aGENT Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said: 7 years ago when the Canucks had a 12 point cushion on the rest of the league, I was screaming rebuild. Statistically one of the best teams to ever play the game but I knew...I KNEW!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, DeNiro said: The media in this market is to blame. They know that it's easy to stir the pot with so many fairweather fans who don't pay attention to what's actually going on. Pretty sure we have a rookie in the Calder race and a prospect who was just ranked number 1 in the world by TSN. Yet some fans will still complain we're not rebuilding properly. It's laughable. If we're not drafting Matthews or Hischier somehow our rebuild sucks. And yet Toronto is doing a masterful rebuild because they won a draft lottery? Lol. I'm still convinced that most of the "Trolls who cried Waah!" are the worst of the media in disguisio. Trolls who cried waah. We get it. You're miserable negative whiners always looking for a whining point to attack. What else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 The argument that the Canucks avg age isnt low enough is ridiculous. It is obvious the Canucks are trying to get younger when young players are ready to be in the line up. The vets that are in the line up are there to help the younger players become better pros. Each season you will continue to see young players earn there way into the line up, but there will always be vets around to help them out. JB has already shown a number of times that he isnt scared to move vets if that helps the team in the future. But lets just conveniently ignore these facts @TheGuardian_ and continue to cry and whine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 23 minutes ago, DeNiro said: The media in this market is to blame. They know that it's easy to stir the pot with so many fairweather fans who don't pay attention to what's actually going on. Pretty sure we have a rookie in the Calder race and a prospect who was just ranked number 1 in the world by TSN. Yet some fans will still complain we're not rebuilding properly. It's laughable. If we're not drafting Matthews or Hischier somehow our rebuild sucks. And yet Toronto is doing a masterful rebuild because they won a draft lottery? Lol. Add to that the fact that, according to Button, we have 5 of the top 50 prospects in the league (and realistically speaking, it really should have been 6). The trolls like to talk about our average age as well. Take Vanek and the twins out of the equation, as we most likely will over the course of the next year and a half or so, and that average age drops significantly. Add the prospects that will most likely be making the team over the course of that time frame, and the age drops even more. It's a strawman argument that ignores the reality of the situation- That a most of the guys upping our teams average age are either plugs that will be eventually be shipped off for assets down the line (Vanek, Gagne, Del Zotto) or guys that we know damn well are nearing the end of their tenure here (the Sedins). The only older player we're really locked into is Eriksson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 23 minutes ago, Warhippy said: 7 years ago when the Canucks had a 12 point cushion on the rest of the league, I was screaming rebuild. Statistically one of the best teams to ever play the game but I knew...I KNEW!!!!! I bet you that if JB were the one in charge at the time this organization could have been one of those franchises that can sustain itself as a winner for years to come. We all know the Canucks couldnt draft and develop worth a damn during MG's years. However, I think most of us know that there are young impact players on the horizon, and that trend will continue if JB can stay on with the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Well another rich team has basically stated that they are blowing it up. This is from a team in the hunt, only a few points out of a playoffs spot. This is a team that has stated they are trading away veteran players that are and may be still in their prime and wanted. Here is the letter; “As you know, since the 2005-06 season, we have been a highly competitive team. We have played 129 playoff games, won the Presidents’ Trophy, reached the Conference Finals three times, as well as the Stanley Cup Final. While we’re proud of all those accomplishments — we didn’t reach our ultimate foal of bringing the Stanley Cup back to New York. “So as we do every season, we have been continuously evaluating our team, looking for areas that can be improved to enhance our chances of winning. We began the process of reshaping our team this past sumer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come. As we approach the trade deadline later this month and into the summer, we will be focused on adding young, competitive players that combine speed, skill and character. This may mean we lose some familiar faces, guys we all care about and respect. While this is part of the game, it’s never easy. Our promise to you is that our plans will be guided by our singular commitment: ensuring we are building the foundation for our next Stanley Cup contender.” Instead this market gets statements like "It would be unfair to the Sedins to do a rebuild" or "we knew we needed to do a rebuild when we were hired" or out and out lies like, getting the team younger while the team got older and older for 3 years until the 4th year and the only reason the team looks younger now is the number and age of players not playing. Guance and Gagner are out, the team just got older than 4 years ago, Bouchard comes in and now they are close again. Now after all the mixed messages from Benning and Linden a letter like this would be or could hardly be credible. Toronto a few years ago stated something like this, fans accepted and TO is still doing their rebuild, Edmonton, just prior to the purge there and they are still doing theirs as well. What a letter like this is called, is leadership, what this is, is management doing a management job of at least saying their goal is to win a cup, not be just competitive. This is a winning team, with a winning environment with management that realizes they aren't good enough and knows how to do the job. Experienced management people. Blame the owner, not management. And the reason why it's different is because a large portion of Vancouver's fan base are fair weather fans, so in a way I can see why ownership tried to skirt the issue for so long, and still kind of do - I don't agree with it, because I think it just adds to the unfortunate part of Nucks Nation culture, but I can see why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said: The argument that the Canucks avg age isnt low enough is ridiculous. It is obvious the Canucks are trying to get younger when young players are ready to be in the line up. The vets that are in the line up are there to help the younger players become better pros. Each season you will continue to see young players earn there way into the line up, but there will always be vets around to help them out. JB has already shown a number of times that he isnt scared to move vets if that helps the team in the future. But lets just conveniently ignore these facts @TheGuardian_ and continue to cry and whine Also, a lot of the players upping our average age (Vanek, Del Zotto, Gagner) will eventually be shipped out for more assets. But I guess some people don't like free assets.It's almost as though they're rooting for this team to fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said: I bet you that if JB were the one in charge at the time this organization could have been one of those franchises that can sustain itself as a winner for years to come. We all know the Canucks couldnt draft and develop worth a damn during MG's years. However, I think most of us know that there are young impact players on the horizon, and that trend will continue if JB can stay on with the organization. Mmmm see I am unsure about that. The issue is we really hadn't had a decent draft since 05 (?) and only a few players here and there to supplement like Raymond etc. It was one of those all in scenarios for Gillis and I am unsure that benning could ahve done better. I will say that had we had Benning as co gm or head scout it is hard to believe our drafting wouldn't have been better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 A letter from Canucks management same as NYR is not necessary. The Canucks fans know that the management talking rebuild for many years. We don't need that letter if the rebuilding is being processed. We don't need that letter if the rebuilding is just a talk, not action. To me, Canucks has made rebuilding, we have lot of good prospects in pool. We just need Sedins retire after this season, the average age, the speed, the physical will be totally different. Now the management need trade Edler, Loui, and make sure Sedins retired only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Mmmm see I am unsure about that. The issue is we really hadn't had a decent draft since 05 (?) and only a few players here and there to supplement like Raymond etc. It was one of those all in scenarios for Gillis and I am unsure that benning could ahve done better. I do believe that once the Canucks get better, even if they become a 'contender' JB will not be an all in type of GM like MG was. He will continue to draft and develop well so the franchise always has a strong base of younger players ready to step in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said: The argument that the Canucks avg age isnt low enough is ridiculous. It is obvious the Canucks are trying to get younger when young players are ready to be in the line up. The vets that are in the line up are there to help the younger players become better pros. Each season you will continue to see young players earn there way into the line up, but there will always be vets around to help them out. JB has already shown a number of times that he isnt scared to move vets if that helps the team in the future. But lets just conveniently ignore these facts @TheGuardian_ and continue to cry and whine Average age indicates youth in most worlds, it doesn't mean good though. Line one says when younger player are ready then, line 2 says the vets are there for the young players, back to line one - when they get ready? Line 3 says each year, so far 2 and one almost, this is year four, it seems there are a couple missing? JB would not move Miller, Vrbata, or Hamhuis to help the team. Goldoblin is a crap shoot so far and may end up in Russia before the end of the season. What constitutes a "better player"? Vrbata, Miller, Eriksson, Vanek, Gagner, DelZotto, Nillson, represent FA's signed, who did they help? They all hang out with the young guys on the road or at home? You cannot say Granlund, Baertschi ,Vey or Etem, all these guys are multi year vets with NHL games under their belt. Why sign all these above named veteran guys? Would not Richardson been a good vet? Mathias?or Even Bonino? I get the Miller idea for a playoff push. Unless the team isn't rebuilding. So the rest were signed to train Horvat for 1/2 a year. In what universe is there enough room for your beloved vets and prospects and what time line? If it took 5 years to get Horvat and Boeser, how much longer for the other 4? 15 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, TheGuardian_ said: Average age indicates youth in most worlds, it doesn't mean good though. Line one says when younger player are ready then, line 2 says the vets are there for the young players, back to line one - when they get ready? Line 3 says each year, so far 2 and one almost, this is year four, it seems there are a couple missing? JB would not move Miller, Vrbata, or Hamhuis to help the team. Goldoblin is a crap shoot so far and may end up in Russia before the end of the season. What constitutes a "better player"? Vrbata, Miller, Eriksson, Vanek, Gagner, DelZotto, Nillson, represent FA's signed, who did they help? They all hang out with the young guys on the road or at home? You cannot say Granlund, Baertschi ,Vey or Etem, all these guys are multi year vets with NHL games under their belt. Why sign all these above named veteran guys? Would not Richardson been a good vet? Mathias?or Even Bonino? I get the Miller idea for a playoff push. Unless the team isn't rebuilding. So the rest were signed to train Horvat for 1/2 a year. In what universe is there enough room for your beloved vets and prospects and what time line? If it took 5 years to get Horvat and Boeser, how much longer for the other 4? 15 years? Explain why those 3 pieces didn't get moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Seriously, this is why the neg should be back. It's just a constant stream of: One can hardly keep up with the moving goal posts to suit a narrative, the cognitive dissonance, the red herrings on all manner of off tangent counter arguments etc but people neg'd him because they're bullies....uhuh... ...then add completely ignoring facts that multiple posters have brought up in multiple threads in multiple years. CDC, you been trolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Warhippy said: No... because the writing is on the wall and we're already in our final rock bottom year. Any statement of the sort would be derided by fans and ugly media in Vancouver alike No kidding.. so what they write a nice letter because they are shopping Nash, who's production is a little worse than Burrows was at the same age. Who do we have to shop anyways? Edler and Tanev are all that's left ....it's not like Nash was drafted by the NYR and played his entire career there either. Fluff piece to let the fans know they plan to trade Nash, maybe to Nashville, not sure how thats relevant to Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Line one says when younger player are ready then, line 2 says the vets are there for the young players, back to line one - when they get ready? I cant believe I have to spell this out for you. Look at Goldobin, or Boucher. Are these guys ready to be full time NHL players that can help their team? Look at Horvat/Boeser/Granlund etc. These guys are ready to go. If for example Gaudette, Pettersson are ready to go they WILL be in the line up. 14 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: JB would not move Miller, Vrbata, or Hamhuis to help the team. Would not or could not? Part of being a GM is expecting fair value back in a trade e.g. Hamhuis and rumours of DAL low balling the team. You have to look no further than Burrows or Hansen. 14 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: What constitutes a "better player"? Vrbata, Miller, Eriksson, Vanek, Gagner, DelZotto, Nillson, represent FA's signed, who did they help? So ignoring the fact that some of these are also depth players, you seriously think that Miller and Vanek for example have had no impact on the younger players like Markstrom or Boeser? 14 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: So the rest were signed to train Horvat for 1/2 a year. you dont get it 14 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: n what universe is there enough room for your beloved vets and prospects and what time line? If it took 5 years to get Horvat and Boeser, how much longer for the other 4? 15 years? Dont know why people like you are so ancy all the time. Guess what, it takes time to become an elite athlete at the professional level. Not all young people are the same interms of how long it will take them to develop, and thats assuming they have more to give. All you have to do is listen to TG to realize just how difficult it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Add to that the fact that, according to Button, we have 5 of the top 50 prospects in the league (and realistically speaking, it really should have been 6). The trolls like to talk about our average age as well. Take Vanek and the twins out of the equation, as we most likely will over the course of the next year and a half or so, and that average age drops significantly. Add the prospects that will most likely be making the team over the course of that time frame, and the age drops even more. It's a strawman argument that ignores the reality of the situation- That a most of the guys upping our teams average age are either plugs that will be eventually be shipped off for assets down the line (Vanek, Gagne, Del Zotto) or guys that we know damn well are nearing the end of their tenure here (the Sedins). The only older player we're really locked into is Eriksson. Average age. I'd bet if we had the 2002 Detroit team we wouldnt he crying about average age (33 I think, oldest team to win the cup). Who cares, our team is getting younger organically, I'm sure once our guys our ready they will get slotted in. We only have four NTC/NMC left and three of them will be over before we know it, and by that time the last one will become a possibility. In truth this already is a young team. But the complainers will... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, IBatch said: No kidding.. so what they write a nice letter because they are shopping Nash, who's production is a little worse than Burrows was at the same age. Who do we have to shop anyways? Edler and Tanev are all that's left ....it's not like Nash was drafted by the NYR and played his entire career there either. Fluff piece to let the fans know they plan to trade Nash, maybe to Nashville, not sure how thats relevant to Vancouver. If they wrote a letter like that they'd be panned league wide and laughed at. Skeletor, Patterson, Botchford TMZ 1040 TSN all of them would question wtf the point was. Duh yer rebuilding we know. We still don't get why you signed all those trade friendly contracts but duh,it's insulting to us and the fans to write a fluff letter jeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Warhippy said: No... because the writing is on the wall and we're already in our final rock bottom year. Any statement of the sort would be derided by fans and ugly media in Vancouver alike and even that is only because of catastrophic injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said: I cant believe I have to spell this out for you. Look at Goldobin, or Boucher. Are these guys ready to be full time NHL players that can help their team? Look at Horvat/Boeser/Granlund etc. These guys are ready to go. If for example Gaudette, Pettersson are ready to go they WILL be in the line up. Goldoblin maybe a prospect as he only is a 3rd year pro with only 35 NHL games, no way Boucher, he is a 5 year pro with over 100 NHL games. The context here being Miller Vrbata and Eriksson were signed to help the prospects. 10 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said: Would not or could not? Part of being a GM is expecting fair value back in a trade e.g. Hamhuis and rumours of DAL low balling the team. You have to look no further than Burrows or Hansen So who will do business with him now? He won't negotiate so just go somewhere else. He would rather take nothing than negotiate. Seems you forgot Chicago as well and Calgary didn't mind getting something in their trade for a player they were getting nothing for in 8 weeks. 12 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said: So ignoring the fact that some of these are also depth players, you seriously think that Miller and Vanek for example have had no impact on the younger players like Markstrom or Boeser? So who gets removed from the team IF there is a prospect good enough to make the team? Markstrom? you really are off there, he is hardly young. 27 may be young to me but as a player, not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: So who gets removed from the team IF there is a prospect good enough to make the team? Not up to me. This just shows your lack of understanding and why age is also relative. I shouldnt have to spell it out to you that Markstrom was working his way into the league behind Miller. 8 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: no way Boucher, he is a 5 year pro with over 100 NHL games. The context here being Miller Vrbata and Eriksson were signed to help the prospects. See above. If you think there is nothing to learn from the AHL to the NHL..........well then. 9 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: So who will do business with him now? He won't negotiate so just go somewhere else. He would rather take nothing than negotiate. Seems you forgot Chicago as well and Calgary didn't mind getting something in their trade for a player they were getting nothing for in 8 weeks. lmao I really hope you are referring to Russel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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