[Report] Canucks reassign Nikolay Goldobin to Comets

[samurai]

On 1/14/2018 at 11:36 AM, Dazzle said:

Sure you have. :rollseyes:

 

Seems like experts are everywhere on these boards.

 

Based on how little information you've provided, I've been assessing young talent for years myself.

Yeah and good one with the waiver exempt claim.  

[coastal.view]

2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Your point is that he needs more time, understood.

I see Goldy the same way I saw Yak.

I am unconvinced that “more time” readies the desire needed to become more competitive. A highlight reel goal and effort, here and there, is for beer leagues, not the NHL.

 

Where I disagree with you is obviously on what we see as inherent character differences as they relate to the possibility of Goldy becoming something which the future core can be supported by.

 

The way I see it is that, “A  $&!# leopard can’t change its spots.” - Mr. Jim Lahey.

Goldy isn’t getting a heart transplant. He is what he is. 

 

You’re making excuses for his play here, unless double standards for Boeser or other young players are excluded from your logic in, “putting him on a gutted roster does not serve his best interests”. For starters, what skilled kid doesn’t want steady top-6 playing time? Also, what does it say about his apparent need to be sheltered, even coddled from being exposed to what Boeser has had to endure? 

 

He’s not that young, certainly not like Virtanen was when he was riding the pine. 

 

I also disagree with your Virtanen comparable, though I doubt you expected it to be much of a point. Virtanen is not a fair comparable beyond the noise claim, in that, he is/was not at all a typical, one-dimensional, smallish Canucks Proto-prospect, but Goldy remains just that, IMO. Still, Goldy can prove me wrong and you right and the story will have a happy ending, but it’s a long shot and players of his kind are a dime a dozen. 

not sure how to respond to this

on the one hand you view him as a dime a dozen player ? really?

he is a 1st rounder who is still young and has a high talent level

 

yet you want to place the dime a dozen player on an nhl roster..

how do you reconcile these 2 comments?

 

some players require development time

players, like brock, who just step into a line up are unusual

that is not normal

 

i'm advocating giving him development time

and yes that means he is not yet proven

and he may fail

but i'm thinking he might also succeed is properly developed

[coastal.view]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

I think he'd be worth a 2nd round pick, sure.  (Well, you said lower... but I'd say about a 2nd round).  If that's all we could get for him and if Benning feels he isn't going to be an NHL player, I'd rather get a 2nd than to keep him around trying to develop him and then get nothing out of him at all.

you won't get a second for him . that was my point

would you pay a second for shinkaruk now ?

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

you won't get a second for him . that was my point

would you pay a second for shinkaruk now ?

We paid seconds for both Vey and Baer.  Maybe that's the going rate for a stalled prospect, who has really good AHL numbers, but hasn't had NHL success?

[kloubek]

13 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

would you pay a second for shinkaruk now ?

No, but then, I believe it is highly unlikely that he will be a player in the NHL. Even in the AHL he has regressed to a point-every-other-game player in relatively short order.  Alf brought up a great point about both Vey and Baertschi.

 

Goldobin has FAR more upside and potential than Shinkaruk does right now.  He's been a point per game producer for 3-4 years now in the AHL. My concern if I was a GM looking at that is it doesn't look like he has progressed in that league. But he at least has enough talent to maintain a good pace. If I was a GM in need for scoring, I'd consider a 2nd for him for sure; especially a late second. And if Benning feels he will produce in the NHL then I don't want him to get rid of him at all. I've actually been pretty excited about Goldobin the moment we got him and really hope he can find his overall game.

 

[canuckleheads fan]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I love the Sedin's but we have to move on. If they could do the unthinkable and split them up once in a while maybe, but that never seems to be an option. The problem is we're always looking for that "fit" with the Sedin's and thats not always the best thing for the development of other players. Can't play Goldy with them because its too hard to get more offensive zone time. Can't play Jake with them. Loui is hot and cold with them. etc etc. 

 

Other than Kane, who would you want to pay out big $ and term to? I'm not sure I'd really want to go 5 or 6 years with anyone else on that list. 

Totally disagree with this. First, we have nobody ready to step into the 2nd/3rd line role the twins SHOULD be filling. Hank and Dank have been remarkably effective since Bo and Sutter got hurt. They have been full value, and regularly putting up points like a solid second line. The problem is nobody has stepped up to pick up the scoring slack and we have a 3rd line that doesn't seem to have a role.

 

I think Pettersson and Dahlin will take one more year of growth and professional experience before they're ready to step in. Had it not been for the series of critical injuries this team, as currently comprised, would have been in the playoff picture. 

 

The twins are easy to play with, their winger just skates hard on the zone entry, wins a puck battle on the boards to start the cycle, finds a shooting position near the net, then skates hard on defense catching the third forward on the rush. They made career journeymen Anson Carter and Alex Burrows (who was my favorite player) into very rich snipers who never again came close to the numbers they had with the twins. Goldie had some success with them at the end of last season, but refused to backcheck. Brock also had some success, but I think Green likes him better with Vanek. It amazes me that Jake can't figure out how to play with them, he'd have at least 10 goals by now. 

 

We saw last night that a Dankless Hank is not nearly as effective as when the Twins are together.

[coastal.view]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

We paid seconds for both Vey and Baer.  Maybe that's the going rate for a stalled prospect, who has really good AHL numbers, but hasn't had NHL success?

but not if he is already on his second team

both of the players you mentioned were still with their first organization

[JM_]

5 hours ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Totally disagree with this. First, we have nobody ready to step into the 2nd/3rd line role the twins SHOULD be filling. Hank and Dank have been remarkably effective since Bo and Sutter got hurt. They have been full value, and regularly putting up points like a solid second line. The problem is nobody has stepped up to pick up the scoring slack and we have a 3rd line that doesn't seem to have a role.

 

I think Pettersson and Dahlin will take one more year of growth and professional experience before they're ready to step in. Had it not been for the series of critical injuries this team, as currently comprised, would have been in the playoff picture. 

 

The twins are easy to play with, their winger just skates hard on the zone entry, wins a puck battle on the boards to start the cycle, finds a shooting position near the net, then skates hard on defense catching the third forward on the rush. They made career journeymen Anson Carter and Alex Burrows (who was my favorite player) into very rich snipers who never again came close to the numbers they had with the twins. Goldie had some success with them at the end of last season, but refused to backcheck. Brock also had some success, but I think Green likes him better with Vanek. It amazes me that Jake can't figure out how to play with them, he'd have at least 10 goals by now. 

 

We saw last night that a Dankless Hank is not nearly as effective as when the Twins are together.

I don't think you're looking at the entire picture with them, the Sedins make 75% o-zone starts, which means someone else is making up the defensive duties. We've seen them have some pretty bad shifts this year and last defensively. And if it was so "easy" to find them a partner why hasn't Green done it? As far as their production, Vanek has actually done better so you can replace them and don't have the constraints of having to have 2 players together all the time. 

 

We were in a playoff spot because of the Baer-Bo-Boeser line emerging as a true top line scoring threat. 

 

 

 

 

[alfstonker]

14 hours ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Totally disagree with this. First, we have nobody ready to step into the 2nd/3rd line role the twins SHOULD be filling. Hank and Dank have been remarkably effective since Bo and Sutter got hurt. They have been full value, and regularly putting up points like a solid second line. The problem is nobody has stepped up to pick up the scoring slack and we have a 3rd line that doesn't seem to have a role.

 

I think Pettersson and Dahlin will take one more year of growth and professional experience before they're ready to step in. Had it not been for the series of critical injuries this team, as currently comprised, would have been in the playoff picture. 

 

The twins are easy to play with, their winger just skates hard on the zone entry, wins a puck battle on the boards to start the cycle, finds a shooting position near the net, then skates hard on defense catching the third forward on the rush. They made career journeymen Anson Carter and Alex Burrows (who was my favorite player) into very rich snipers who never again came close to the numbers they had with the twins. Goldie had some success with them at the end of last season, but refused to backcheck. Brock also had some success, but I think Green likes him better with Vanek. It amazes me that Jake can't figure out how to play with them, he'd have at least 10 goals by now. 

 

We saw last night that a Dankless Hank is not nearly as effective as when the Twins are together.

Not sure if that is still the case. 

 

We have Boeser, Bo, Baertschi, Sutter, Virtanen, Ericsson, Granlund, Gagner, Vanek at present who could fill the top 3 lines, with Gaunce, Dowd and Chaput taking the 4th line places.

If we used the $14M cap we are paying the Sedins wisely we could, for the sake of argument, go out and get Josh Bailey and Evander Kane (UFAs) and still likely have $2M left over.

 

We also have the possibility of Gaudette, Dahlen, Pettersson and maybe Gadjovich making the step up after SAY 30-40 games in the AHL. Also who knows who JB might snag in the draft or the US College graduates.

Anyway as I say people keep seeing these retirements in isolation. Sure they would be gone but we would have their salary and imo even an average 1st/2nd liner with speed combined with strong defensive instincts would be an upgrade on the Sedins now. 

 

Are we really saying someone like this at say $4.5 would not be an upgrade on a Sedin?

 

 

 

[Jaimito]

conditioning stint. Hope he lights it up again and get back. 

[bad alice french]

3 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Not sure if that is still the case. 

 

We have Boeser, Bo, Baertschi, Sutter, Virtanen, Ericsson, Granlund, Gagner, Vanek at present who could fill the top 3 lines, with Gaunce, Dowd and Chaput taking the 4th line places.

If we used the $14M cap we are paying the Sedins wisely we could, for the sake of argument, go out and get Josh Bailey and Evander Kane (UFAs) and still likely have $2M left over.

 

We also have the possibility of Gaudette, Dahlen, Pettersson and maybe Gadjovich making the step up after SAY 30-40 games in the AHL. Also who knows who JB might snag in the draft or the US College graduates.

Anyway as I say people keep seeing these retirements in isolation. Sure they would be gone but we would have their salary and imo even an average 1st/2nd liner with speed combined with strong defensive instincts would be an upgrade on the Sedins now. 

 

Are we really saying someone like this at say $4.5 would not be an upgrade on a Sedin?

 

 

 

Thanks for saving me the time of posting this exact response. We can't wait sit around for 3-6 years waiting for young, unproven draft picks to save the day. We need some good trades and some good signings. That's why Benning still doesn't haver a contract. He's made some astute picks, a bunch of wait and see's, some good mid grade trades but has yet to knock one out of the park with a UFA signing. He needs the twins' salaries to do so. Bailey and Kane are good examples of various possible signings that would make us a playoff threat overnight. It stuns me sometimes how low the expectancies have become around this team. 

[bad alice french]

Career AHLer.

So far, simply doesn't have big league wheels or compete level. I hope I'm wrong but just saying.

If you're reading this Goldie, still cheering for you. Get 'er done!

[bad alice french]

18 hours ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Totally disagree with this. First, we have nobody ready to step into the 2nd/3rd line role the twins SHOULD be filling. Hank and Dank have been remarkably effective since Bo and Sutter got hurt. They have been full value, and regularly putting up points like a solid second line. The problem is nobody has stepped up to pick up the scoring slack and we have a 3rd line that doesn't seem to have a role.

 

I think Pettersson and Dahlin will take one more year of growth and professional experience before they're ready to step in. Had it not been for the series of critical injuries this team, as currently comprised, would have been in the playoff picture. 

 

The twins are easy to play with, their winger just skates hard on the zone entry, wins a puck battle on the boards to start the cycle, finds a shooting position near the net, then skates hard on defense catching the third forward on the rush. They made career journeymen Anson Carter and Alex Burrows (who was my favorite player) into very rich snipers who never again came close to the numbers they had with the twins. Goldie had some success with them at the end of last season, but refused to backcheck. Brock also had some success, but I think Green likes him better with Vanek. It amazes me that Jake can't figure out how to play with them, he'd have at least 10 goals by now. 

 

We saw last night that a Dankless Hank is not nearly as effective as when the Twins are together.

So conflicted. Agreed the twins have stepped up point wise lately. Disagree that they are easy to play with. During their heyday of making players around them better, they were able to retrieve and cycle puts at will. Not the case anymore and once again their scoreboard contributions aren't winning games for us. The twins are such a paradigm for us homers. So much respect but I just can't  shake the feeling that we are in some way being held back with them still occupying salary and spots in the line up that could be used to try another direction.

[bigbadcanucks]

Gonna chime in on this one...

 

I have a feeling that Goldobin will slowly become redundant if he remains a Canuck property beyond his current contract.  There's no denying his talent and skill set, but with the pending arrival of a promising stable of prospects, Goldobin could very well be looking from the outside in.  I'm sure there will be some opportunities in the very near future for Goldobin with the pending speculative retirement of the Sedins sometime in the next 18 months and lag period for Pettersen and Dahlen to become NHL-ready (i.e., fill out their frame), but IMO, the show-called window for Goldobin is the remainder of this season and next.  That doesn't leave much time for him.

 

I really like how Benning has loaded the prospect pool with talented/highly skilled players through the draft and trades...it gives him the flexibility to go after inexpensive role players in the UFA market.  With that being said, I hope JB targets Ryan Reaves, Antoine Roussel, Brayden McNabb and Evander Kane (though he would be expensive).  These IMO, are types of players that are lacking on the Canucks roster and would fit well with the up-tempo game that Green likes to play and add some toughness (okay...Ryan Reaves is bit of a stretch for the speedy NHL, but wouldn't you love to see having a player like him get in Matt Tkachuk's grill and to make it a safer working environment for Boeser, Pettersen, Gaudette, Dahlen, et. al.?).

[Where'd Luongo?]

Maybe I'm alone here but I thought Goldy did pretty well. He looked good out there, made some slick plays, and was able to open up some space with his hands. After putting up 4 points in 14 games, I think he proved that he can get points in the NHL even in a reduced role, something many of the canucks prospects weren't able to do.

[gregthehockeynut]

On 1/15/2018 at 11:38 AM, coastal.view said:

think is he does not make it with the canucks next fall he'll beplaying in the khl next

This is why we need to flip him b4 tdl to get some return especially if the player development team sees him as at least a year away from making the NHL

[rekker]

8 minutes ago, gregthehockeynut said:

This is why we need to flip him b4 tdl to get some return especially if the player development team sees him as at least a year away from making the NHL

I wonder if the KHL isn't a bad place for him. He can develop there and we still own his rights. He needs to mature. Still plays the game like a junior player. 

[coastal.view]

26 minutes ago, gregthehockeynut said:

This is why we need to flip him b4 tdl to get some return especially if the player development team sees him as at least a year away from making the NHL

so you'd take a 3 rounder or less for him

rather then try to continue to develop him

into a player that might make the team in training camp this fall ?

can't handle the anxiety of a russian player maybe choosing to leave for the khl if they cannot cut it here ?

[Vinny in Vancouver]

Canucks getting ready to trade him for Tryamkin! I kid, I kid.

[gregthehockeynut]

2 hours ago, coastal.view said:

so you'd take a 3 rounder or less for him

rather then try to continue to develop him

into a player that might make the team in training camp this fall ?

can't handle the anxiety of a russian player maybe choosing to leave for the khl if they cannot cut it here ?

   It used be that once a player went back to Russia (Artem Chubarov etc.) they never come back. I guess that's changed somewhat. I would be curious to see data on the number and success of players rejoining the NHL after the KHL. It's probably close to the Swedish Elite league for skill level? I would need convincing that the K is better than the SEL or AHL to develop players for the NHL game and rink size. I don't think this is like the Burmistrov scenario where it seemed he was ready to bolt. But if Nikolay sees himself falling down the depth chart that could change. So, yes flip the asset now for whatever you can get if they really see him stuck at this play level. Fans were miffed when we got nothing for Vrbata or Hamhuis and I see these players 22-23yrs+ going to the KHL the same as free agents we 'll never see again. It's cold hard buisness sense to flip assets that aren't in the rebuild plan. If Nik gets a recall after the break and lights it up some that's great but he has to show more and immediately at his age.