canuktravella Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, riffraff said: Sure about that? I was there in 97 and was paid 12$/hr At that time it was also the easiest welfare system to cheat. i know people that collected from multiple addresses. A party was thrown for a 28 year old guy (at the time) who got a job for the first time in ten years. A huge laugh for all. totally messed up. wellmy exgf in melbourne worked at a deli got 20 ahr worked a weekend nye shift on weekend in melbourne 8 hr shift at 50 a hr so we partied hard i worked in brisbane for 30 a hr for 2 months moving office furniture then beached it for 3 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 7 hours ago, riffraff said: Who do you mean by BC? me? other hardworking families? i respect your efforts with your youth believe me. But I've seen parents living at or below the poverty line and somehow they manage to have cigarettes, phones, iPads, alcohol and a lot of spare time. time for a lot of people to start making better decisions with money, lifestyle choices and family planning. I prefer to live a community that supports each other Remember - those kids are not responsible for their parents poor decisions ..... investing in kids and families is a smart decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 14 hours ago, nucklehead said: why do you think that? because its a good way of helping lower income families and people entering the job market. Where they're done this in other countries its shown to have lowered dependence on social systems, but it also all goes right back into the economy. Cutting taxes is a bit useless for these groups as they aren't making enough for that to really matter, and the effect on prices is never what the doom and gloom scenario's predict. Yes your Tim's might go up 25 cents but the overall effects are very good on an economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 7 hours ago, canuktravella said: wellmy exgf in melbourne worked at a deli got 20 ahr worked a weekend nye shift on weekend in melbourne 8 hr shift at 50 a hr so we partied hard i worked in brisbane for 30 a hr for 2 months moving office furniture then beached it for 3 months Hence why I'd never hire an Aussie worker because I know he/she won't work a full week or longer than a couple months. Basically defines Whistler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: because its a good way of helping lower income families and people entering the job market. Where they're done this in other countries its shown to have lowered dependence on social systems, but it also all goes right back into the economy. Cutting taxes is a bit useless for these groups as they aren't making enough for that to really matter, and the effect on prices is never what the doom and gloom scenario's predict. Yes your Tim's might go up 25 cents but the overall effects are very good on an economy. It only helps if they can get or keep jobs. Since there's a forecast of losing 60K jobs in the country next year as a result of min wage hikes, and since many provinces, like BC, will continue to raise their rates, job losses will likely continue in future years. Losing 60K jobs wipes out about 2 months of job growth, based on good growth over last year. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-canada-minimum-wage-1.4469912 Quote Based on one of the models the bank uses, Canada's economy could have roughly 60,000 fewer jobs by 2019 than it would otherwise have seen. But other models the bank uses show a wider range of results, from as little as 30,000 to as many as 136,000 jobs lost. The Bank of Canada told CBC News in an email Wednesday that the report's views are solely those of the authors and may differ from the bank's official opinion. No matter how the report slices the numbers, however, the result is the same: hiking minimum wages will result in fewer jobs, at least in the short term. "Although empirical evidence is mixed on the magnitude of minimum wage effects, most studies for Canada find that the reduction in employment is statistically significant, especially for younger workers," the bank said in its report. Paradoxically, while minimum wage workers stand to benefit in the form of higher salaries, they could potentially also be hurt as the job market in that sector may dry up, making it harder to get a job if they lose theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: because its a good way of helping lower income families and people entering the job market. The ones that can find work. 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: Where they're done this in other countries its shown to have lowered dependence on social systems, but it also all goes right back into the economy. Cutting taxes is a bit useless for these groups as they aren't making enough for that to really matter, and the effect on prices is never what the doom and gloom scenario's predict. Yes your Tim's might go up 25 cents but the overall effects are very good on an economy. I disagree, consumption is driven by two factors, Service, Quality and Price. Those are the three defining points between competition, either you’re providing better service, or you’re provide the best cost. We are starting to see price become the overall focus in product purchasing. And over the last few years we’ve seeing online shopping become the most desirable choice of purchasing which involves next to no face to face service. History shows that people care more about saving a few bucks than they do about than they do about supporting the locals, that’s why so many mom and pop stores are closing down when big box stores like Wal-Mart come into town. They have such a large purchasing power that they are able become extremely efficient in their business and drop product cost. Because of the volumes they do they are still able to be successful despite very low profit margins, where local stores can’t compete and usually end up closing. Raising the min wage massively hurts the local stores even more as the mom and pop’s don’t have the revenue to keep up with the big box stores and absorbed the hit, they can’t just simply pass the cost on to consumers, as it would turn away even more customers. So that leaves them with cutting hours, removing benefits and finding other ways to keep their bottom line from taking a hit. Remember, not all business owners are millionaires, most are making just enough to get bye. And now with automation, we are seeing less and less jobs enter the market. The big companies have got creative with gov’t issued wage increases. They don’t care about the lives that depend on those jobs, they care about making money. Sure the big companies could absorb the hit, but why would they, when they don’t have to. Why pay an employee 32k a year to do the bare minimum, when they can purchase a system for less and not have to deal with low productivity, showing up late, or turn over. Amazon just opened up a grocery store that has zero cashiers, think about that, and how many jobs have been taken out of the market, not surprising they opened this up in Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Kragar said: It only helps if they can get or keep jobs. Since there's a forecast of losing 60K jobs in the country next year as a result of min wage hikes, and since many provinces, like BC, will continue to raise their rates, job losses will likely continue in future years. Losing 60K jobs wipes out about 2 months of job growth, based on good growth over last year. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-canada-minimum-wage-1.4469912 true, but you have to look past short term projections. The Aussies didn't end up with net job losses (my bro is an employer there, I hear about this a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: true, but you have to look past short term projections. The Aussies didn't end up with net job losses (my bro is an employer there, I hear about this a lot). I'm not saying that there would be a net loss. I'm saying there would be less job growth than there would be without the wage hike. For example, ff you consider the 300K+ growth in jobs last year for Canada, and everything else remains the same, it would only be 240K net new jobs next year, and those jobs would be entry level jobs Since the numbers above look at all jobs, to get a better understanding, we'd need to dive in even deeper, and look at the jobs that are impacted. San Diego's restaurant job growth has suffered over years of CA min wage hikes, and then further struggled with their own, to a point where there was negative job growth for that industry soon after they instituted the city-wide hike. Reports have come out of Seattle that they've done fine with their min wage increase, but those ignore the fact that there is a big demand overall for labor in Seattle which hides impacts of the wage hike. If you look more closely, you'll see jobs or hours cut, price and/or fee increases for many businesses that employ those at minimum wage. Now, paying more isn't always bad. I just noticed a pizza restaurant we go to recently instituted a 50-cent fee per pizza (unsure if it applies to other items or not) to deal with CA wage hikes and other costs of doing business here. Not that big a deal, it's 50 cents on a 10-15 dollar pizza. Then look at a higher-end chain in Seattle who hasn't laid anyone off, but they increased some menu prices, and then added an overall 20% fee on every bill. That adds up! We'll have to see how that holds up after their labor boom mellows out. Other restaurants across the country are starting to put fees in place to cover the added costs of regional wage hikes, and suggest that the fee should replace tipping. This doesn't sound so good for the serving staff, since it effectively forces them to share tips with the kitchen staff, perhaps to a point where they get a lesser share Don't get me wrong... I want to see people earn more. As many have pointed out in these debates, that money often gets pushed back into the system. I just find the drive to classify all jobs as something that should be able to support a family as drastically flawed. And, when the largest faction of min wage earners are teens, the idea that large increases in minimum wage will have some big impact on poverty is equally flawed, because most of these teens aren't living in poverty situations. Taking away introductory or supplemental jobs away from people just looking to earn a little extra, and not trying to support themselves fully is not the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 4 hours ago, riffraff said: Hence why I'd never hire an Aussie worker because I know he/she won't work a full week or longer than a couple months. Basically defines Whistler. if i dont need another knee surgery im moving to whislter next yr hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 What about people who currently get $15? Shouldn't their pay be bumped up to $20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Lancaster said: What about people who currently get $15? Shouldn't their pay be bumped up to $20? Hopefully. That would be great news for our economy and for our society in general. Lets keep our fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Lancaster said: What about people who currently get $15? Shouldn't their pay be bumped up to $20? Fat chance of that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 14 hours ago, riffraff said: Who do you mean by BC? me? other hardworking families? i respect your efforts with your youth believe me. But I've seen parents living at or below the poverty line and somehow they manage to have cigarettes, phones, iPads, alcohol and a lot of spare time. time for a lot of people to start making better decisions with money, lifestyle choices and family planning. This is a perfect example of what's wrong and the thought of "I've seen some people be lazy or make bad spending choices, so it's people's fault they're falling behind in life" is absolute bs. For the love of god (this goes not just to you, but everyone) stop equating your personal experience to that's what it must be like for everyone or at least the vast majority. It's not true and it's disingenuous to say so based on the facts of poverty. I wonder how many multi-millionaires go broke because of bad spending decisions? People who make bad decisions are in every goddamn income bracket, it's not just the "lazy poor". Stop blaming the poor for the situation they are in, I'm sick and bloody tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 15 hours ago, riffraff said: My rates have been more or less the same since 2009......meanwhile....... good thing I'm really good at what I do and work my ass off. The young mom works her ass off at the front till at mcdonalds too..... Sad that she makes so little money she has to coach surf at various friends apartments this month. Sad that her kid is malnurished and now struggling at school to stay awake and learn..... Canada is a rich country. We can afford to have all our kids not under fed and living in poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 6 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: The ones that can find work. I disagree, consumption is driven by two factors, Service, Quality and Price. Those are the three defining points between competition, either you’re providing better service, or you’re provide the best cost. We are starting to see price become the overall focus in product purchasing. And over the last few years we’ve seeing online shopping become the most desirable choice of purchasing which involves next to no face to face service. History shows that people care more about saving a few bucks than they do about than they do about supporting the locals, that’s why so many mom and pop stores are closing down when big box stores like Wal-Mart come into town. They have such a large purchasing power that they are able become extremely efficient in their business and drop product cost. Because of the volumes they do they are still able to be successful despite very low profit margins, where local stores can’t compete and usually end up closing. Raising the min wage massively hurts the local stores even more as the mom and pop’s don’t have the revenue to keep up with the big box stores and absorbed the hit, they can’t just simply pass the cost on to consumers, as it would turn away even more customers. So that leaves them with cutting hours, removing benefits and finding other ways to keep their bottom line from taking a hit. Remember, not all business owners are millionaires, most are making just enough to get bye. And now with automation, we are seeing less and less jobs enter the market. The big companies have got creative with gov’t issued wage increases. They don’t care about the lives that depend on those jobs, they care about making money. Sure the big companies could absorb the hit, but why would they, when they don’t have to. Why pay an employee 32k a year to do the bare minimum, when they can purchase a system for less and not have to deal with low productivity, showing up late, or turn over. Amazon just opened up a grocery store that has zero cashiers, think about that, and how many jobs have been taken out of the market, not surprising they opened this up in Seattle. you can disagree but its worked just fine in Australia, which is about the best compatible country in the world for us to look at benchmarks (small population, similar geographic issues, social safety net, etc). The WalMarts of the world won't ever raise the wages unless forced to, and people are free to unionize if benefits are trimmed too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: you can disagree but its worked just fine in Australia, which is about the best compatible country in the world for us to look at benchmarks (small population, similar geographic issues, social safety net, etc). The WalMarts of the world won't ever raise the wages unless forced to, and people are free to unionize if benefits are trimmed too far. Has it? Australia has more independent contractors than full time unionized employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said: Has it? Australia has more independent contractors than full time unionized employees. it has. My brother owns a food service business there, he's told me that wages are not the issue, its finding the skilled labour in the first place. People adjusted to the slightly higher prices there just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 45 minutes ago, Mattrek said: This is a perfect example of what's wrong and the thought of "I've seen some people be lazy or make bad spending choices, so it's people's fault they're falling behind in life" is absolute bs. For the love of god (this goes not just to you, but everyone) stop equating your personal experience to that's what it must be like for everyone or at least the vast majority. It's not true and it's disingenuous to say so based on the facts of poverty. I wonder how many multi-millionaires go broke because of bad spending decisions? People who make bad decisions are in every goddamn income bracket, it's not just the "lazy poor". Stop blaming the poor for the situation they are in, I'm sick and bloody tired of it. Over react much? I'm not blaming anyone. You're right. Rich people mess up too. I'm just not interested in supporting those that don't support themselves. I have my own mouths to feed. I'm not talking about hardworking poor people. Im not so far removed myself. Most people aren't for that matter. I don't believe that hand outs are the answer. People need to be educated how to handle money. People need education period. That is something that has become for the elite.....certainly in this province and tha effects far more an economic demographic than just the "poor" Education is more of an investment to any child than a handout is. It will Instill confidence and pride in oneself to handle their own lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, riffraff said: Education is more of an investment to any child than a handout is. It will Instill confidence and pride in oneself to handle their own lives. Education without being fed , clothed , and safe sheltered is meaningless.......... because it will NOT be successful. I have too many years in the education business seeing endless kids drop out of school / trades training due to the stresses of poverty...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said: Education without being fed , clothed , and safe sheltered is meaningless.......... because it will NOT be successful. I have too many years in the education business seeing endless kids drop out of school / trades training due to the stresses of poverty...... A fool is soon separated from his money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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