JM_ Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Someone who actually thinks about the issues versus emotes about it ← On Southern Resident Killer Whales and the Trans Mountain Expansion Project More on the Southern Resident Killer Whales – this time on truthiness about acoustic threats and survivorship bias → On the environmental and social consequences if the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion project fails While I agree the current process has not been a perfect one; it had, at least, been a transparent one. The allocation of risks associated with the status quo has not involved the balancing of risks and is anything but transparent. As I have written numerous times, we need to wean Canada off fossil fuels as our primary energy source. If we are to avoid the serious consequences of climate change, we will need to eliminate fossil fuels from our energy mix. However, contrary to what many say, the process of doing so will take decades, and in the meantime we will still need petroleum hydrocarbons. The TMX project is the best project on the books to achieve that goal. some interesting points in there for sure. Certainly the use of more rail with dil bit isn't good. I think the folks worried about Trudeau buying the KM project with the secret intent to kill it are over-reacting. We're probably looking at a Liberal minority government next election, which should guarantee that this project goes ahead. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: unless everyone driving up the 99 is using a Tesla this is a bit of a stretch. I suppose it never hurts to ask. Dirty Bitumen oil revenues will never recover the true costs associated with its production. Keep the toxic carbon sludge in the ground where it belongs... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Dirty Bitumen oil revenues will never recover the true costs associated with its production. Keep the toxic carbon sludge in the ground where it belongs... maybe not, but Whistler was built on it. Its pretty hypocritical to call it out now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: maybe not, but Whistler was built on it. Its pretty hypocritical to call it out now. The earth is going into a critical phase... change the way we live immediately.... or else we doom our future generations with a planet that is uninhabitable.... That is not hypocritical... that is being a realist.... Humans need to adapt..... or perish.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: The earth is going into a critical phase... change the way we live immediately.... or else we doom our future generations with a planet that is uninhabitable.... That is not hypocritical... that is being a realist.... Humans need to adapt..... or perish.... sure but the mayor of Whistler asking the oil companies for money is a bit much, I mean the money is going to come from the sale of oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: Great news... Its about time the Dirty Albertans started to pay up for all the TRUE / Full . costs associated with Climate Change..... So are BCers dirty for all the oil they drill in northern BC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: sure but the mayor of Whistler asking the oil companies for money is a bit much, I mean the money is going to come from the sale of oil. The mayor of Whistler has a responsibility to the citizens of Whistler. Good for him for doing his job. Why should Alberta and Albertas get a free ride for the damage that province is doing to the rest of our country..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: The mayor of Whistler has a responsibility to the citizens of Whistler. Good for him for doing his job. Why should Alberta and Albertas get a free ride for the damage that province is doing to the rest of our country..? I don't think they should, or do really. Under our current system 1/2 the royalties go to the rest of us. I do think its worth exploring just how much more we ever want to invest in oil as a country, and also look at how we're going to pay for offsets and cleanup once the oil sands dry up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, chilliwiggins said: WALLE i think is more, WHALLEY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 27 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: The mayor of Whistler has a responsibility to the citizens of Whistler. Good for him for doing his job. Why should Alberta and Albertas get a free ride for the damage that province is doing to the rest of our country..? If his job is to stop people using oil, he should shut down all access to his community. He should ensure people do not burn fuel for heating. He should most certainly shut the ski hill - all those people using carbon fibre equipment wearing polar fleece and Gortex made from oil. THAT would be him doing his job from your logic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: unless everyone driving up the 99 is using a Tesla this is a bit of a stretch. I suppose it never hurts to ask. Teslas are made from carbon fibre. That is just for starters. https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/ TESLA'S ELECTRIC CARS AREN'T AS GREEN AS YOU MIGHT THINK TESLA Elon Musk is unveiling the Tesla Model 3 today. If you're planning to buy one, you’re probably feeling pretty good about yourself. Not only will you have a sweet ride, but you’ll be doing something good for the environment! No gasoline-powered sports cars to get you through your midlife crisis, thank you very much. You care about global warming. But how green is a Tesla, really? Devonshire Research Group, an investment firm that specializes in valuing tech companies, dug into the data and concluded that Tesla's environmental benefits may be more hyped than warranted. Devonshire isn’t saying that Tesla is pulling a Volkswagen, or that its cars are spewing greenhouse gases from invisible tailpipes. It’s arguing that Teslas (and, by extension, all electric vehicles) create pollution and carbon emissions in other ways. Each stage of an EV's life has environmental impacts, and while they aren't as obvious as a tailpipe pumping out fumes, that doesn't make them any less damaging. Let's start with the basics. Your electric car doesn’t need gas, but it still might get its energy from burning carbon. It depends on how your local grid generates electricity. “If you use coal-fired power plants to produce the electricity, then all-electrics don’t even look that much better than a traditional vehicle in terms of greenhouse gases,” says Virginia McConnell, an economist at the environmental research firm Resources for the Future. But if your local grid incorporates a fair amount of renewable solar and wind energy, like California, your electric vehicle is pretty clean. Of course, gasoline doesn't exist in a vacuum, either: Refining, processing, and transporting gas add emissions that car owners must factor into their overall carbon footprint, the so-called "well-to-wheel" tally. It takes as much energy to produce a gallon of gasoline as a Model S consumes in 20 miles of driving, according to Department of Energy data. When you add all those extra expenditures up, "an electric car like the Model S has almost four times lower CO2 per mile than an equivalent gas-powered car,” says a Tesla spokesperson. So while the emissions argument is tantalizing for gas guzzlers, the average numbers still come out in favor of electric vehicles. Beyond Emissions The math gets trickier, though, when you include other forms of environmental damage. Electric cars need to be light, which means they include a lot of high-performing metals. The lithium in the batteries, for example, is super light and conductive—that’s how you get a lot of energy without adding a lot of weight. Other, rare metals are sprinkled throughout the car, mostly in the magnets that are in everything from the headlights to the on-board electronics. But those rare metals come from somewhere—often, from environmentally destructive mines. It’s not just Tesla, of course. All electric vehicles rely on parts with similar environmental issues. Even solar panels depend on rare metals that have to be dug out of the earth and processed in less-than-green ways, says David Abraham, author of the book The Elements of Power. (Disclosure: I helped edit some chapters of the book.) We can’t look at mining as an over-there thing and at Tesla as an over-here thing. They’re intricately linked. DAVID ABRAHAM Rare metals only exist in tiny quantities and inconvenient places—so you have to move a lot of earth to get just a little bit. In the Jiangxi rare earth mine in China, Abraham writes, workers dig eight-foot holes and pour ammonium sulfate into them to dissolve the sandy clay. Then they haul out bags of muck and pass it through several acid baths; what’s left is baked in a kiln, leaving behind the rare earths required by everything from our phones to our Teslas. At this mine, those rare earths amounted to 0.2 percent of what gets pulled out of the ground. The other 99.8 percent—now contaminated with toxic chemicals—is dumped back into the environment. That damage is difficult to quantify, just like the impact of oil drilling. And, as in every stage of the process, mining has hidden emissions. Jiangxi has it relatively easy because it’s digging up clay, but many mines rely on rock-crushing equipment with astronomical energy bills, as well as coal-fired furnaces for the final baking stages. Those spew a lot of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in the process of refining a material destined for your zero-emissions car. In fact, manufacturing an electric vehicle generates more carbon emissions than building a conventional car, mostly because of its battery, the Union of Concerned Scientists has found. “We’re shifting pollution, and in the process we’re hoping that it doesn’t have the environmental impact,” says Abraham. He believes that when you add all the environmental impacts, they still come out in favor of electric vehicles. (The Union of Concerned Scientists agrees; it found that even when you add in emissions from battery manufacturing, EVs generate half the emissions of a conventional car over the course of its life.) Still, consumers and investors should understand what it takes to make the materials that enable their green choices. “I don’t think there’s been much discussion of that,” Abraham says. “We can’t look at mining as an over-there thing and at Tesla as an over-here thing. They’re intricately linked.” Overall, “the greenhouse-gas-emissions footprint of electric vehicles can be pretty high on the front end, as they’re being built,” says McConnell. “And so you need to get a lot of benefits on the other side, when you use it.” And after you're done using it. Life After Death Now let’s fast-forward 15 years, to when your Tesla Model 3 is on its last legs. Where is the battery going to go? The good news is: not to a landfill. “It has not been accepted for a battery that comes out of a car to go to a landfill for decades,” says electric car advocate Chelsea Sexton. Instead, “battery recyclers are piloting technologies to recover a lot of materials from those batteries,” says Shanika Amarakoon, a researcher at the firm Abt Associates who partnered with the Environmental Protection Agency to write a report on the impacts of lithium-ion batteries in electric cars. A Tesla battery is big—the pack in the Model S tops half a ton, far bigger than anything most e-recycling outfits take—so coming up with an efficient and cost-effective recycling process will take some work, and only a few companies specialize in recycling lithium batteries right now. “The challenge that we have with recycling these rare metals is enormous,” Abraham says, “because the products that we have now use metals in such a small quantity that it’s not economic to recycle.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 4 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: If his job is to stop people using oil, he should shut down all access to his community. He should ensure people do not burn fuel for heating. He should most certainly shut the ski hill - all those people using carbon fibre equipment wearing polar fleece and Gortex made from oil. THAT would be him doing his job from your logic. Did the mayor ask that people consume less oil / oil products or.......... did the mayor ask that oil companies / governments actually set aside more money to compensate those that are negatively affected by oil consumption....... especially dirty oil like Bitumen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 4 hours ago, chilliwiggins said: WALLE While Canadians watch resident Orca's move towards extinction..... At least the Yanks make commitments to save a species.... Canadians only talk the talk... and are afraid to actually protect our species / environment.... https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/washington-governor-inslee-proposes-1-1b-to-help-starving-orcas SHAREADJUSTCOMMENTPRINT OLYMPIA, Wash. — Washington Gov. Jay Inslee is proposing $1.1 billion in spending — and a partial whale-watching ban — to help support the recovery of Puget Sound’s critically endangered orcas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said: While Canadians watch resident Orca's move towards extinction..... At least the Yanks make commitments to save a species.... Canadians only talk the talk... and are afraid to actually protect our species / environment.... https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/washington-governor-inslee-proposes-1-1b-to-help-starving-orcas SHAREADJUSTCOMMENTPRINT OLYMPIA, Wash. — Washington Gov. Jay Inslee is proposing $1.1 billion in spending — and a partial whale-watching ban — to help support the recovery of Puget Sound’s critically endangered orcas. Does stopping .whale watching help? It’s the warmer and polluted waters that are killing the sea life. It’s us, people, and our damage to the environment that’s killing the orca. This idea will only cost money, and accomplish nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Does stopping .whale watching help? It’s the warmer and polluted waters that are killing the sea life. It’s us, people, and our damage to the environment that’s killing the orca. This idea will only cost money, and accomplish nothing. Sorry Alf. Not true. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whale-watching-found-to-stress-out-whales/Whale-Watching Found to Stress Out Whales Although collisions with boats can hurt the animals, researchers are more concerned about effects such as animals failing to feed or using up energy swimming away from the vessels. These seemingly small events can add up, studies suggest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Apparently he has sent out about 17 letters.there is also an energy confrence in whistler they just cancelled cause of how delusional the mayor is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Sorry Alf. Not true. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whale-watching-found-to-stress-out-whales/Whale-Watching Found to Stress Out Whales Although collisions with boats can hurt the animals, researchers are more concerned about effects such as animals failing to feed or using up energy swimming away from the vessels. These seemingly small events can add up, studies suggest It’s a conspiracy King. People watching whales are pros. And are careful. The ocean temperatures are rising, and the Orca’s food is dying. Plus, the water is disgusting. It’s all of us, and not just the whale watches, who are killing the orca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: It’s a conspiracy King. People watching whales are pros. And are careful. The ocean temperatures are rising, and the Orca’s food is dying. Plus, the water is disgusting. It’s all of us, and not just the whale watches, who are killing the orca. I agree with your post in general of course. The near extinction of Chinook salmon is of course the real issue... But i don't think people harassing whales and stressing them out is really of any benefit to the whales either. But of course climate change / ocean temp is probably the real issue. I remember being in the water on G strait as a kid and having Orca's swim out to our boat... Such a beautiful animal. Such a big part of BC and i really hope we can in some way help save them from extinction........ Edited December 14, 2018 by kingofsurrey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Riprock Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 27 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: While Canadians watch resident Orca's move towards extinction..... At least the Yanks make commitments to save a species.... Canadians only talk the talk... and are afraid to actually protect our species / environment.... https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/washington-governor-inslee-proposes-1-1b-to-help-starving-orcas SHAREADJUSTCOMMENTPRINT OLYMPIA, Wash. — Washington Gov. Jay Inslee is proposing $1.1 billion in spending — and a partial whale-watching ban — to help support the recovery of Puget Sound’s critically endangered orcas. Pretty sure those Orcas are choking on Victoria sewage. Just the thought of bitumen is pushing your salmon stocks to the brink. If a tanker ever floats by it's gonna be game over! lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Dash Riprock said: Pretty sure those Orcas are choking on Victoria sewage. Just the thought of bitumen is pushing your salmon stocks to the brink. If a tanker ever floats by it's gonna be game over! lol Great another climate change denier..... awesome . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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