maybe move Hutton as part of a deal for a Dorsett replacement? Vanek for a 3rd? If all we got was both of these things accomplished I'd be happy. 

Jimmy, why are you always the voice of reason? Is it those gosh darn sideburns? 

[VegasCanuck]

17 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

With the injury bug hitting us hard, and how difficult it is to gain additional points compared to our competitors won/losses........December may be a deciding month as to what Benning does at the trade deadline.

 

With saying that, and looking at our veterans. What are they worth and what is the possibility of each one Being traded?

For the purposes of this post, a veteran is a NHL player over 26 years of age.

 

Henrik Sedin 37..........................Hank and Danny have shown to still have life as 3rd line players, and may re-sign for around 3.5 Million for 1 year

Daniel Sedin 38..........................Hank and Danny have shown to still have life as 3rd line players, and may re-sign for around 3.5 Million for 1 year

Chris Tanev 27...........................The Canucks should be careful with Chris, he takes a lot of knocks out there.............he stays 

Alex Edler 31.............................Log Jam at LD, and he is showing that he is aging........time to go.......value: Late 1st or 2nd and a A- prospect

Brandon Sutter 28......................You really notice when he is gone, Benning loves him............he stays

Loui Eriksson 32.........................He's showing a lot more this year, and his contract is prohibitive..........he stays

Thomas Vanek 33.....................Good knack for scoring, and would help any team out on their way to the playoffs.........value: late 2nd 

Michael Del Zotto 27..................Michael has made Edler expendable..........he stays (this year)

Jacob Markstrom 27...................Who is better Jacob or Anders, neither one has shown to be better than the other.........he stays

Anders Nilsson 27......................He has shown he is a decent goaltender, and would be a good back up to a contender........he stays 50/50

Sam Gagner 28..........................He stays because of a bad contract or is discounted at 50%.............no value.........he stays

Alex Biega 29.............................The pitbull......stays or does he go?......you have to admit, what a great guy to have in the wings for the PO's.......what team wouldn't want him???????

 

Erik Gudbranson 25...................Although not a top 3/4 defenceman.........you sure notice when he is gone.........................does Benning resign him ????????

Sven Baertschi 25......................there sure is a lot of LW's in the system........does Vancouver intend to sign E. Kane this summer ????????

 

I just honestly can't see where the loss of 2 or 3 veterans, could not be replaced through free agency if, we don't do not just replace them through promotion..............................

 

My opinion is that Gaudette,and Demko have a very good chance of making the big club, with an outside chance of Pettersson and Juolevi pushing for a spot....................

 

I would not argue that Pettersson and Juolevi could use a little seasoning on the Comets, but their skill may dictate room is needed for them on the Canucks........

 

I just get this gut feeling that one of Markstrom or Nilsson gets traded, this TDL to up grade a contender..........you can not judge them now, due to team injuries

Earlier, they were both lights out......personally I like Nilsson more, but he has a lighter contract, so he is probably the one that goes......value: a 3rd

 

I really have more questions than answers...........

 

 

Generally agree with your assessment. I would think that "if" we drop out of playoff race, which I do think is fairly likely, Vanek and Edler are about the only 2 guys of value that are on the trade table.

 

Vanek, considering his play and scoring, if he keeps that up, I could see us potentially snagging a prospect similar to Dahlen. Someone that another organization deems to be expendable based on an attempt to run for the cup and needing immediate, secondary scoring. Not saying that we will get quite that level, but I think that would be the pitching price. Can't under estimate his return, based on how affordable his contract is. A team with cup aspirations, could easily fit him in and considering he doesn't have an NTC, we could get a bidding war going for him.

 

Edler, I do believe that he is still worth at least a first, especially based on the return teams have been getting for D lately. He's showing the miles, but he's still effective, especially if he's not relied upon to be a first pairing.

 

Baertschi, I'm on the bubble on whether he fits long term or if he's made irrelevant with Dahlen, Pettersson and Gaudette likely joining the team for next season.

 

I believe that Gudbranson will be resigned, we need his strength on the back end, especially until (hopefully) Tryamkin returns.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, zzbottom said:

Jimmy, why are you always the voice of reason? Is it those gosh darn sideburns? 

we're doomed if thats the case! could be the burns tho 

[komodo0921]

14 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

With the injury bug hitting us hard, and how difficult it is to gain additional points compared to our competitors won/losses........December may be a deciding month as to what Benning does at the trade deadline.

 

With saying that, and looking at our veterans. What are they worth and what is the possibility of each one Being traded?

For the purposes of this post, a veteran is a NHL player over 26 years of age.

 

Henrik Sedin 37..........................Hank and Danny have shown to still have life as 3rd line players, and may re-sign for around 3.5 Million for 1 year

Daniel Sedin 38..........................Hank and Danny have shown to still have life as 3rd line players, and may re-sign for around 3.5 Million for 1 year

Chris Tanev 27...........................The Canucks should be careful with Chris, he takes a lot of knocks out there.............he stays 

Alex Edler 31.............................Log Jam at LD, and he is showing that he is aging........time to go.......value: Late 1st or 2nd and a A- prospect

Brandon Sutter 28......................You really notice when he is gone, Benning loves him............he stays

Loui Eriksson 32.........................He's showing a lot more this year, and his contract is prohibitive..........he stays

Thomas Vanek 33.....................Good knack for scoring, and would help any team out on their way to the playoffs.........value: late 2nd 

Michael Del Zotto 27..................Michael has made Edler expendable..........he stays (this year)

Jacob Markstrom 27...................Who is better Jacob or Anders, neither one has shown to be better than the other.........he stays

Anders Nilsson 27......................He has shown he is a decent goaltender, and would be a good back up to a contender........he stays 50/50

Sam Gagner 28..........................He stays because of a bad contract or is discounted at 50%.............no value.........he stays

Alex Biega 29.............................The pitbull......stays or does he go?......you have to admit, what a great guy to have in the wings for the PO's.......what team wouldn't want him???????

 

Erik Gudbranson 25...................Although not a top 3/4 defenceman.........you sure notice when he is gone.........................does Benning resign him ????????

Sven Baertschi 25......................there sure is a lot of LW's in the system........does Vancouver intend to sign E. Kane this summer ????????

 

I just honestly can't see where the loss of 2 or 3 veterans, could not be replaced through free agency if, we don't do not just replace them through promotion..............................

 

My opinion is that Gaudette,and Demko have a very good chance of making the big club, with an outside chance of Pettersson and Juolevi pushing for a spot....................

 

I would not argue that Pettersson and Juolevi could use a little seasoning on the Comets, but their skill may dictate room is needed for them on the Canucks........

 

I just get this gut feeling that one of Markstrom or Nilsson gets traded, this TDL to up grade a contender..........you can not judge them now, due to team injuries

Earlier, they were both lights out......personally I like Nilsson more, but he has a lighter contract, so he is probably the one that goes......value: a 3rd

 

I really have more questions than answers...........

 

 

1. Agree with having the Sedins back. They've looked more like the Sedins of old since their ice time was reduced and they seem to be ok with being third line support. If this gets them another shot at the big prize, get it done. I'm good with signing them year by year until they're ready to retire. They are still very serviceable players in a smaller role. I'd like to see the captaincy passed on though. 

2. Tanev is a great defensive defenseman and is one of the top shot blockers in the league. His absence this year showed how important he is to our blue-line. I've stated my desire, in other threads, to take advantage of his value to a contending team but seeing our team without him was scary. He's a keeper and maybe a natural to take the "C" from Henrik. I still see Bo being Captain in the future but not yet.

3. Edler needs to go. However, his unwillingness to waive is the major hang-up. He is under a full ntc without options. I see him being approached to waive next tdl. If he wants to be a d!@k and not waive, then, unfortunately, he just plays out his contract and moves on. I wish I could express the same sentiments about Edler as I have about the Sedins but he's been an inconsistent blue-liner since he signed his big contract and I see no reason to think things will change. He had one decent season (2014-15) since signing that contract but has, otherwise, been disappointing.

4. Opinions don't matter here as we still have him for two more seasons before he can be approached to waive. 4.4 mil. for 6 points leaves a lot to be desired.

5. Eriksson's contract is a boat anchor, no doubt, however, I agree he's played much better. Hopefully, we continue to see this production out of him.

6. Vanek has been a warrior for us, so far. Unfortunately, his age is a concern, moving forward. It is highly likely he'll be looking at his next contract as his last and will be looking to cash in for as much as he can for as long as he can. I don't see that being a good scenario for us to keep him. Trade him to a contender for a pick or a prospect, much like they did with Hansen and Burrows. If JB turns him into that kind of return, he was well worth having.

7. Del Zotto's another player to discuss next tdl.

8. The crease is an area of strength for us. Markstrom has been solid but I'm perfectly comfortable with Nilsson as well. I'd like to explore the value of Markstrom on the market, only because he's seen more ice time and teams have a better read on him. It would seem a team like Ottawa could use a face change in goal. Markstrom for Anderson and a high-end prospect or their top pick in this years draft would be fair. We take on Anderson's, remaining, 9+ million for a better goaltender who is still under a great contract for the same period. We take on the heavier contract for a struggling goaltender in exchange for a higher return on futures. Nilsson takes over number one while Anderson becomes a full-time back-up until he's either dealt or plays out his contract, after which, Demko comes up as a back-up until he's ready to inherit the top position.  

9. Gagne was a bit of an anomalous pick up from the start. He's been, for the most part, invisible and has been on the bad side of a lot of plays. The problem is he may have very little value on the market. We have him for two more seasons beyond this one. He is not suited for a bottom six role. My hope is that, with what we may have coming in the near future, he is able to find a young player, with whom, he finds chemistry and finds some measure of success to raise his value in a future deal.

10. The Pitbull. He's been a stalwart defender for us. I am perfectly happy with him in his role. He's a keeper.

 

Re-sign Duddy and Baertschi as long as the price-tag is right and no ntc's.

 

[scheif16]

It seems like there is no playoff hockey in 2018 in vancouver, therefore we should trade ourt vets for draft picks. The 2018 draft should be stronger than the 2017. Adding

young players to our prospect pool would be the best way for a bright future. The canucks should try to trade players like Vanek, Edler, Gudbranson, Burmistrov,.. at the trade deadline.