Parallel Disasters..Mtl, Ottawa

[Nuxfanabroad]

Reading some Mtl HF comments, it appears the masses w/pitchforks have arrived..Bergevin's down to mere moments, one would conclude.

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer clown. To deflect attn from his Subban-debacle, he loudly claimed our Jimbo f***ed things up. This was a real dirtbag manoeuvre, & his true colours were shown.

 

Welcome Habs, to where we were about 5 yrs ago..with 2 monster contracts based upon past performance.

 

Ottawa's no picnic, but I'd far rather have their scenario between the two.

[DonaldBrashear]

Both of these teams are screwed big time. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Ottawa and Montreal fighting each other for 31st/30th overall (sort of like Arizona and Buffalo have done for a while).

 

Ottawa is going to lose their best player, Karlsson, next year, because there is no way he is re-signing with the Sens. You don't replace a guy like Karlsson who literally plays almost half the game and carries your entire team. Their D-core is awful. And Ottawa's two biggest cap hits are.... PUKE.... 7.250M for Bobby Ryan for 4 more years (WHAT?) and 7.000M for Dion Phaneuf for 3 more years. Meet the new Arizona Coyotes. I don't think Ottawa will make the playoffs for 15 more years.

 

Montreal is not as bad right now but their future looks bleak mostly because of the ridiculous contract of Carey Price and Shea Weber. I can't figure out why they would sign Carey Price to such a long term contract extension. Shea Weber has a cap hit of 7.8 million dollars for........ 8 more years... yes, 8. Now hopefully they figure he will retire after 5 years, but still, wow. But Carey Price is the real legit stinking pile of garbage. Signed for 8 years (starting next year) to a 10.5 million cap hit, which will take him through until he is 38 years old. Finally, the Jonathan Drouin signing is going to probably end up being like the Cody Hodgson signing of the Buffalo Sabres. I really don't like this kid at all, never did, didn't like what he pulled in Tampa Bay and I think he is a spoiled overrated brat. He is proving it this year. He has a cap hit of 5.5 million over 6 years, which is the same as Bo Horvat, and so far he has 5 goals this year. He is on pace to get 12 goals. Nice. Next year he will probably get 5 goals then get bought out. Worst mistake that Montreal ever did was trade PK Subban. He was the heart of Montreal and he was young and there was no reason to trade him for Weber. It was a dumb move.

[rekker]

26 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Reading some Mtl HF comments, it appears the masses w/pitchforks have arrived..Bergevin's down to mere moments, one would conclude.

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer clown. To deflect attn from his Subban-debacle, he loudly claimed our Jimbo f***ed things up. This was a real dirtbag manoeuvre, & his true colours were shown.

 

Welcome Habs, to where we were about 5 yrs ago..with 2 monster contracts based upon past performance.

 

Ottawa's no picnic, but I'd far rather have their scenario between the two.

The Price contract looked fugly the second it was announced. Did they not learn from the debacle here with Lou's contract?

[rekker]

12 minutes ago, DonaldBrashear said:

Both of these teams are screwed big time. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Ottawa and Montreal fighting each other for 31st/30th overall (sort of like Arizona and Buffalo have done for a while).

 

Ottawa is going to lose their best player, Karlsson, next year, because there is no way he is re-signing with the Sens. You don't replace a guy like Karlsson who literally plays almost half the game and carries your entire team. Their D-core is awful. And Ottawa's two biggest cap hits are.... PUKE.... 7.250M for Bobby Ryan for 4 more years (WHAT?) and 7.000M for Dion Phaneuf for 3 more years. Meet the new Arizona Coyotes. I don't think Ottawa will make the playoffs for 15 more years.

 

Montreal is not as bad right now but their future looks bleak mostly because of the ridiculous contract of Carey Price and Shea Weber. I can't figure out why they would sign Carey Price to such a long term contract extension. Shea Weber has a cap hit of 7.8 million dollars for........ 8 more years... yes, 8. Now hopefully they figure he will retire after 5 years, but still, wow. But Carey Price is the real legit stinking pile of garbage. Signed for 8 years (starting next year) to a 10.5 million cap hit, which will take him through until he is 38 years old. Finally, the Jonathan Drouin signing is going to probably end up being like the Cody Hodgson signing of the Buffalo Sabres. I really don't like this kid at all, never did, didn't like what he pulled in Tampa Bay and I think he is a spoiled overrated brat. He is proving it this year. He has a cap hit of 5.5 million over 6 years, which is the same as Bo Horvat, and so far he has 5 goals this year. He is on pace to get 12 goals. Nice. Next year he will probably get 5 goals then get bought out. Worst mistake that Montreal ever did was trade PK Subban. He was the heart of Montreal and he was young and there was no reason to trade him for Weber. It was a dumb move.

Ottawa with Ryan at 7.25 for four more years? I didn't know that. That may be the worst contract in the league.

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, rekker said:

The Price contract looked fugly the second it was announced. Did they not learn from the debacle here with Lou's contract?

He flinched when viewing the Price-tag

As if young prince had dressed in drag

Bob Barker did spew

Hey, whadd'ya do?

Hab-nots outfitted for body-bag

[DonaldBrashear]

2 hours ago, rekker said:

Ottawa with Ryan at 7.25 for four more years? I didn't know that. That may be the worst contract in the league.

I did a double take too. I mean... This is a guy who will probably never come close to 20 goals in a season again

[rekker]

13 minutes ago, DonaldBrashear said:

I did a double take too. I mean... This is a guy who will probably never come close to 20 goals in a season again

Between that contract and the trade for Duchenne I bet Dorian is worried for his job. Unless of course those were Melnyks decisions. Either way. Sure is nice to have the "sky is falling" spotlight off the Canucks now.

[Russ]

1 minute ago, rekker said:

Between that contract and the trade for Duchenne I bet Dorian is worried for his job. Unless of course those were Melnyks decisions. Either way. Sure is nice to have the "sky is falling" spotlight off the Canucks now.

Im sure Dorian is plenty aware the writing is on the wall if they lose Karlson. 

[rekker]

2 minutes ago, Russ said:

Im sure Dorian is plenty aware the writing is on the wall if they lose Karlson. 

I can't see Karlson hanging around that tire fire. Unless things improve my bet is he's good as gone. 

[Canuck Surfer]

On ‎1‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:46 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

Ottawa: For that "cheap"(as everyone calls him) owner, it's ironic that he's saddled with two albatrosses in Ryan & Phaneuf. Preceding GM's (Murray, I think?)error, but those two $ probs, appear dominoes that are setting off other poor decisions. They knew they have a cap-crunch on the way.

Pretty sure Both Ryan and Phaneuf were picked up with high cap hits. But large portions of the actual money due players already paid.  ie picking up ''high end'' contracts with small actual real dollars to pay.  Even more so with Phaneuf as they unloaded the cash due Cowen & someone else by memory.  That still smells of ownership micro managing what gets spent & how?

 

What is concerning is the ability to negotiate with players.  Nashville signed Turris very easily. According to published reports, it was almost as simple as splitting the difference on term? In any case, it was widely reported the dialogue was poor.  Concerning, yes?  Damning, I am not so sure. Turris was a handful for Arizona as well.   

 

Damning is the understanding of what NHL players have what value, how they fit, help the team? And more importantly, what price to improve on that...  I should have paraphrased negotiate in the last paragraph, not negotiate with players. BOY did they get played picking up Duchesne.  Turris is almost as good. Well he might be just as good? Just Duchesne is faster.  They negotiated poorly with Turris.  So sold low on him. And paid a BOMB for Duchesne.  Who is now on pace for 36 points. After scoring 41 last year. They have gotten destroyed on every negotiation, ownership meddling or not...

 

The only respite for Ottawa is drafting.  And, even though they paid big for Burrows, off the charts for Duchesne?  They retained their best prospects.  And they have lots; Collin White, Logan Brown, Chabot, Chlapik, maybe (Dahlen is prob better) Batherson? 

 

On ‎1‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 2:01 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

Perhaps I was negligent to omit Edmonchuk & Chia-pet?! :^/

I don't like the deal Edmonton threw Draisaitl?

 

I am not ready to throw Chiapet under the bridge yet. Their D was a horror show when he took over. They remain dangerous up front. Despite ''losing'' both the Eberle & Hall trades.  But I am questioning what is going on... At the end of the day, watching them though, they are poor defensively.

 

Now there is still three transactions, Draisaitl contract, Hall & Eberle, all big, and influential... That are going sideways? Don't get me wrong, Draisaitl is not a fail? But on track for 71 points, it was too early to award THAT contract! So I am close!  But, they remain young, fast, extremely skilled. Have some components. What I am concerned with? Is why 4 of their 6 D seem to have regressed? Only Nurse seems to have stepped forward this year. And they have not gotten prospects as good as Puljujarvi along? Their systems are not supporting the D up front either. And why is someone as slow as Lucic, playing the the worlds fastest player? Everyone is on a down year. It smells of tuning the coach out.

 

Drafting wise, some Chia, some older, they do have some decent prospects. Headlined by Puljujarvi. But also Yamamoto, Ethan Bear, Samurokov, Benson, in the wings.  Bigger picture on the roster; Larsson and Klefbom, Sekera & Nurse with Benning & Russell should be an adequate, if not exciting top 6? Some parts are not bad beyond all their lottery luck.  

 

There is easily room to right the ship.  If nearing the deadline, I'm still not in it as Edmonton?  I am firing the coach.  And looking for a D in summer.  Yamamoto will re-add the speed they lost in Eberle. 

 

No correction by this time next year???

 

Boom, Chiarelli may be out the door!

[fivethej]

 

 

[mephnick]

On 31/12/2017 at 5:21 PM, Solinar said:

I know you build from the goalie out

I don't think this has been true for nearly a decade. Back in the days of Roy and Brodeur and shutdown hockey, where you needed that shutout to win games, yeah sure.

 

These days? Load up with talent and hope a decent goalie gets hot at the right time and win games 4-3.You don't need a Price to win a Cup, you need Toews and Kane.

[Nuxfanabroad]

44 minutes ago, mephnick said:

I don't think this has been true for nearly a decade. Back in the days of Roy and Brodeur and shutdown hockey, where you needed that shutout to win games, yeah sure.

 

These days? Load up with talent and hope a decent goalie gets hot at the right time and win games 4-3.You don't need a Price to win a Cup, you need Toews and Kane.

Forgettaboutit..there was this team, another league (about a decade back)..incredible training staff..& they dominated everyone. That's the secret. Assemble the right trainers & all the pieces just fall into place.

[D-Money]

8 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Pretty sure Both Ryan and Phaneuf were picked up with high cap hits. But large portions of the actual money due players already paid.  ie picking up ''high end'' contracts with small actual real dollars to pay. 

Yes to Phaneuf. But Ryan's contract was negotiated with Ottawa after they traded for him. However, it is slightly backloaded - goes up to $7.5 next year, and stays there for the remaining 4 years.

[Down by the River]

Everyone needs to remember that no contract is immovable when Arizona is still in the league.

[mll]

49 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

Everyone needs to remember that no contract is immovable when Arizona is still in the league.

They took on contracts with players who were not taking up a roster spot and with close to no salary owed.  Pronger was under 600K per year, Dave Bolland is about 1M with the rest insured and he hasn't played since the trade, there was no salary owed to Datsyuk.  

 

It's unlikely that they bring in high contracts like Bobby Ryan who is still owed 4 x 7.5M in actual cash and is healthy to play.  

[Down by the River]

16 minutes ago, mll said:

They took on contracts with players who were not taking up a roster spot and with close to no salary owed.  Pronger was under 600K per year, Dave Bolland is about 1M with the rest insured and he hasn't played since the trade, there was no salary owed to Datsyuk.  

 

It's unlikely that they bring in high contracts like Bobby Ryan who is still owed 4 x 7.5M in actual cash and is healthy to play.  

 

The Coyotes ate Derek Stepan's 7mil salary and even threw in the 7th overall pick. 

[mll]

3 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

 

The Coyotes ate Derek Stepan's 7mil salary and even threw in the 7th overall pick. 

 

Chayka thought he'd be their C1.  In salary it's just under 6M per season - not a great trade and Raanta was maybe not their solution in goal.  They made some bets in the hope to improve their team and it hasn't gone in the right direction.  Stepan was good for about 55pts per season in NYR - now he's on pace for just under 50pts but it's on a worse team.  It's not in the same range as Ryan or Eriksson who were at about 25pts for more salary last season.    

 

[Down by the River]

34 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Chayka thought he'd be their C1.  In salary it's just under 6M per season - not a great trade and Raanta was maybe not their solution in goal.  They made some bets in the hope to improve their team and it hasn't gone in the right direction.  Stepan was good for about 55pts per season in NYR - now he's on pace for just under 50pts but it's on a worse team.  It's not in the same range as Ryan or Eriksson who were at about 25pts for more salary last season.    

 

He didn't actually think this. Nobody would actually think this because Stepan never has been a #1 C. 

 

He might be on a worse team, but that also means that he's going to get more opportunity than with the Rangers. This was not purely a hockey trade. It never is with Arizona. 

[mll]

4 hours ago, Down by the River said:

He didn't actually think this. Nobody would actually think this because Stepan never has been a #1 C. 

 

He might be on a worse team, but that also means that he's going to get more opportunity than with the Rangers. This was not purely a hockey trade. It never is with Arizona. 

He said it in his post-trade interview.