Team's lack of confidence directly tied to loss of leadership from Horvat

[*Buzzsaw*]

Since Horvat went down the team has gradually started to lose its swagger and sense of confidence.

 

At the beginning of the season the team believed it could win any game... and the players believed they could come back from a deficit.

 

But that is now eroding fast.

 

From my perspective you can tie that loss to Horvat's absence.  He was, and is, the real leader of the team.  Over the last two years he has quietly taken charge of the Canucks and made it his team... showing by example and by effort game in and game out, providing the inspiration for the rest of the team.

 

Maybe he doesn't wear the 'C' or an 'A', but he shows leadership every time he is on the ice... both in his demeanor and in his play.

 

Horvat is the complete package... he can score, he can be physical, he can be a playmaker, he can control the faceoff dot and he can be a shutdown forward.  Sometimes it is easy to overlook how effective he is because he just gets down to business every shift.  But he also has the ability to single handedly pick up the team on his back and lift them... with his end to end rushes.  It is the threat of him taking the puck end to end is which makes the rest of his linemates more effective... the opposing team has to respect his rush and that means more room and time for the others on his line.  He forces the opposing team to key on on him and his line and that opens the game for the rest of the Canucks.

 

By drawing the focus of the other team's best players, he gives the Sedins and the rest of the team the kinds of line matchups which they can take advantage of.  It is no surprise Eriksson and the Sedins were thriving when Bo's line was intact... now Eriksson has disappeared... the Sedins are still scoring, but that is because they are getting #1 minutes, and they can no longer be a #1 line.

 

Boeser has continued to play well, but he is feeling the pressure and the focus of the other team's checkers... he would have a lot more room if Bo was wheeling on his line... not to mention he'd be getting a lot more pucks on his stick as a result of faceoff wins.

 

It's gonna be another process to rebuild the confidence of this team again after Bo returns... it probably won't happen right away.  For one, its an ankle injury, Bo's skating will be affected, and he will take time to get up to speed.

 

But I believe we will see the change in direction start to happen when Bo comes back.

 

If there is one thing which I draw from the season... it's that the MVP of the team is Horvat.  Yes, Boeser is getting better and he will be great... but all the dimensions which Horvat brings to the game makes him a special player for the Canucks.

 

 

 

[Chicken.]

I agree. Horvat is an essential building block of this team.

[IbanezRG]

Bo will you marry me.

[-AJ-]

I was watching 70-80% of the games when Horvat was playing, but as soon as he went down, I stopped watching a lot of games and just catching highlights and keeping up with the stats. I knew how crucial he was to this team's success and it's clear that the twins are mentors and role models, but no longer the head leaders of this team. It's clearly Horvat's.

 

Record without Horvat: 2-11-2

Record with Horvat: 14-10-4

 

That speaks for itself.

[EdgarM]

Just now, -AJ- said:

I was watching 70-80% of the games when Horvat was playing, but as soon as he went down, I stopped watching a lot of games and just catching highlights and keeping up with the stats. I knew how crucial he was to this team's success and it's clear that the twins are mentors and role models, but no longer the head leaders of this team. It's clearly Horvat's.

 

Record without Horvat: 2-11-2

Record with Horvat: 14-10-4

 

That speaks for itself.

This is why this should be the Sedins last year. Love these guys but the next step has to be taken for the team to advance to the next level. There are a number of teams who have committed their Cap space to their big name players and the money can only go around to so many players. I am sure a player will come available within the next two-three years which will be an impact player in which his team will no longer be able to afford him. I am sure teams like Chicago will develop some real good youngsters who they cannot afford because their big boys are taking the lions share of the cap space. I am sure 14 million will go a long way in signing an impact player and also paying up for Boeser which is coming very soon too. 

Another thing to note is that we survived all of the previous injuries this year and it wasn't until Bo went down that the team suddenly looked like a very different team. 

[goalie13]

I don't necessarily agree that they lost confidence.  I just think that they lost too many players to injury.  They have still been putting in a good effort (most nights).  It's just they can't come back from a deficit because they don't have the horses to make it happen.  All those injuries also make it easier for the opponent to match up against whomever Green sends out on the ice as he has less quality to pick from and can't send Boeser out for every shift.

 

In the end though, the team is still in the middle of a rebuild and, with or without Horvat, this team was not going to make the playoffs.  They need to stick to the plan and continue to develop and build the team around guys like Horvat and Boeser so that in a few years they will have the depth and the talent to be able to contend for real.

[apollo]

21 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I was watching 70-80% of the games when Horvat was playing, but as soon as he went down, I stopped watching a lot of games and just catching highlights and keeping up with the stats. I knew how crucial he was to this team's success and it's clear that the twins are mentors and role models, but no longer the head leaders of this team. It's clearly Horvat's.

 

Record without Horvat: 2-11-2

Record with Horvat: 14-10-4

 

That speaks for itself.

This exactly. 

10 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

This is why this should be the Sedins last year. Love these guys but the next step has to be taken for the team to advance to the next level. There are a number of teams who have committed their Cap space to their big name players and the money can only go around to so many players. I am sure a player will come available within the next two-three years which will be an impact player in which his team will no longer be able to afford him. I am sure teams like Chicago will develop some real good youngsters who they cannot afford because their big boys are taking the lions share of the cap space. I am sure 14 million will go a long way in signing an impact player and also paying up for Boeser which is coming very soon too. 

Another thing to note is that we survived all of the previous injuries this year and it wasn't until Bo went down that the team suddenly looked like a very different team. 

The next step has been taken though... Bo and Brock are the leaders... we just got terrible luck with injuries this year. 

 

There's no harm in the Sedin's re-signing next year at a home town discount... something like 1 year 1-2 million each and playing limited roles on the 3rd line. Heck you can even try the Sutter and twins experiment again too. That would be a beauty 3rd line for under 10 mill cap if they sign according to what I said.

[goalie13]

5 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

This is why this should be the Sedins last year. Love these guys but the next step has to be taken for the team to advance to the next level. There are a number of teams who have committed their Cap space to their big name players and the money can only go around to so many players. I am sure a player will come available within the next two-three years which will be an impact player in which his team will no longer be able to afford him. I am sure teams like Chicago will develop some real good youngsters who they cannot afford because their big boys are taking the lions share of the cap space. I am sure 14 million will go a long way in signing an impact player and also paying up for Boeser which is coming very soon too. 

Another thing to note is that we survived all of the previous injuries this year and it wasn't until Bo went down that the team suddenly looked like a very different team. 

It doesn't need to be their last year.  Boeser still has one more year left on his ELC.  They could sign the Sedins to one more year to continue to mentor the young guys before riding off into the sunset.

 

Even if there were no injuries, this team is still a few years from being contenders.  I say be patient and let the kids develop.  Don't rush them in too quick.  Worry about trades and free agents once the team is close enough that it makes a difference.

[JM_]

29 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I was watching 70-80% of the games when Horvat was playing, but as soon as he went down, I stopped watching a lot of games and just catching highlights and keeping up with the stats. I knew how crucial he was to this team's success and it's clear that the twins are mentors and role models, but no longer the head leaders of this team. It's clearly Horvat's.

 

Record without Horvat: 2-11-2

Record with Horvat: 14-10-4

 

That speaks for itself.

Can you imagine the anger if Bo's contract had been messed up and he ended up elsewhere? We'd be 4-23-6

[aliboy]

Without Bo and Sutter we just don't have the horses to compete, plain and simple. If Sutter hadn't also been out would it have been as bad, hard to say, and when he comes back will it make a difference, hopefully. He may have made a difference in some of the really close games, I would think.

[Slegr]

The loss of Horvat, Sutter and Dorsett all really decimated the team. The good news is that when Horvat and Sutter are back, we're not missing too many big pieces to be a competitive team. One more year of good draft picks, and we should be pretty solid down the road.

[CupIsComing]

LOL...I first interpreted the title as meaning that Bo's leadership (or lack of it) has hurt the team! I was like"...oh no he/she didn't"! 

Totally agree with your point that Bo is heart and soul of team...but even he isn't enough to lift morale this season. He will mentally struggle like all the others,  but he will lead by showing how he deals with it.

 

*edit* morale not moral

[Tre Mac]

48 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I was watching 70-80% of the games when Horvat was playing, but as soon as he went down, I stopped watching a lot of games and just catching highlights and keeping up with the stats. I knew how crucial he was to this team's success and it's clear that the twins are mentors and role models, but no longer the head leaders of this team. It's clearly Horvat's.

 

Record without Horvat: 2-11-2

Record with Horvat: 14-10-4

 

That speaks for itself.

Eh not that simple.  If Horvat was the only player injured then yes but don't underestimate the loss of both Sutter and Tanev during those games.  Maybe someone can post the Canuck record when Tanev is out these past two seasons?  I think Tanev is the unsung hero of this team.   

[Dr. Crossbar]

38 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I was watching 70-80% of the games when Horvat was playing, but as soon as he went down, I stopped watching a lot of games and just catching highlights and keeping up with the stats. I knew how crucial he was to this team's success and it's clear that the twins are mentors and role models, but no longer the head leaders of this team. It's clearly Horvat's.

 

Record without Horvat: 2-11-2

Record with Horvat: 14-10-4

 

That speaks for itself.

It does speak for itself on the surface but still not the entire picture. Horvat, and the decimation of our top line and 1D to injuries contribute big time. Those injuries put more pressure on Markstrom/Nilsson, too. 

 

But I agree, Horvat is the clear leader of the team similar to Linden's leadership. 

 

I also believe all of these injuries has forced Boeser to raise his game even higher and shoulder more responsibility than he would have with a healthy team. As a result of his play, and carrying the team through injuries, Boeser emerges as a leader in his rookie season. Right now Boeser is a leader beyond his years as a result of injuries.

 

So, Horvat's injury actually has a silver lining that will pay off down the road through a much more mature Boeser.

 

 

[TheGuardian_]

Bo is really good no doubt about it, but he is not the saviour. While his not being there hurts the team in oh so many ways, it is a team game. An injury to any one player should not have this kind of reaction, or even two players. But that is more a skill and depth issue.

By having the media push this idea, that his injury caused this decent will put immense pressure on him when he returns and have fans worked up if there is no improvement.

If he is lucky his return date will coincide with the week off and the players rejuvenate themselves and come out fresh again.

 

The media are all certain that the Sedins are coming back next year, I hope they do as the team is not ready for the void their retirement will cause BUT, that said, to me their next year is like the prospects that aren't signed or in the AHL or on the team, it is just an idea/guess/hope until word is out that it is a done deal. Would they come back for that big a discount though, they will still be 40 to 60 point players and that point level is paying 5 mil a season. 

 

My opinion/guess is that they will re-sign for 2 years taking them to 2020. Eriksson's contract can be bought out then or maybe even traded as it will be 90% paid off or better if there is another lockout.

[EdgarM]

33 minutes ago, apollo said:

This exactly. 

The next step has been taken though... Bo and Brock are the leaders... we just got terrible luck with injuries this year. 

 

There's no harm in the Sedin's re-signing next year at a home town discount... something like 1 year 1-2 million each and playing limited roles on the 3rd line. Heck you can even try the Sutter and twins experiment again too. That would be a beauty 3rd line for under 10 mill cap if they sign according to what I said.

I am not too concerned about resigning them to a one year deal at a very discounted rate although that would mean Hank would still be Captain and the actual "changing of the guard" would not happen. This is more important IMO then actually still having them on the team with limited ice time.

[apollo]

Just now, EdgarM said:

I am not too concerned about resigning them to a one year deal at a very discounted rate although that would mean Hank would still be Captain and the actual "changing of the guard" would not happen. This is more important IMO then actually still having them on the team with limited ice time.

Changing of the guard has happened though... The respect between Bo and Hank is unbreakable. 

 

Everyone is aware of their roles. Bo knows he's future captain... he may end up wearing the C even longer than Henrik. There's absolutely 0 reason the Sedin's shouldn't re-sign short term deals. 

 

 

[coastal.view]

i agree with guardian

if bo really has the impact people are describing

then he is approaching generational player status

and that is exaggerating his talent and impact

 

getting him back will likely not restore the team to an overall winning status

there are many other factors as well

primarily that most good teams play softer at the start of the schedule

and games become much tougher as the year goes on

look at bo's production last season in the 2nd half

it fell off

this is a annual trend that happens to the sedins as well

 

bo is a very good player

and a foundational piece

this team would miss brock if he were injured more then bo

[EdgarM]

31 minutes ago, goalie13 said:

It doesn't need to be their last year.  Boeser still has one more year left on his ELC.  They could sign the Sedins to one more year to continue to mentor the young guys before riding off into the sunset.

 

Even if there were no injuries, this team is still a few years from being contenders.  I say be patient and let the kids develop.  Don't rush them in too quick.  Worry about trades and free agents once the team is close enough that it makes a difference.

Yeah that makes sense. I guess one more year with them would not hurt in the grand scheme of things, but, at a drastic reduced rate like Apollo suggested in the 1-2 million range and no more then that.

[kloubek]

Bo is valuable in many ways, but I don't think it is the loss of his leadership that is largely responsible for our recent string of losses.  It's just been another crappy bad stroke of luck, really.  We've had more than average injuries to very key players - heck, 2/3 of our top line and our best defensive defenseman went down for extended periods of time.  We lost our physical edge with Dorsett retiring, and he was also helping out on the scoresheet as well. It's a matter of our team over-performing initially which helped the confidence, which has now turned in the opposite direction with the players being frustrated.  And honestly - who can blame them?  It's been a frustrating season for the last month or two.

 

I'm not too concerned. It was a toss-up if we were going to make the playoffs and now it looks virtually impossible, and that's ok.  Our last year to tank and it's all up from here.