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Would like to see Virtanen stand up for himself


*Buzzsaw*

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Watching Virtanen recently and I am seeing a pattern which I don't like.

 

He hits well, plays a fairly physical game, but when he's faced with intimidation, he always backs down.

 

Yeah he's still just a fat faced kid, but I think he is starting to get a reputation around the league as not being able to back up his physical play if threatened.

 

Watched several Washington player have nose to nose conversations which always ended with him avoiding any conflict.

 

Not saying he needs to go around picking fights, but what Hutton did in the Washington game is a good indicator of the behaviour pattern to emulate.

 

Hutton will not fight, but if he is provoked or someone tries to intimidate him, he will swing.  Same goes for Horvat... that first fight Horvat had with Nurse set the tone for the rest of the league.

 

Even if Jake gets a bloody nose, he would benefit from sending notice he's not afraid of a scrap... most fights are not as bad as expected once the fists get going.

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Thing with Virtanen is when he first started his career, he hit hard and wasn't afraid of an altercation. Then its like Willie D told him he wouldn't play if he took a penalty or got into any after whistle stuff. Its also due to the fact Virtanen does get intimidated because the other teams probably tells him you hit anyone ur F n done. Jake knows no one on our team fights other than Gudbranson who hasn't exactly showed his mean streak in Vancouver. So having no back up and getting harassed all night isn't in his best interest. Knowing what Jake can bring it sure would be nice to see him fight and punish guys more often 

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Do you have a clip or something of this?
Also Hutton didn't really have a choice, he decked Orpik and Smith-Pelly came at him.  Most guys would stand up for themselves and not turtle in that situation, lest they risk violating "the code" after a big hit and get a bad rep for being soft.

Surprised to hear this about Jake, and if it's true I hope we try to move him.  He's already not scoring very much, and if a tough fast guy like him isn't enough intimidating then he's not really doing his job (might have better value moving him than keeping him around to skate quickly, hit and then do nothing).

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I don't have clips of the situations, I erased the game... but there were a couple occasions when Virtanen made a hit and then got a talking to from a Washington player and avoided the confrontation.  The situations weren't in the foreground of a shot... they were something happening behind the play.

 

Obviously he doesn't want to respond to every chirpy player who is pissed about a hit, but there is a point when if you make a hit, you have to respond when you get seriously challenged.

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24 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Watching Virtanen recently and I am seeing a pattern which I don't like.

 

He hits well, plays a fairly physical game, but when he's faced with intimidation, he always backs down.

 

Yeah he's still just a fat faced kid, but I think he is starting to get a reputation around the league as not being able to back up his physical play if threatened.

 

Watched several Washington player have nose to nose conversations which always ended with him avoiding any conflict.

 

Not saying he needs to go around picking fights, but what Hutton did in the Washington game is a good indicator of the behaviour pattern to emulate.

 

Hutton will not fight, but if he is provoked or someone tries to intimidate him, he will swing.  Same goes for Horvat... that first fight Horvat had with Nurse set the tone for the rest of the league.

 

Even if Jake gets a bloody nose, he would benefit from sending notice he's not afraid of a scrap... most fights are not as bad as expected once the fists get going.

and here i thought this was something about virt v. green

a suggestion that he somehow stand up to green differently

 

oh well

too many soap operas watched in my past i guess

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I think youre making a big deal out of nothing.  It was a nice clean hit but nothing like the speed Hutton laid his guy out at.  I think the kid has pushback.  Maybe not like Dorsett but he'll mix it up.  If Horvat gets hit like that and he doesn't drop the gloves, what does that make him?

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22 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Would like to see him score more. Not going to happen on the fourth line. Pretty sad production from a 6th overall pick albeit that's not his fault either.

Yep. On pace for the same goal output as last season. 

 

He's definitely a smarter more rounded player this season, but I don't see how we can't be disappointed with his production. Especially with the success that other picks after him are already having.

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I'm OK with this as long as he keeps making hits and plays solid along the boards. He's not a fighter and walking away from chirping after he delivers a hit is OK. It's not like he turtles when someone is actually coming after him like Smith-Pelly did to Hutton. 

Also you can't blame him that no one did a thing after he was decked by Wilson. It's a team toughness thing and you are expecting way too much from a 20-year old kid getting his feet wet in the NHL.

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I don't care if he doesn't fight, what makes me wonder is why he doesn't play a more physical game. Once he became a regular team member I expected him to become that player that had defencemen looking over their shoulders whenever he was around. That isn't happening.

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3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

I don't have clips of the situations, I erased the game... but there were a couple occasions when Virtanen made a hit and then got a talking to from a Washington player and avoided the confrontation.  The situations weren't in the foreground of a shot... they were something happening behind the play.

 

Obviously he doesn't want to respond to every chirpy player who is pissed about a hit, but there is a point when if you make a hit, you have to respond when you get seriously challenged.

There's the flaw in your entire concept here. Nobody 'seriously challenged' Jake. Smith-Pelly didn't chirp Hutton, he went after him and got an instigator penalty for it. Somebody chirping Jake means nothing. If Jake drops his gloves and goes after a chirper he gets the instigator. As a coach I'd be pissed at that. Let the chirper chirp. Who cares?  Chirp away little bird, which I'll ignore. Or chirpy drops his gloves and takes the instigator penalty. Jake's playing it smart. Let the other guy drop the gloves or move on.

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2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

What do you think Wilson was chirping him about?  He was saying "hey lets fight, nobody was going to get an instigator in that situation, that's how fights work

Why would he? You want to fight over a clean hit you can take an instigator. I'll keep throwing those hits either way. Chirp away.

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3 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Bahh..let the kid sign his first decent contract, before he runs around risking concussions. Such a style of player can Really p!$$ off the opposition.

 

In his mid-20's he'll be a beaut..don't worry.

So now the reason for why he's holding back is that he's waiting for a decent contract? 

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Just now, The 5th Line said:

He doesn't have to but it would be nice to see, that's the point of the discussion.  And the problem is he doesn't continue throwing those hits either way, he backs down 

I think that's rubbish.

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4 hours ago, Outsiders said:

Then its like Willie D told him he wouldn't play if he took a penalty or got into any after whistle stuff.

I actually agreed with what you were saying except for this rubbish. ^

 

Has Travis Green told him the same thing then for 2 seasons???

What was his excuse at the WJC's as well then? Cause if I remember right he played his best hockey of that year when he returned to WD after the WJC. 

 

Jake played only 65 games under WD & has now played 105 under TG including a FULL season in the AHL last year (65 games) where he was FULLY under Travis Green & his orders. He's still under TG's orders this year with another 40 games added to that. 

His development in the past 2 years now is ALL under Travis Green who has been fully responsible for Jakes development if you've been following JV.

 

WD has nothing to do with how JV is playing TODAY, but I do agree that missing Dorsett & not having a veteran back you up as a young player learning the physical game of the NHL is not a good environment to a young (aggressive) kids confidence. (If I remember correctly again, I believe JB went out & got Dorsett & Prust for these exact reasons)... I've always agreed that having these types on your team makes everyone an inch or 2 taller & 10 lbs. heavier.

 

With that being said I believe JV is a slow maturer. He will put it all together one day. Slowly but surely he'll mature and gain that confidence that will make him a big piece to the puzzle as his team develops as a whole. 

 

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If you want to be a true power forward in the N.H.L you are going to have to answer the bell every once in awhile, all the good ones do. So far Jake seems like he doesn't want that pretty face marked up. One thing that frustrates me is he starts hitting after the game is out of reach in the 3rd period in a lot of games after being invisible for most of it.

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2 hours ago, Baggins said:

There's the flaw in your entire concept here. Nobody 'seriously challenged' Jake. Smith-Pelly didn't chirp Hutton, he went after him and got an instigator penalty for it. Somebody chirping Jake means nothing. If Jake drops his gloves and goes after a chirper he gets the instigator. As a coach I'd be pissed at that. Let the chirper chirp. Who cares?  Chirp away little bird, which I'll ignore. Or chirpy drops his gloves and takes the instigator penalty. Jake's playing it smart. Let the other guy drop the gloves or move on.

Agree with this and he has never been a fighter and he hurt his shoulder in a fight.

 

He is playing on such a short leash that he would likely be benched if he lost. I hate seeing a player having his confidence ruined.

 

IMO Jake is being treated a lot like Tryamkin, I don't see why he is benched a lot of times and he supposed to be being developed and at this point I can't figure out into what. It is like they are going to make a square peg fit into a round hole. Or are they sheltering him for a future trade?

 

If they want a knuckle dragger then sign one. Jake still has a lot of offensive potential yet to be sitting on the bench. Develop him into a scoring threat, he has the tools. Unless he hasn't cleaned up his "baggage" yet

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