Are the Sedins future changing?

[The Lock]

12 minutes ago, Qwags said:

If you were Benning, how much would you re-sign the Sedins for. I would go for 3.5M each.

I think it would depend on whether it's 1 or 2 or more years. I would assume it would be for 1 year, but you never know. If it's more than that, Benning then has to consider Boeser's contract in the future plus whatever other obstacles come his way in terms of money in the meantime.

 

That being said, even at 3.5M each, that's 7Mil in cap hit savings from this year. No matter what, it's going to give some breathing space.

[Drew.Doughty]

14 minutes ago, Baggins said:

You'd lose that bet. They've said several times they don't want to play for any other team and want to retire here.

 

Iginla moved because he was asked to waive his ntc. He didn't win the cup and signed with a team as a ufa that had no hope of a cup. He signed because his good friend was there.

 

Jagr signed with new Jersey and Florida because they were a contenders? lmao

Iginla got traded from Calgary to Pittsburgh (contender). Signed with the Bruins (117 points that year). Colorado the year after (90 points, missed playoffs but year before had 52 wins)

 

Jagr signed with New Jersey who was 2 points out of the playoffs the year he signed. He got traded to the Panthers in 2014-15 who were 5 points out of the playoffs. So yes, they were signing with teams that were perceived to be contenders.

 

If you are going to make things up, at least do your research.

 

Go google Iginla trade and you can see how he didn't want to be traded. Go look at Sundin and how he didn't want to get traded from the Leafs but signed with the Canucks the year after. They do it for the cup.

[Baggins]

2 minutes ago, Drew.Doughty said:

Iginla got traded from Calgary to Pittsburgh (contender). Signed with the Bruins (117 points that year). Colorado the year after (90 points, missed playoffs but year before had 52 wins)

 

Jagr signed with New Jersey who was 2 points out of the playoffs the year he signed. He got traded to the Panthers in 2014-15 who were 5 points out of the playoffs. So yes, they were signing with teams that were perceived to be contenders.

 

If you are going to make things up, at least do your research.

 

Go google Iginla trade and you can see how he didn't want to be traded. Go look at Sundin and how he didn't want to get traded from the Leafs but signed with the Canucks the year after. They do it for the cup.

So in your opinion almost being a playoff team = contender. You have a low standard for the term 'contender'.

 

I don't need to google it. If you have an ntc and agree to waive it at the deadline it's rather obvious you're going to a contender. Iginla had an ntc. He could have refused to waive as Sundin did. He chose not to. He may not have wanted to move, but he was asked to waive and he agreed. His choice. Sundin was asked to waive and refused. His choice. He then took quite a while before deciding between retiring and playing for another team. Again, his choice.

 

The Sedins have said they don't want to play for any other team. Their choice. Benning has said they won't be asked to waive as long as he's GM. So if Benning won't ask and the Sedins don't want to play for another team.... 1 + 1 = ?

[billabong]

 

Make a poll, do you want the Sedins back? Yes or no? Even At 1yr/1m? 

 

Personally i think it would be stupid to re-sign them before we see how the off season plays out.

 

Don’t start spending till July 1st is my point 

 

no doubt they are the best players and human beings that have ever played for this team, but this team doesn’t owe them anything and at 38 how effective can they be? 

[Drew.Doughty]

27 minutes ago, Baggins said:

So in your opinion almost being a playoff team = contender. You have a low standard for the term 'contender'.

 

I don't need to google it. If you have an ntc and agree to waive it at the deadline it's rather obvious you're going to a contender. Iginla had an ntc. He could have refused to waive as Sundin did. He chose not to. He may not have wanted to move, but he was asked to waive and he agreed. His choice. Sundin was asked to waive and refused. His choice. He then took quite a while before deciding between retiring and playing for another team. Again, his choice.

 

The Sedins have said they don't want to play for any other team. Their choice. Benning has said they won't be asked to waive as long as he's GM. So if Benning won't ask and the Sedins don't want to play for another team.... 1 + 1 = ?

as i already stated, Iginla signed with teams that had over 100 points the year before. the only reason you say the team isn't a playoff contender was because this is in hindsight. Everyone predicted the Avalanche to be playoff contenders the year after. Yea, guess what, how often do you hear a player refusing to waive their NTC when they were asked. Garrison had a NTC and agreed to waive it just after signing with the Canucks. Literally Bieksa and Kesler agreed to waive when asked..

 

Good to know you believe everything the media feeds you.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

36 minutes ago, Baggins said:

So in your opinion almost being a playoff team = contender. You have a low standard for the term 'contender'.

When Iggy signed with the Av's they were just coming off a break out season putting up 112 points and finished 1st in the central.  Their goalie just came off a vezina nomination goalie (who should have won) and their latest first overall pick, just came off winning the calder trophy.  Av's were far from a team that had no hope.  They were a young an upcoming team that everyone thought would make a deep run the following year.  

 

 

Even Iggy thought they were going to be contenders

 

"Being able to get term and some stability for my family, but also being able to be part of this team and have a chance as they grow ... I think they can contend and just get better and better. I'm really excited about it."

 

[The Lock]

6 minutes ago, Drew.Doughty said:

as i already stated, Iginla signed with teams that had over 100 points the year before. the only reason you say the team isn't a playoff contender was because this is in hindsight. Everyone predicted the Avalanche to be playoff contenders the year after. Yea, guess what, how often do you hear a player refusing to waive their NTC when they were asked. Garrison had a NTC and agreed to waive it just after signing with the Canucks. Literally Bieksa and Kesler agreed to waive when asked..

 

Good to know you believe everything the media feeds you.

That would be impossible to really come up with an accurate number. If a player was asked to waive and he said no, that would likely remain behind closed doors. Therefore, we likely have never known about a lot of them, if they occured, and never will.

[PhillipBlunt]

On 1/19/2018 at 5:32 PM, ftmN said:

I would highly doubt they will move, especially at the deadline. I would still bet they retire here #alwaysacanuck

I certainly hope that they do retire. This offseason. 

 

Their legacy is growing moss. They are beyond the point of being difference makers, and being bound to each other, roster wise, handicaps the organization, as far as bringing in newer players. 

[Qwags]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

I think it would depend on whether it's 1 or 2 or more years. I would assume it would be for 1 year, but you never know. If it's more than that, Benning then has to consider Boeser's contract in the future plus whatever other obstacles come his way in terms of money in the meantime.

 

That being said, even at 3.5M each, that's 7Mil in cap hit savings from this year. No matter what, it's going to give some breathing space.

I'm going with the assumption that it's only one year. Plus, 3.5M each is unloading one of their contracts, so it works out.

[oldnews]

Spitball:

 

Always been team first guys - perhaps they're thinking 'get something for us if you can rent us - might be fun to go on a playoff 'vacation' and re-sign in July.

Combining for 62 points in 45 games - not having to carry the team, playing 15 minutes/night despite all the injuiries.  Can still produce, wear on opposition - and that's here, in a more primary role, without the support....

 

So - spitballing here but the Ducks have a top 6, top 9 really, that can handle hard minutes.  Some big, heavy forwards - hard to play against - some elite shutdown forwards as well.

And some physical depth forwards to round out the last few spots (Wagner, Brown, Boll, Grant...) - but they're not Sedins.

The Ducks with yet another scoring line / level of scoring depth....how difficult would they be to handle / matchup against?

Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler - all 32 yrs old.  No time to mess around.

Sedins are 14 million cap hit - but at the deadline it's pro-rated, with about 25% of the season left - so more in the range of 3.5 million - possible with retention - and the Ducks have 4.6 in space....

 

Rakell Getzlaf Perry

Cogliano Kesler Kase

Ritchie Vermette Henrique

Sedin Sedin Silfverberg

 

Re-unite Juice, Kesler, Miller and the Sedins for a run.

 

Sedins retained to Anaheim for Sam Steel and a 2nd.

 

[alfstonker]

6 hours ago, The Lock said:

I think one of the issues with this right now is we don't see them on a good team at the moment. I mean, let's be honest: we don't have a good team right now so there's going to be that chance for them to be better on a good team. They are still on pace to being 50+ point producers on a bad team. That's not bad for couple of 37 year olds. That's actually pretty good. Perhaps we're just not used to them being under 80+ so suddenly they are "has beens"? (and that could be argued depending on how you want to think about it) I don't really know.

 

I don't really see how splitting them up would really help things. It's a thought that might work, but that's all it is: just a thought. It's impossible to claim that things would be better if they were split up for a prolonged period of time as it simply hasn't happened. Perhaps in your opinion things would be better, but I just don't know how it could? Would there be some magical increased chemistry? In what way would it actually be better? I'm curious on what makes you think this way.

 

This all being said, I would be extremely surprised if they were traded. I'm not expecting it to happen when the Sedins have exclusively stated they want to finish their careers here.

 

So, two slow players who can't back check if their life depended on it, who create half their giveaways by trying impossible passes to each other and play on the 2nd line are better than one.

 

handicap

ˈhandɪkap/

noun

 

1. 

a circumstance that makes progress or success difficult.

"not being able to drive was something of a handicap"

synonyms:       impediment, hindrance, obstacle, barrier, bar, encumbrance; More   1.  act as an impediment to. "lack of funding has handicapped the development of research" synonyms: hamper, impede, hinder, impair, disadvantage, put at a disadvantage, hamstring, curtail; More

im

 

Not only that but I laugh my ass off when I see suggestions like putting Boeser or recently Pettersson on a line with them. Are we really trying to "kill off" our young prospects? ANY player playing with the Twins better be a) prepared to coast around waiting on them finally deciding to give you a pass b)) work their ass off getting them the puck. Is that really how we want to deploy our young talent?

 

Frankly it is no wonder we can't win a Cup with the amount of sentimentality that runs through this Club and some of it's fanbase. It is laughable to be 60-70% through a rebuild and yet we OPENLY allow two players who have long past seen their best days and are now only a shadow of what they were dictate to this organisation when they will retire. It has to be said though, I doubt if they set it up this way; this is people like Trevor Linden and his influence with the owners that is causing this imo. Can you imagine Hank saying "We will let you know when we want to retire from the team"

 

I just want to watch this team struggle (if we must) without them rather than struggle with them because that way we will know we are moving on, changing our identity, opening up two places for younger, fitter, more able players, players who can attack AND defend. They are already here.

 

Baertschi - Horvat - Boeser

Eriksson - Sutter - Virtanen

Vanek - Granlund - Goldobin

Gaunce  - Dowd - Gagner

 

Now you can rehash the combinations anyway you like and we may not win any more games (I think we would) but at least that team can defend and attack and is carrying no passengers (except maybe Goldobin and Jake but they need to be allowed to play now, not sit on the bench and watch the Twins make just as many if not more mistakes than they do) We will reinforce from the freed up $14M in the new season.

 

I loved the Sedins but they just look so frail and slow now it breaks me up watching what they are turning into.

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

Spitball:

 

Always been team first guys - perhaps they're thinking 'get something for us if you can rent us - might be fun to go on a playoff 'vacation' and re-sign in July.

Combining for 62 points in 45 games - not having to carry the team, playing 15 minutes/night despite all the injuiries.  Can still produce, wear on opposition - and that's here, in a more primary role, without the support....

 

So - spitballing here but the Ducks have a top 6, top 9 really, that can handle hard minutes.  Some big, heavy forwards - hard to play against - some elite shutdown forwards as well.

And some physical depth forwards to round out the last few spots (Wagner, Brown, Boll, Grant...) - but they're not Sedins.

The Ducks with yet another scoring line / level of scoring depth....how difficult would they be to handle / matchup against?

Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler - all 32 yrs old.  No time to mess around.

Sedins are 14 million cap hit - but at the deadline it's pro-rated, with about 25% of the season left - so more in the range of 3.5 million - possible with retention - and the Ducks have 4.6 in space....

 

Rakell Getzlaf Perry

Cogliano Kesler Kase

Ritchie Vermette Henrique

Sedin Sedin Silfverberg

 

Re-unite Juice, Kesler, Miller and the Sedins for a run.

 

Sedins retained to Anaheim for Sam Steel and a 2nd.

 

And then you woke up. 

 

Yep, Sedins, who couldn't catch a cold, on the 4th line where any coach worth his salt in the playoffs will send a 4th line out who will subject them to the type of "intimidation" they were subjected to by Boston and LA. 

The ensuing 5 on three breakaways would be entertaining.

[alfstonker]

5 hours ago, The Lock said:

I think it would depend on whether it's 1 or 2 or more years. I would assume it would be for 1 year, but you never know. If it's more than that, Benning then has to consider Boeser's contract in the future plus whatever other obstacles come his way in terms of money in the meantime.

 

That being said, even at 3.5M each, that's 7Mil in cap hit savings from this year. No matter what, it's going to give some breathing space.

Honestly are they playing like $3.5M? - Who would you rather have Josh Bailey, Eric Stall, Charlie Coyle, Eler, Burakovsky? They are all playing for $3.5m or less.

 

Each - here we go again - take one and double it. Why not take just one and free up $10.5 or more realistically $12.5 because neither is worth more than $1.5 if that at present.

 

This fan base needs to wake up and start comparing present day value/worth/ability to what else is out there and shake the image of the Sedins 5-10 years ago out of their heads.

[oldnews]

7 hours ago, alfstonker said:

And then you woke up. 

 

woosh.

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Honestly are they playing like $3.5M? - Who would you rather have Josh Bailey, Eric Stall, Charlie Coyle, Eler, Burakovsky? They are all playing for $3.5m or less.

 

 

What absurd comparables.

 

Bailey is expiring - watch what Bailey signs for - after this 5 year deal ends - one he signed at age 23, when he was a 30-35 pt player.

Coyle - who they are outproducing, is in the midst of a contract he signed at age 23, as an RFA - and was a 35-40 pt player when he signed it...

 

The Sedins have 62 points combined in 45 games this year - playing middle six minutes.  They're tracking for 56 pts each. 

 

Thanks for the "wake up" but your take on 'reality', isn't.

 

 

[JM_]

11 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I certainly hope that they do retire. This offseason. 

 

Their legacy is growing moss. They are beyond the point of being difference makers, and being bound to each other, roster wise, handicaps the organization, as far as bringing in newer players. 

I'm feeling the same way... if they would just try splitting them up, what the hell do we have to lose? I know this line of thinking generates howls of 'where will the offence come from!' but thats a bit ridiculous imo, we can find 40 point players in free agency or maybe even in our system given a chance. Its time. 

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, oldnews said:

The Sedins have 62 points combined in 45 games this year - playing middle six minutes.  They're tracking for 56 pts each.

and in the range of -15 to -20. For 3.5-4 mil we can bring in some other skill sets to the team, more toughness, better defensive ability, similar points.... there are options. 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2019/caphit/all/forwards/ufa

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

and in the range of -15 to -20. For 3.5-4 mil we can bring in some other skill sets to the team, more toughness, better defensive ability, similar points.... there are options. 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2019/caphit/all/forwards/ufa

I could not care less about +/-.

And 3.5 million was not my number, and had nothing to do with my post.

 

I was spitballing a rental scenario for shizz and giggles - but regardless, their underlying values are patently obvious.

 

I doubt the Sedins would demand 3.5 - but their production this year is easily worth that on a one year term - and I have no doubt an NHL GM would give them that.

 

Marleau hasn't produced 56 points since 2014.-15.  He currently has 24 pts. 

He was given a three year, 18.75 million deal - and he's a year older than they are.

 

Alf et al can laugh at the idea of the Sedins at one year for 3.5 - but if the point is to get real, lets.   They'd probably take yet another discount and come in at Vanek money - but make no mistake about what their production is actually worth.

 

 

[JM_]

20 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I could not care less about +/-.

And 3.5 million was not my number, and had nothing to do with my post.

 

I was spitballing a rental scenario for shizz and giggles - but regardless, their underlying values are patently obvious.

 

I doubt the Sedins would demand 3.5 - but their production this year is easily worth that on a one year term - and I have no doubt an NHL GM would give them that.

 

Marleau hasn't produced 56 points since 2014.-15.  He currently has 24 pts. 

He was given a three year, 18.75 million deal - and he's a year older than they are.

 

Alf et al can laugh at the idea of the Sedins at one year for 3.5 - but if the point is to get real, lets.   They'd probably take yet another discount and come in at Vanek money - but make no mistake about what their production is actually worth.

 

 

I don't disagree on the production, but what about defensively or that they must always be together.... don't you see those as potentially being issues? 

[Westcoasting]

39 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

and in the range of -15 to -20. For 3.5-4 mil we can bring in some other skill sets to the team, more toughness, better defensive ability, similar points.... there are options. 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2019/caphit/all/forwards/ufa

I would say sign them for 3 mill a season, anything higher and they can try the open market.