TheGuardian_ Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Who is defending anyone?! You keep saying that and it is really annoying to be brutally honest with you. The fact your team was at near top of the league for nearly a decade and the last management team cleaned the cupboards from prospects (plus many, many years of what picks you had, they were very late in each round) leads to an inevitable spell at/near the bottom of the pack while you retool. That is what is happening now. There are not "many years" - many yeas is the ten plus years in exile that Toronto, Chicago and Edmonton (for but three) went through. Canucks showed signs earlier this year that even now, this early in the process, that when healthy they are edging closer to being on the upswing. No one is blaming anyone and no one is defending anyone. People are stating facts and you seem to only have one track - blow it all up and fire Benning. Your level of patience is thin, I get that, you seemingly are an older guy and have put all kinds of pressure on this present management team to make up for your past disappointments but man, is that remotely fair? Edmonton with more first round picks than you have fingers on your hand are hand-in-hand with the Canucks in the standings WHILE HEALTHY - wow, great rebuild. Toronto has stepped backwards. Chicago looks poised for freefall. Arizona - well, that is too easy a target. Atlanta/Winnipeg is a good model. That has taken about six-seven full years from the start of some smart moves. They didn't have "most their pipeline" put in too early. They did it the right way. No one is in denial. You seem to have some form of need to have people agree with you that this current management team is purposely bad and needs to win a cup this year or else they need to play all rookies sort of thing. That is both not going to happen and no other team has EVER done that. Sometimes I will make a statement in a "general" term, defending. Patience, this is 4 years now, 4 years that the team has no more high end rookies playing than before. How many years is considered being "patient". As the other poster noted 2 to 4 years for development and there is no one on the development (Utica) team yet. At least no one that is going to bump even the Sedins out of a job or Eriksson. So 4 years so far and another 4 years? 8 years? This stuff is in the wrong thread. The players are playing their very best and playing for their jobs and future contracts, a lot are in their final year and a lot are trying to make the NHL out of the AHL. They also seem to be playing scared of losing their jobs, tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: And you are not wrong MOST prospects will need 2 to 4 years to develop and the scary part of that is that this team hasn't started developing anyone in the pipeline. LOL 'none' None like Petterson, Juolevi, Demko, Gaudette, Goldobin, Dahlen, Lind, Gadjovich, Lockwood etc... 3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: How many in the pipeline are in the AHL, the team's development farm team? None! The AHL isn't the only 'pipeline'. The majority of our better prospects are presently playing in Europe/college/junior (or recent prospects already on the team Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Pouliot, Stecher etc) And even then Goldobin (presently called up), Demko, Brisebois, Chatfield, McEneny, Holme, Cassels, MacEwan are all on Utica. 'None' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singing chef Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, aGENT said: Not to say the goalies have been great or that (especially that 1st goal last night) Nillson played well but I think the Elephant in the room is: a bunch of key injuries to what was already a mediocre team. Our top 2 (and top defensive and faceoff) C's out. Key match up player Dorsett forced to retire. Two of our best defensive D's have until recently been out. Two of our top offensive players (Horvat and Baer) are out also leading to less offensive and hence more defensive pressure. A top half of the league team would struggle with that injury list. They valiantly attempted to keep their heads above water but you can see the toll that guys playing above their heads, guys trying to come back from injury etc are having on the team. They rightfully look exhausted and our play in our own zone has understandably been spotty to put it kindly. Expecting the goaltenders to look anything resembling good in that scenario is not being realistic IMO. I agree to a point - however - imo the primary issue is that the Canucks do not have anything resembling a real NHL defense. There is no first pairing D man, perhaps 2 second pairing D men (Tanev & sometimes Edler) and 1 third pairing D man (Gudbranson). The balance, imo, are #7 or worse. I give them A for effort but the talent level to play consistently in this league is not apparent. The team has, finally, a good stable of young NHL talent of forwards, some currently playing NHL with some good prospects coming down the pipe. If the team can assemble some realistic NHL Defence to complement the promise of exciting forwards, that will complete this team. The goalie situation with Demko and DiPietro looks (on paper) to be stable. My thoughts about the situation. Happy New Year to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 What does losing 5-0 say? - Poor goaltending - No offense - Poor defense - Poor special teams They need help in every area, especially goaltending. This rebuild is a ways from being over. I know it's been said before, but it won't be complete until the Sedins and Edler are gone and our prized prospects (Pettersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Juolevi, Demko) are playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 A big loss game, disappointed. Nilsson and Marky are sunk, due to our bad D-men, even having magic to bring back Miller, there will be the same. How to improve it? Need more physical players, sit Edler and play Biege. Sedins are slow, lazy and easy to give-up pucks, resulting big pressure putting on D and G. Reduce their ice time and put a physical line mate like Virtanen with them. Don't play twins in PP1 and OT. Spit them if possible. Don't play Edler in PP and PK. Mr. Coach, please find out why we always allow early goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, singing chef said: I agree to a point - however - imo the primary issue is that the Canucks do not have anything resembling a real NHL defense. There is no first pairing D man, perhaps 2 second pairing D men (Tanev & sometimes Edler) and 1 third pairing D man (Gudbranson). The balance, imo, are #7 or worse. I give them A for effort but the talent level to play consistently in this league is not apparent. The team has, finally, a good stable of young NHL talent of forwards, some currently playing NHL with some good prospects coming down the pipe. If the team can assemble some realistic NHL Defence to complement the promise of exciting forwards, that will complete this team. The goalie situation with Demko and DiPietro looks (on paper) to be stable. My thoughts about the situation. Happy New Year to all. We certainly don't have a first pair. Though I think you're selling some guys a bit short. IMO we have the man power (when healthy) for basically three decent (not great) 2nd pairs. Or at the very least two decent 2nd pairs and a good 3rd. Tanev's a solid '2B' IMO. Edler's a 2, trending to a 3 with age and all the inconsistency that age related decline and a poor, injury riddled around him team entail. Both MDZ and Gudbranson are 3-4's (3's on good nights, 4's on bad ones). Hutton, Stecher and Pouliot are all presently 5's-ish though they're young and good enough that I think they they'll trend to solid 2nd pair guys as they continue to develop. Some night's they can look like 4's but but being young and on a poor, injury riddled team are the ones perhaps affected the most with consistency issues. We've got Juolevi in the pipeline, who IMO, projects to a solid 2-3 with an outside shot at #1. And then we've got Brisebois, Chatfield, Holme, McEneny etc who look like at least a couple should develop in to decent depth NHL'ers. We could certainly use some additional 'blue chip, top pair' projecting depth there, some of which we hopefully get this draft. Beyond that, we hopefully have Tryamkin to possibly return in a couple years who could likely fill a 2nd pair role and then eventually some trades as prospects start to come on line to hopefully fill in the remaining gaps (as well as possibly free agency in a few years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: What does losing 5-0 say? - Poor goaltending - No offense - Poor defense - Poor special teams They need help in every area, especially goaltending. This rebuild is a ways from being over. I know it's been said before, but it won't be complete until the Sedins and Edler are gone and our prized prospects (Pettersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Juolevi, Demko) are playing. i agree, but they can't rush those guys, just to make the fans happy. they have to play guys that won't be here when the young guys can make this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerMainLander18 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: What does losing 5-0 say? - Poor goaltending - No offense - Poor defense - Poor special teams They need help in every area, especially goaltending. This rebuild is a ways from being over. I know it's been said before, but it won't be complete until the Sedins and Edler are gone and our prized prospects (Pettersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Juolevi, Demko) are playing. In my personal prioritized ranking of the problems: 1. Poor Defense - No proper plays in front of Marky/ Nilssy. They push players into our own goalie and does bad job getting rid of screens. 2. Poor Special Teams - Our PP is atrocious. PK is somewhat mediocre. 3. No Offense - Other than 1 line, there is really no threat. No good shots from other lines. 4. Poor Goaltending - I have to admit our goalies are struggling but partly due to reason #1 up there. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Even when fully healthy the canucks would have had to punch above their weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, smithers joe said: i agree, but they can't rush those guys, just to make the fans happy. they have to play guys that won't be here when the young guys can make this team. Yes, I agree, those prospects need to develop properly. I think we're close, and it is very encouraging to see Pettersson, Dahlen, Juolevi, Gadjovich and Gaudette doing so well. I figure within 2 years they might al be on the team and that's when things will turn around for the team. I know the Canucks are not supposed to be a playoff team this year, but I feel kind of duped with that good start they had. Seeing Boeser and Horvat together, the sky is the limit. Then injuries...uggh, and now bad goaltending. Well, we Canucks fans can look forward to another exciting draft anyway. I'm good with that, always room for more great prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
867-five-309 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said: I have posted for years now that "young" does not mean "good". After seeing so many years of a 26th place team fans get desperate and see skill that is not there. Look at the players Benning did bring in, the NHL failures from other teams. Defending Benning becomes like saying all those other GM's, of winning teams, don't know what they are doing. Blaming the previous GM for taking the team to the cup final 7 years ago is grasping for excuses for this current groups failures. If some posters continue to believe that after 4 failing years Benning deserves more time, then why were the fans not willing to accept Gillis be given more than one season to do the same thing? The level is so low now most of the "pipeline" should make the team, they only have to better than the AHLer's on the team now. Two years ago the team finished 26th, this year likely the same or close and the pipeline contributed to ???? Too many are in denial. You have no clue about this team or hockey in general it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 30 minutes ago, aGENT said: We certainly don't have a first pair. Though I think you're selling some guys a bit short. IMO we have the man power (when healthy) for basically three decent (not great) 2nd pairs. Or at the very least two decent 2nd pairs and a good 3rd. Tanev's a solid '2B' IMO. Edler's a 2, trending to a 3 with age and all the inconsistency that age related decline and a poor, injury riddled around him team entail. Both MDZ and Gudbranson are 3-4's (3's on good nights, 4's on bad ones). Hutton, Stecher and Pouliot are all presently 5's-ish though they're young and good enough that I think they they'll trend to solid 2nd pair guys as they continue to develop. Some night's they can look like 4's but but being young and on a poor, injury riddled team are the ones perhaps affected the most with consistency issues. We've got Juolevi in the pipeline, who IMO, projects to a solid 2-3 with an outside shot at #1. And then we've got Brisebois, Chatfield, Holme, McEneny etc who look like at least a couple should develop in to decent depth NHL'ers. We could certainly use some additional 'blue chip, top pair' projecting depth there, some of which we hopefully get this draft. Beyond that, we hopefully have Tryamkin to possibly return in a couple years who could likely fill a 2nd pair role and then eventually some trades as prospects start to come on line to hopefully fill in the remaining gaps (as well as possibly free agency in a few years). we definitely need better defense. jim needs to draft good players and maybe find a gem that a team needs to move for cap reasons,e.g. pouliot. our d-men going forward are tanev, juolevi, pouliot, and maybe gudbranson and stecher. dahlin would be a great start. if tryamkin comes back, great. edler, del zotto, and hutton are weak defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said: Sometimes I will make a statement in a "general" term, defending. Patience, this is 4 years now, 4 years that the team has no more high end rookies playing than before. How many years is considered being "patient". As the other poster noted 2 to 4 years for development and there is no one on the development (Utica) team yet. At least no one that is going to bump even the Sedins out of a job or Eriksson. So 4 years so far and another 4 years? 8 years? This stuff is in the wrong thread. The players are playing their very best and playing for their jobs and future contracts, a lot are in their final year and a lot are trying to make the NHL out of the AHL. They also seem to be playing scared of losing their jobs, tense. If it is another 4 years, this is the Oilers. Another 8, the Leafs. Moreover, it would mean you would get your wish as Benning would be long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, smithers joe said: we definitely need better defense. jim needs to draft good players and maybe find a gem that a team needs to move for cap reasons,e.g. pouliot. our d-men going forward are tanev, juolevi, pouliot, and maybe gudbranson and stecher. dahlin would be a great start. if tryamkin comes back, great. edler, del zotto, and hutton are weak defensively. Yeah any of some of the D in the top 10 this year would be a big boost to the pool. Over this and the next year or two we're likely going to see some mix of guys like Edler, MDZ, maybe Hutton and Tanev on D moved as well as guys like Gagner, Vanek, probably one of Baer/Granlund as the better prospects come on line and replace them. Should be able to move/package some of those guys for pretty decent returns (which could be picks for D and/or D prospects). I'd love (if he'll waive) to retain 50% on Edler and perhaps package with Vanek etc to TBL for a guy like Cal Foote for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 26 minutes ago, 867-five-309 said: You have no clue about this team or hockey in general it seems. Has trouble with math too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 9 hours ago, alfstonker said: Not for the cerebrally challenged anyway. I mean how much better could a gif be than one showing a player who has given his all for this club, a player who despite not being a No1 D has filled the role admirably most nights, often playing 25+mins a night, getting a dressing down from a borderline "nut-case" who thought so little of this Club and City he didn't even want to live here, hardly ever attended practices and made a career out of calling out his own players which included playing a rookie goalie over a legendary goalie who had given his all for the Club in the Heritage Classic. He also had the distinction of coaching the Canucks to their first failure to reach the playoffs since 2008. Let's not forget how he tried to humiliate another one of our best players. I assume this never gets old either. Happy New Year, Stroker!!! May 2018 be the year you attempt to eschew mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 5 hours ago, GritGrinder said: Even with a perfect storm of Tryamkin returning and the Canucks winning the lotto it sounds like your 6 or 7 dmen next season would look like this. Pouliot/Stecher Tryamkin/Dahlin Juolevi/Chatfield Brisebois And you think this combined with the 5 or 6 rookie forwards under the age of 21 and a rookie goalie are going to be "slick"? That lineup reminds of something the Oilers were icing around 2011. soo freeing up 40mill in cap makes us not be able to sign any free agents? or did i say play lets play 9 rookies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon.Duck Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said: Gotta say that LVK are a way deeper team than we are and have way better goaltending. Hard to say say it’s just Gallant. Also wanted WD fired and JB to hire Gallant as soon as he was let go by Florida. Green was my second choice after Gallant. To me Green is doing well with very shaky and unproven goaltending, a lot of players who are being developed and a few too many long in the tooth to keep up with the play. If we had a healthy Horvat, Baer and Sutter it would make a big difference. For anybody comparing WD’s first year to Greens, on phrase should stand out. ‘It’s Miller time’. He is again proving what a difference good goaltending can make. The ducks &^@#ed up last year by not trading for him prior to the playoffs, they may have gotten past smashville I guess I'm just mad that an expansion team is doing so well compared to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GritGrinder Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, canuktravella said: soo freeing up 40mill in cap makes us not be able to sign any free agents? or did i say play lets play 9 rookies Your exact line was: "please win lotto this yr core of horvat, virtanen, boeser, guadette, tryamkin, petersson , juolevi, dahlen, demko, lind, gaz will be so slick next yr " That's 7 rookies listed plus you have Dahlin on the team somehow as well so that makes 8, throw in Chatfield or Brisebois and yes for all intents and purposes you did say "let's play 9 rookies". I can't see any big name UFA's wanting to join a team that has given up on all of their veterans and that finishes in the bottom 5 for 3-4 years and then decides to ice a team that consists of half rookies and another 4-5 players under 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
867-five-309 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 20 minutes ago, Oregon.Duck said: I guess I'm just mad that an expansion team is doing so well compared to us Lol, they're pretty much beating everyone in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.