Team's lack of confidence directly tied to loss of leadership from Horvat

[Westcoasting]

On 1/11/2018 at 1:57 PM, *Buzzsaw* said:

Since Horvat went down the team has gradually started to lose its swagger and sense of confidence.

 

At the beginning of the season the team believed it could win any game... and the players believed they could come back from a deficit.

 

But that is now eroding fast.

 

From my perspective you can tie that loss to Horvat's absence.  He was, and is, the real leader of the team.  Over the last two years he has quietly taken charge of the Canucks and made it his team... showing by example and by effort game in and game out, providing the inspiration for the rest of the team.

 

Maybe he doesn't wear the 'C' or an 'A', but he shows leadership every time he is on the ice... both in his demeanor and in his play.

 

Horvat is the complete package... he can score, he can be physical, he can be a playmaker, he can control the faceoff dot and he can be a shutdown forward.  Sometimes it is easy to overlook how effective he is because he just gets down to business every shift.  But he also has the ability to single handedly pick up the team on his back and lift them... with his end to end rushes.  It is the threat of him taking the puck end to end is which makes the rest of his linemates more effective... the opposing team has to respect his rush and that means more room and time for the others on his line.  He forces the opposing team to key on on him and his line and that opens the game for the rest of the Canucks.

 

By drawing the focus of the other team's best players, he gives the Sedins and the rest of the team the kinds of line matchups which they can take advantage of.  It is no surprise Eriksson and the Sedins were thriving when Bo's line was intact... now Eriksson has disappeared... the Sedins are still scoring, but that is because they are getting #1 minutes, and they can no longer be a #1 line.

 

Boeser has continued to play well, but he is feeling the pressure and the focus of the other team's checkers... he would have a lot more room if Bo was wheeling on his line... not to mention he'd be getting a lot more pucks on his stick as a result of faceoff wins.

 

It's gonna be another process to rebuild the confidence of this team again after Bo returns... it probably won't happen right away.  For one, its an ankle injury, Bo's skating will be affected, and he will take time to get up to speed.

 

But I believe we will see the change in direction start to happen when Bo comes back.

 

If there is one thing which I draw from the season... it's that the MVP of the team is Horvat.  Yes, Boeser is getting better and he will be great... but all the dimensions which Horvat brings to the game makes him a special player for the Canucks.

 

 

 

Care to comment again after tonights game? Or you're usual start a topic and never respond...

[867-five-309]

lame thread

[*Buzzsaw*]

4 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

Care to comment again after tonights game? Or you're usual start a topic and never respond...

Canucks played well but also had a lot of puck luck against Columbus...  no team loses every game they play.

 

Team is still not firing on all cylinders and won't be till Horvat is back.

[linden17]

On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎11 at 1:57 PM, *Buzzsaw* said:

Since Horvat went down the team has gradually started to lose its swagger and sense of confidence.

 

At the beginning of the season the team believed it could win any game... and the players believed they could come back from a deficit.

 

But that is now eroding fast.

 

From my perspective you can tie that loss to Horvat's absence.  He was, and is, the real leader of the team.  Over the last two years he has quietly taken charge of the Canucks and made it his team... showing by example and by effort game in and game out, providing the inspiration for the rest of the team.

 

Maybe he doesn't wear the 'C' or an 'A', but he shows leadership every time he is on the ice... both in his demeanor and in his play.

 

Horvat is the complete package... he can score, he can be physical, he can be a playmaker, he can control the faceoff dot and he can be a shutdown forward.  Sometimes it is easy to overlook how effective he is because he just gets down to business every shift.  But he also has the ability to single handedly pick up the team on his back and lift them... with his end to end rushes.  It is the threat of him taking the puck end to end is which makes the rest of his linemates more effective... the opposing team has to respect his rush and that means more room and time for the others on his line.  He forces the opposing team to key on on him and his line and that opens the game for the rest of the Canucks.

 

By drawing the focus of the other team's best players, he gives the Sedins and the rest of the team the kinds of line matchups which they can take advantage of.  It is no surprise Eriksson and the Sedins were thriving when Bo's line was intact... now Eriksson has disappeared... the Sedins are still scoring, but that is because they are getting #1 minutes, and they can no longer be a #1 line.

 

Boeser has continued to play well, but he is feeling the pressure and the focus of the other team's checkers... he would have a lot more room if Bo was wheeling on his line... not to mention he'd be getting a lot more pucks on his stick as a result of faceoff wins.

 

It's gonna be another process to rebuild the confidence of this team again after Bo returns... it probably won't happen right away.  For one, its an ankle injury, Bo's skating will be affected, and he will take time to get up to speed.

 

But I believe we will see the change in direction start to happen when Bo comes back.

 

If there is one thing which I draw from the season... it's that the MVP of the team is Horvat.  Yes, Boeser is getting better and he will be great... but all the dimensions which Horvat brings to the game makes him a special player for the Canucks.

 

 

 

really well thought out. I agree.

[Westcoasting]

9 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks played well but also had a lot of puck luck against Columbus...  no team loses every game they play.

 

Team is still not firing on all cylinders and won't be till Horvat is back.

So it's Bo's leadership when he is in the lineup and puck luck when he is injured... got it! 

[70seven]

Bo is clearly the scrotum of this group.

 

Cut that off any man and he'll suffer confidence loss fo sho.

[70seven]

1 hour ago, Westcoasting said:

So it's Bo's leadership when he is in the lineup and puck luck when he is injured... got it! 

Admit it.

 

Canucks are a dumpster fire outside Bo and Boes.  Everyone else outside the kids that have yet to grace the lineup should be available for future assets.

[rekker]

6 minutes ago, 70seven said:

Bo is clearly the scrotum of this group.

 

Cut that off any man and he'll suffer confidence loss fo sho.

LOL

[rekker]

11 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks played well but also had a lot of puck luck against Columbus...  no team loses every game they play.

 

Team is still not firing on all cylinders and won't be till Horvat is back.

So true. The hockey gods were giving the Nucks that game no matter what. Gaunces goal, posts, blocked shots on empty nets. Was comical.

[Attila Umbrus]

On 1/11/2018 at 3:37 PM, *Buzzsaw* said:

For those who say Horvat is not that important...  they are right in saying Horvat is not a generational player.

 

But he is the glue that holds this team together and makes it work... similar to Bob Gainey with Montreal or Jonathan Toews with Chicago.

 

He's the guy who shows it every shift and who can elevate his play at times in a way that inspires his team.

To add to your list, is Bergeron a generational player, no. But he is THE guy for the Bruins, and a yearly contender for the Selke. Bergeron and Toews are the 2 guys most teams would build a stanley cup contender around, you can include Kopitar in that mix as well. Not every team gets to have a chance at a generational player like Crosby or McDavid. Don't get me wrong i'd love one of those players on my team. But you have a better chance at drafting a Bergeron/Horvat type player if you make the right pick and everything plays out properly. I remember Gillis saying he will be a future leader for this team and an important piece to it's success. And he seen that way back then, he knew the kid was gonna shine. He gave up Schnieder for him for crying out loud. Speaks for itself really.

[rekker]

1 minute ago, Attila Umbrus said:

To add to your list, is Bergeron a generational player, no. But he is THE guy for the Bruins, and a yearly contender for the Selke. Bergeron and Toews are the 2 guys most teams would build a stanley cup contender around, you can include Kopitar in that mix as well. Not every team gets to have a chance at a generational player like Crosby or McDavid. Don't get me wrong i'd love one of those players on my team. But you have a better chance at drafting a Bergeron/Horvat type player if you make the right pick and everything plays out properly. I remember Gillis saying he will be a future leader for this team and an important piece to it's success. And he seen that way back then, he knew the kid was gonna shine. He gave up Schnieder for him for crying out loud. Speaks for itself really.

100 percent. Bo is a special player and person-leader. Teams that don't have a Bo wished dearly they did. I hope he's a Canuck his whole career.

[Attila Umbrus]

On 1/11/2018 at 3:28 PM, apollo said:

Honestly I'd be shocked if they ask for more. We could add bonuses if they chose 1 mill to possibly even make it 2.5 million each? 

 

It's not about the money... they have money.

It's not about the respect... they have more respect earned than anyone. 

It's only about them coming out and publicly saying they'll end their careers here and only want to win here. If they truly want that, a hometown discount on an extension is a no brainer. Gives the team the cap space to build around them and hopefully win the cup in 2018/2019 

 

Jim needs to let me have a talk with them and JT.

 

Re-sign Sedins both 1 year 1 mill + plenty of bonuses... 

Convince Tavares to sign 10 mill or something

 

Boom...

Something - Tavares - Something

Sven - Bo - Brock 

Sedin - Sutter - Sedin 

Cup. Real simple. 

 

Somethings could be jake, elias, w.e 

 

Some young guys developing too...

If it were only that easy eh! lol. Tavares would look soooo good in a Canucks uni  That being said I wouldn't be against bringing the twins back on a salary like you've mentioned. Plus if next year doesn't look good but the twins are still producing at a 40-50 point clip, a playoff team may actually consider taking them on cap wise to help with their secondary scoring, so a total of a 4 mil package compared to this year it would be 14 mil, no team can absorb that! Of course they would have to want to go to another team, but they may like the idea of one last crack at the cup next year if things aren't going well again.

[Drewismyname]

I wouldnt discount boeser wearing the C.

 

hes still standing and fighting while horvat is on the sidelines. 

 

I agree horvat is captain material and more personality suited for the job but if Boeser is the better man, sorry horvat.

 

if i was management id at least have a conversation with brock and make sure its all good before giving horvat the c. This is the best rookie we have had in ages and i have no problem catering to him

[rekker]

11 minutes ago, Drewismyname said:

I wouldnt discount boeser wearing the C.

 

hes still standing and fighting while horvat is on the sidelines. 

 

I agree horvat is captain material and more personality suited for the job but if Boeser is the better man, sorry horvat.

 

if i was management id at least have a conversation with brock and make sure its all good before giving horvat the c. This is the best rookie we have had in ages and i have no problem catering to him

I think Bo is better suited. But Boeser would look good with an A. Seems Bo's whole life was headed down the road to be an NHL team captain. There are very, very few forwards  in the leugue I would trade Bo one for one. 

 

 

[oldnews]

OP is oversimplified imo.

 

It's not simply Horvat - or 'confidence' - it's the overall impact of all their injury losses, combined with losing 40+ minutes at center.  The loss of Horvat was the breaking point - but the team's struggles are not reducible to one loss.

 

The loss of mulitples down the middle = leaves this team seriously overmatched at the critical center ice position night after night.

 

It's an uphill battle from puck drop until one or both of those guys return.

 

 

[Brad Marchand]

17 minutes ago, oldnews said:

OP is oversimplified imo.

 

It's not simply Horvat - or 'confidence' - it's the overall impact of all their injury losses, combined with losing 40+ minutes at center.  The loss of Horvat was the breaking point - but the team's struggles are not reducible to one loss.

 

The loss of mulitples down the middle = leaves this team seriously overmatched at the critical center ice position night after night.

 

It's an uphill battle from puck drop until one or both of those guys return.

Pretty much. Without Horvat and Sutter to absorb minutes playing against the oppostion's best players, that ice time is being distributed among lines centered by Henrik, Gagner and Dowd, who would all be better off with more limited usage to allow them to play to their strengths. As good as those three are, none of them are capable of consistently contributing at a high level offensively and defensively at this point in time.

 

Leadership abilities aside, what the team really misses right now is Horvat and Sutter's versatility.

[Drewismyname]

So what we need to do is draft centers for the next five years

[peaches5]

On 1/11/2018 at 2:15 PM, -AJ- said:

I was watching 70-80% of the games when Horvat was playing, but as soon as he went down, I stopped watching a lot of games and just catching highlights and keeping up with the stats. I knew how crucial he was to this team's success and it's clear that the twins are mentors and role models, but no longer the head leaders of this team. It's clearly Horvat's.

 

Record without Horvat: 2-11-2

Record with Horvat: 14-10-4

 

That speaks for itself.

Not really considering Sutter, Dorsett, Tanev, Elder, Baertstchi and more have all been out while Horvat has been out.

[-AJ-]

1 minute ago, peaches5 said:

Not really considering Sutter, Dorsett, Tanev, Elder, Baertstchi and more have all been out while Horvat has been out.

See: Earlier in this thread where I responded to this.

[peaches5]

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

See: Earlier in this thread where I responded to this.

Also I will add that Markstrom and Nilsson have both been playing terribly. Which you can't attribute to Horvat.