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Kinder Morgan Pipeline Talk


kingofsurrey

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5 minutes ago, MikeyBoy44 said:

I agree there. Would definitely try.

I can't climb much anymore but when i did rappelling was one of my favourite things to do. Its also very easy to get these guys out of the way if you want to get a ship through, all you have to do is arrest the guys belaying at the bridge and then just wind the fools up 20 feet. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/29/2018 at 4:41 PM, kingofsurrey said:

Why Canada now owns a pipeline that has value that  will never be expanded.......  That is called an investment. 

 

Albertans are getting played...

Not really, as the current pipeline is coming to it's end of age. And by our own environmental laws the "owner" of the pipeline is responsible for clean up and remidation of the entire pipeline and lease sites. The reason they wanted to twin the line is 2 fold. To prep for the end of life of the original line and to continue production through their new pipeline (but would produce through both until the old line is no longer safe to use)...if that new line isn't built then our government and Canadian tax payers will suffer due to the large costs associated with pipeline abandonment and site remidiation...now when I say end of life, they usually think of 100's of years for pipelines. But what they are finding is that the old pipe in the ground from the 50's has been forming stress cracks due to ground movement. The old pipe does not have the flexibility for ground movement like the new pipe does today...so yeah great investement...

 

The only way this remains a good investment is if the line is twinned and the production keeps flowing. If the old line is abandoned due to safety reasons in 15-20 years time then by law we would have to go through the abandonment process (which if the Canadian government still owns will be millions of dollars worth of tax payer money going into it)...if the line is twinned and stays running then there are no issues as the new pipe is proposed on around 85 % of the existing pipeline route and would still be considered "operational"...so no abandonment process needed.

 

KOS, you continue to just spin your own stories on this forum with out knowing the first thing at all about our oil and gas industry, I try time and time again in this thread to try and create an understanding of what is actually going on and you just continue to plug in your anti pipeline sentiment stories as some form of "proof". Most of the things you have posted on here I have carefully taken the time to respond to give you a better idea of my end of things...but you obviously don't care at all to see both sides... I really hope that you take the time to start learning about OUR end of the industry a bit better. WE are not the pirates you believe us to be.

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On 6/29/2018 at 4:41 PM, kingofsurrey said:

Why Canada now owns a pipeline that has value that  will never be expanded.......  That is called an investment. 

 

Albertans are getting played...

Just one more point. And i'm sorry for ragging on you in my other post. But I do hope we can come to a clear understanding. This all boils down to a major safety and environmental issue. We don't want this line failing on us do we? The inspection processes that are in place are the best they have ever been and can detect failure in pipelines way earlier than ever before. So we can hope to get another decade or two of safe operation, but what if it doesn't last that long? Then what? It would be a massive black hole money wise. With no twinning the line would be dead, and us tax payers stuck with the abandonement costs of it all. It's not a good scenario at all.

 

Whether we want to agree or not, I just don't see how we can economically let this happen? It can't be justified. If we didn't need the money generated from the pipeline then I would have a differnt view. C'est la vie buh bye. I wouldn't miss it. But that isn't the case at all. We need our energy lines. They are vital to our countries economy.

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No suckers to buy the KM from the government:

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4346382/ottawa-owner-trans-mountain-expansion-kinder-morgan/

 

Ottawa fails to find private-sector buyer for Trans Mountain pipeline expansion

 

OTTAWA – The federal government is set to become the official owner of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion after failing to quickly flip the project to another private-sector buyer.

Pipeline owner Kinder Morgan had been working with the government to identify another buyer before July 22.

But with that date set to pass without a deal, it was expected the pipeline company will now take Ottawa’s $4.5-billion offer to purchase the project to its shareholders.

Pending their approval, the sale, which includes the existing pipeline, the pumping stations and rights of way, and the Westridge marine terminal in Burnaby, B.C., will be approved sometime in August or September.

 

The $4.5-billion purchase price does not cover the construction costs of building the new pipeline, which previous estimates have pegged at around $7.4 billion.

Finding another buyer for the project before Sunday’s deadline was widely considered a long shot because of the project’s risks.

But the government insists it does not plan to own and operate the pipeline over the long term and is expected to continue talking to interested parties.

The government had previously indicated that there were numerous groups interested in purchasing the controversial project, including pension funds and Indigenous groups.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Cost to twin Trans Mountain pipeline could be $1.9B higher, Kinder Morgan says

The government was quick to point out the figure is not an official cost forecast. An official in Morneau's department, speaking on background because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said the numbers do not specifically reflect the government's expectation of what the final project cost will be.

However Robyn Allan, an independent economist and former CEO of the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia, said Kinder Morgan wouldn't evaluate the fairness of the sale based on numbers that have no bearing on reality.

Allan, who said she has expertise on a number of multibillion infrastructure projects, believes in the end $9.3 billion will seem like a steal compared to the final price tag.

"This is the least it's going to cost," said Allan.

 

 

Allan said the only detailed information Canadians have about the particulars of the sale is due to investor laws in the United States and Canada that require Kinder Morgan to file documents outlining the specifics of the deal. Since taxpayers are the shareholders of the project now, she said Canadians deserve the same level of disclosure from Ottawa and they aren't getting it.

B.C. New Democrat MP Nathan Cullen is equally frustrated, going so far as to call the government dishonest about the deal.

"It's frustrating, it's really, really frustrating that at their core has been a murky and dishonest transaction with so much money involved," he said. "I worry about what we're going to get stuck with."

Morneau's official said as soon as construction contracts are in place the government will freely release an official cost update, which he said should happen no later than next winter

 

MORE HERE

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/cost-to-twin-trans-mountain-pipeline-could-be-1-9b-higher-kinder-morgan-says-1.4043482

 

 

Edited by Mackcanuck
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Not suprising most things cost more the longer it takes to build materials costs go up labour is already being utilized gas prices are up.land becomes more expensive.

 

All these extra costs should be the responsibility of the protesters.

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1 hour ago, Violator said:

Not suprising most things cost more the longer it takes to build materials costs go up labour is already being utilized gas prices are up.land becomes more expensive.

 

All these extra costs should be the responsibility of the protesters.

Hopefully as costs rise... the project becomes economically non viable and is cancelled...

 

That is the best case scenario.

 

The world does not need more DIRTY energy ruining our environment / climate.   Dirty OIL projects need to be shut down. 

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18 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Hopefully as costs rise... the project becomes economically non viable and is cancelled...

 

That is the best case scenario.

 

The world does not need more DIRTY energy ruining our environment / climate.   Dirty OIL projects need to be shut down. 

Ill buy it before it gets cancelled i like money.

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49 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Hopefully as costs rise... the project becomes economically non viable and is cancelled...

 

That is the best case scenario.

 

The world does not need more DIRTY energy ruining our environment / climate.   Dirty OIL projects need to be shut down. 

That probably won't happen. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-bankers-bullish-on-trans-mountain-despite-forecast-that-costs-could/

 

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1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Hopefully as costs rise... the project becomes economically non viable and is cancelled...

 

That is the best case scenario.

 

The world does not need more DIRTY energy ruining our environment / climate.   Dirty OIL projects need to be shut down. 

Yes, the project would be cancelled if it becomes economically non viable IF it was still in private hands.   But now the government owns it,  you now how  the government is with taxpayers money,  it is a bottomless pit.   Money is no object if it is in government hands.

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  • 3 weeks later...
26 minutes ago, inane said:

Good thing we own this now. 

 

 

 

Edit. And yes, I know we bought the existing pipe, but still... 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-trans-mountain-federal-court-appeals-1.4804495

 

In a stunning blow, the Federal Court of Appeal has quashed the government's approvals to build the Trans Mountain expansion project — a major victory for Indigenous groups and environmentalists opposed to the $7.4-billion project.

In the decision released Thursday, and written by Justice Eleanor Dawson, the court found the National Energy Board's assessment of the project was so flawed that it should not have been relied on by the federal cabinet when it gave final approval to proceed in November 2016.

The certificate approving construction and operation of the project has been nullified, leaving the project in legal limbo until the energy regulator and the government reassess their approvals to satisfy the court's demands.

 

 

 

In its initial study of the project, the NEB found that the pipeline would not cause significant adverse environmental impacts.

But the court has determined that conclusion is bogus because it did not assess the impacts of marine shipping — increased tanker traffic that would result from the expanded pipeline — on the environment and southern resident killer whales in the waters around the line's shipping terminal.

The appellate court also found that the federal government did not adequately, or meaningfully, consult with Indigenous people and hear out their concerns after the NEB issued its report recommending that cabinet approve the project.

The court has ordered the federal government redo its Phase 3 consultation.

"Only after that consultation is completed and any accommodation made can the project be put before the Governor in Council (cabinet) for approval," the decision reads.

"The duty to consult was not adequately discharged in this case."

Edited by Mackcanuck
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41 minutes ago, inane said:

Good thing we own this now. 

 

 

 

Edit. And yes, I know we bought the existing pipe, but still... 

Wow just wow.... so basically we have 7.4 bill in dead money now for a bunch of pipe currently sitting in the ground not doing anything... I was so livid when they bought this, thought it was the stupidest thing possible because I knew when they "resold" it they would lose money, now they just lost even more.

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