[PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Columbus Blue Jackets

[alfstonker]

7 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I dont get why that statement would be laughable, hysterical etc...

Virtanen has grown exponentially in the last year, and is a constant threat on the forecheck, takes pucks away like its nothing, is a physical presence, and can score, and oh right, hes our fastest player as well. He has a lot to work on still, but he at least shows up every game unlike a pair of twins and their swedish buddies that show up every 2nd game. So if the sedins are some of our best players, which they are by all accounts, why wouldnt virtanen be one of them? I mean the eye test screams that he’s consistently one of our best players. He’s got a lot of rawness still left in his game, but he’s already a SOLID 3rd liner at age 20/21

I'm sorry, that's not what I see.

 

He has improved, of that there is no doubt but how you can say he is "consistently one of our best players on the ice" is beyond me. If that was the case would he be playing on average less than 11min a night? That is the lowest of any player playing more than 20 games.  (Willie played him more than that in Jake's first season and got slaughtered for it )

Even Burmistrov and Goldobin have higher average TOI.

Please don't compare Jake with the Twins  - do you understand the meaning of Hockey IQ? 

 

Imo Jake is just one or maybe two seasons from finding there is no longer a place for him in the team unless he ups his physicality and work rate. Watch his line mates Dowd and Gaunce and see how much work they put in and then watch Jake.

[alfstonker]

7 hours ago, Pete M said:

Jake could be a dominate force if he uses his assets better (i.e., size, speed and decent shot). He spends too much time watching and not moving his feet and not using his size to intimidate, create an advantage, and create space for his mates and himself.

 

If he isn't the first guy in on the forecheck, then he just stands and watches as the third man high and his assets are not being used. TG needs to tell him his job is to get in on the forecheck and one of his line mates job is to be the third guy high. He seems lazy by being the third guy high a lot of the time. TG needs to tell his line mates to be the third guy high no matter what...Jake needs to be the freight train all the time.

 

He also seems to do fly bys when the puck is in front of him and the opposing player stops the puck...rather, he needs to have a freight train mentality and wipe the guy out rather than doing fly bys.

 

As for his shot, he needs to shoot with purpose all the time...meaning putting his weight into the shot and using his quick release then pick a corner. All good goal scores have the ability to get the puck high into the top of the net when they are in close and from far away...he needs to shoot with purpose every time because he has a good shot.

 

Jake needs to get his $h@t together and figure out what his strengths are and then use them all the time.

 

Also, management needs to get a true heavy weight that knows how to fight and skate and dress him as the extra forward in order to back up the guys who throw clean hits.

This one of the best summations of Jake's game I have read for a while. You need to have a chat with HorvatToBeartschi

 

I bet TG is SICK of telling him. He spent an unnatural amount of time telling him down in Utica. He seems to have the recall and retention of a budgie.

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

I accept our Canuck luck at the draft lotto does us in every year.  I just like the idea of dropping our normal 3 spots from 2nd, and picking 5th better than dropping 3 spots from 5th and picking 8th.  I do believe with Bo coming back, and a healthy Sutter, we will move up.  Plus, bringing in Gaudette, and (maybe?) Pettersson with 10 games left will give us a push up the standings too.  I actually see us finishing 7 to 12 from the bottom.  

It's hard to drop 3 spots if you're the 5th seed.  That would mean 3 teams who finished 6 or worse would make up the top 3 after the draw.  Last year, New Jersey was 5th and we see the odds for finishing 8th is 5% or 1 in 20.  It's unusual that all 3 top seeds move out of the top 3 as well.  

 

Team	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th	8th	9th	10th	11th	12th	13th	14th	15th
Colorado	18.0%	16.0%	14.1%	52.0%
Vancouver	12.1%	11.8%	11.3%	34.0%	30.7%
Vegas	10.3%	10.3%	10.1%	11.8%	39.3%	18.1%
Arizona	10.3%	10.3%	10.1%	2.1%	22.8%	34.6%	9.7%
New Jersey	8.5%	8.7%	8.8%		7.2%	33.0%	28.7%	5.2%
Buffalo	7.6%	7.8%	8.0%			14.3%	38.2%	21.4%	2.6%
Detroit	6.7%	7.0%	7.2%				23.4%	39.7%	14.8%	1.2%
Dallas	5.8%	6.1%	6.4%					33.7%	37.9%	9.5%	0.5%
Florida	5.4%	5.7%	6.0%						44.7%	32.7%	5.4%	0.2%
Los Angeles	4.5%	4.8%	5.1%							56.5%	26.4%	2.7%	0.1%
Carolina	3.2%	3.4%	3.7%								67.8%	20.7%	1.3%	<0.1%
Winnipeg	2.7%	2.9%	3.2%									76.4%	14.3%	0.5%	<0.1%
Philadelphia	2.2%	2.4%	2.7%										84.3%	8.3%	0.1%
Tampa Bay	1.8%	2.0%	2.2%											91.2%	2.9%
NY Islanders	0.9%	1.0%	1.1%												97.0%

 

 

[appleboy]

10 hours ago, alfstonker said:

No more "term" stuff, it screws us in the end. 

Offer him a fair salary, ( $3.5-4 is fair) and 3yrs if he walks too bad there are replacements in the pipeline. If he and his agent are smart they will see this is a team on the rise and heading for contention and jump at the offer.

Or maybe our management has decided that he is not a fit for the way the team is now being built. It is a shame this was not realized two years back. 

Not sure if I'm alone on this but I sense  some wishy washy goings on with their direction . 

I think Guddy will be moved for a pick.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

10 hours ago, alfstonker said:

I'm sorry, that's not what I see.

 

He has improved, of that there is no doubt but how you can say he is "consistently one of our best players on the ice" is beyond me. If that was the case would he be playing on average less than 11min a night? That is the lowest of any player playing more than 20 games.  (Willie played him more than that in Jake's first season and got slaughtered for it )

Even Burmistrov and Goldobin have higher average TOI.

Please don't compare Jake with the Twins  - do you understand the meaning of Hockey IQ? 

 

Imo Jake is just one or maybe two seasons from finding there is no longer a place for him in the team unless he ups his physicality and work rate. Watch his line mates Dowd and Gaunce and see how much work they put in and then watch Jake.

Im sorry but that last sentence got me. 

Honestly, Jake is a thousand miles ahead of gaunce just by impact on this team. Gaunce is a fine 4th liner, and he works his ass off, but so does Virtanen, and at least virtanen has a shot that can actually threaten to go in. Virtanen is the best skater on this team, fastest and most agile for his size, and when he brings his physicality, which he does CONSISTENTLY on the forecheck, he is one of our best players. Youre just salty because you dont see Virtanen laying out people every shift like Raffi Torres did. But guess what, his ceiling is much higher than that. He is consistent, every game I have watched he has been one of our best players, thats consistency. And to answer your TOI question, I see that more as TG trying to turn Virtanen into a top line player, slowly but surely. Nobody knows JV better than him, and I trist Green completely. I dont know if youve noticed, but these recent games JV has actually played more important shifts, end of the third with a lead or down a goal, so im not worried.

[alfstonker]

10 hours ago, appleboy said:

Or maybe our management has decided that he is not a fit for the way the team is now being built. It is a shame this was not realized two years back. 

Not sure if I'm alone on this but I sense  some wishy washy goings on with their direction . 

I think Guddy will be moved for a pick.

I hope you are wrong about direction.

I'm not one of these people on here who actually think Tryamkin will be back but imagine a 1st line of Juolevi and Tryamkin, a second of Tanev and Guddy and a 3rd line of Hutton and Stetcher. 

It would give a new definition of "clearing the crease" ( well it would if Tryamkin went Pronger)

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Im sorry but that last sentence got me. 

Honestly, Jake is a thousand miles ahead of gaunce just by impact on this team. Gaunce is a fine 4th liner, and he works his ass off, but so does Virtanen, and at least virtanen has a shot that can actually threaten to go in. Virtanen is the best skater on this team, fastest and most agile for his size, and when he brings his physicality, which he does CONSISTENTLY on the forecheck, he is one of our best players. Youre just salty because you dont see Virtanen laying out people every shift like Raffi Torres did. But guess what, his ceiling is much higher than that. He is consistent, every game I have watched he has been one of our best players, thats consistency. And to answer your TOI question, I see that more as TG trying to turn Virtanen into a top line player, slowly but surely. Nobody knows JV better than him, and I trist Green completely. I dont know if youve noticed, but these recent games JV has actually played more important shifts, end of the third with a lead or down a goal, so im not worried.

I hate saying this but with all due respect I really don't think you understand the game as it is played in the NHL.

 

You seemed to confuse potential and ceilings with actual performance. I'm not prepared to say more than that as I realise you are a huge fan of Jake. Let me condense it for you, Jake does NOTHING that is required of him CONSISTENTLY. If he did he would be averaging more than under 11mins.

 

How can you say low minutes is TG trying to turn him into a top line player without realising he is not one at present and therefore certainly NOT "consistently one of our best players on the ice" I would refer you to at least one interview where TG said the exact opposite of Jake becoming a "top line player" He said he could find a role in the NHL by using his strength, speed, hitting checking and be a value to the Club

 

And so that there is no confusion, I ACHE for Jake to play to even 75% of his potential CONSISTENTLY. When he does he will be getting 15/16+ minutes on the ice.

 

 

Jake Virtanen was a healthy scratch on Thursday.

Even in the 15 games Virtanen has played in this season, he's averaged just 9:44 minutes. There are concerns about how that might impact the 21-year-old's development, but that doesn't seem to be Canucks coach Travis Green's focus. "I’m not going to put Jake in for the better of Jake," Green said. "It’s a fine line between developing and doing what’s right for an individual and doing what’s right for the team." Virtanen has two goals and four points in 15 contests.

 

Being a healthy scratch on Saturday was a message sent to Jake Virtanen.

Travis Green, the Canucks new head coach, had him at Utica last season where Virtanen seemed to have started to turn around his career. "He’ll be the first to admit it, he wasn’t very good the other night," Green said. He needs to ... I just thought his intensity level, his assertiveness wasn’t where it had to be. I know Jake well. Am I worried about taking him out? Is it going to impact our speed? Meh, a little bit. I’m not just going to keep a guy in because he’s fast. Part of this is making sure Jake knows how he has to play. Getting him to play the way he needs to." Virtanen was drafted sixth overall in 2014 and while he seems like a bust at this time, he is still only 21.

 

 

 

 

[GritGrinder]

15 hours ago, TheOgRook said:

Woah you need to slow your role here bud, people who lash out on Internet forums for no reason are the ones that don't make strong points.. we lost two years in a row.. hence your point that we have to finish bottom five doesn't matter.  You can't see the future.  So it's pointless conjecture at the moment. Btw what's D@D?  Warcraft?  Never heard of her

I'm not sure if your reading comprehension is lacking or maybe you're confusing my post with another but please point out in any of my posts where I said anything remotely like "we have to finish bottom five". Oh and do I need to slow my "role" or my roll? I'm not an actor so I don't have a role.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

3 hours ago, alfstonker said:

I hate saying this but with all due respect I really don't think you understand the game as it is played in the NHL.

 

You seemed to confuse potential and ceilings with actual performance. I'm not prepared to say more than that as I realise you are a huge fan of Jake. Let me condense it for you, Jake does NOTHING that is required of him CONSISTENTLY. If he did he would be averaging more than under 11mins.

 

How can you say low minutes is TG trying to turn him into a top line player without realising he is not one at present and therefore certainly NOT "consistently one of our best players on the ice" I would refer you to at least one interview where TG said the exact opposite of Jake becoming a "top line player" He said he could find a role in the NHL by using his strength, speed, hitting checking and be a value to the Club

 

And so that there is no confusion, I ACHE for Jake to play to even 75% of his potential CONSISTENTLY. When he does he will be getting 15/16+ minutes on the ice.

 

 

Jake Virtanen was a healthy scratch on Thursday.

Even in the 15 games Virtanen has played in this season, he's averaged just 9:44 minutes. There are concerns about how that might impact the 21-year-old's development, but that doesn't seem to be Canucks coach Travis Green's focus. "I’m not going to put Jake in for the better of Jake," Green said. "It’s a fine line between developing and doing what’s right for an individual and doing what’s right for the team." Virtanen has two goals and four points in 15 contests.

 

Being a healthy scratch on Saturday was a message sent to Jake Virtanen.

Travis Green, the Canucks new head coach, had him at Utica last season where Virtanen seemed to have started to turn around his career. "He’ll be the first to admit it, he wasn’t very good the other night," Green said. He needs to ... I just thought his intensity level, his assertiveness wasn’t where it had to be. I know Jake well. Am I worried about taking him out? Is it going to impact our speed? Meh, a little bit. I’m not just going to keep a guy in because he’s fast. Part of this is making sure Jake knows how he has to play. Getting him to play the way he needs to." Virtanen was drafted sixth overall in 2014 and while he seems like a bust at this time, he is still only 21.

 

 

 

 

WIth all due respect, I do underatand the game at the NHL level. I see how Gaunce works his butt off defensively, and is usually not doing much, whereas Jake has this innate motor in him that causes turnovers, takeaways etc... 

And I think you missed my point, maybe because I didnt make it clear, but JV is today, the canucks prospect being the most closely followed and mentored. Thats what i see when i see his TOI. I mean great you used a quote from 2 months ago after 21 games, but now its 44 games in and his role has been increasing. I mean last night he only played 14:57 minutes, I guess that quote you used is still relevant right? Well its not. Jake has shown he can play in the nhl, forechecks hars, plays up tempo, works hard, and is a physical presence, even though he doesnt lay people out every shift. He has recently turned into what TG has been working on and has wanted frm JV, a consistent NHLer with room to grow. Thats the thing now, Jake will be in the nhl for the rest of his career, whether it be 1st-4th line is up to him and his work rate, but Gaunce is more 3rd-waivers. So hate to burst your bubble, but maybe you’re the one who doesn’t understand the NHL game. With all due respect. 

 

And just btw, Virtanen is averaging 12:40 the last 10 games. 

[rekker]

Your post reminds me of how it can go wrong with player development. IE. Nucks need JV to work out. Period. They will put the time in as needed. If a player struggles or has setbacks in the wrong organization he can just fade away. EG. What if Yakupov  is drafted By Chicago and P. Kane drafted by the Oiler's. Who knows where they would be today.

[oldnews]

"Granny and Gramps line"

[gregthehockeynut]

 A lot of teams give up on young players too soon imo. MLB minor league development of players over a much longer period before they reach the big show is the direction the NHL should trend. If every NHL team owned one team in each of the leagues from junior to the AHL level with a standardized training fitness and skills regimen separate from systems training it would benefit the league as a whole.

[appleboy]

8 hours ago, alfstonker said:

I hope you are wrong about direction.

I'm not one of these people on here who actually think Tryamkin will be back but imagine a 1st line of Juolevi and Tryamkin, a second of Tanev and Guddy and a 3rd line of Hutton and Stetcher. 

It would give a new definition of "clearing the crease" ( well it would if Tryamkin went Pronger)

The entire league is changing. They are going towards a fast pace , high tempo. Players need to be very mobile and that leaves Guddy looking lost at times.( I think Tryamkin has better mobility then Guddy.)

Players with size are fine but they need to be quick and move well laterally.  The league has been heading that way over the last two to three years. You have to keep up with the times .Guddy become a dinosaur just about the time we gave up two assets to acquire him.

[gameburn]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 4:21 PM, alfstonker said:

I'm sorry, that's not what I see.

 

He has improved, of that there is no doubt but how you can say he is "consistently one of our best players on the ice" is beyond me. If that was the case would he be playing on average less than 11min a night? That is the lowest of any player playing more than 20 games.  (Willie played him more than that in Jake's first season and got slaughtered for it )

Even Burmistrov and Goldobin have higher average TOI.

Please don't compare Jake with the Twins  - do you understand the meaning of Hockey IQ? 

 

Imo Jake is just one or maybe two seasons from finding there is no longer a place for him in the team unless he ups his physicality and work rate. Watch his line mates Dowd and Gaunce and see how much work they put in and then watch Jake.

Another thing that Virtanen does is change on-the-fly too early.   Umpteen times a game he leaves the ice while his mates continue on their shift, or change 10 or 20 seconds later.  It's as if he lacks confidence or lacks the hockey I.Q. to hang in there a bit longer.  He has the body and type of game (when he tries) to wear down the opposition, in particular the D -- this kind of forward has to stay out there a bit longer to reap the rewards.  He has missed out on at least 6 goals and many more points because he volunteers to end his shifts early.  He should watch old Bertuzzi clips (or, pick your forward, there are plenty of examples) to see what a power forward does.    I am almost at the point of giving up on him.  Imagine Gaunce's brains and Virtanen's body/speed packed into the same player?  Lol.  Or Dorsett's heart and forecheck with Virtanen's (healthy) body -- no justice in sports. 

 

The biggest problem is lack of intensity/work output.