dougieL Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 This is my first post, but I've been watching the Canucks for longer than I care to say. I remember how excited I was about the twins when they were rookies. Amazingly, they exceeded *all* of my expectations for them. I don't need to tell anyone here what an incredible joy it was to watch them night in night out in their prime. They were truly unique players the likes of which I doubt the league will ever see again. While it is hard to believe, they might have been better off the ice in the community. But...and there had to be a but in here somewhere. The Canucks as an organization owe the Sedins *nothing*. They have been paid handsomely for their services. They, their kids, and their kids' kids won't have to ever worry about finances. You could argue they were a little underpaid during the 30.5 million 5 year contract, but that is being made up for in spades right now, as they are nowhere close to being worth 7 million. In their prime years, they were surrounded with the right players to have a shot at the Cup. They were one game away from winning it. They had their chance. They didn't capitalize. That is unfortunate for them, and for all of us. So I don't get this narrative that we owe it to them to keep this team competitive, or that it wouldn't be fair to them to go through a rebuild. Look at who the team has recruited for the specific purpose of playing with the Sedin's - Vrbata, Eriksson, Vanek. I'm not saying all these players were bad signings, or that they all took roster spots and playing time away from developing players (though I would argue that's what Eriksson and Vanek are doing), but these signings demonstrate the deference of the team to the Sedins. This deference has cost us years of a rebuild. Benning is no idiot. There is no doubt in my mind that he knows how a rebuild should be done. Loyalty to the Sedins has prevented him from fully executing his vision. This absolutely unacceptable. Let me repeat - the team owes the Sedins exactly nothing. It owes it to its *fans* to execute the rebuild the right way; fans that have stayed loyal to this team through the periods of misery and perpetual mediocrity; fans who make fractions of what the Sedins make but pay significant amounts of money from those comparatively measly paychecks to support the team so that the team can pay its players staggering amounts of money (no complaints here - the players are paid exactly what they're worth). This deference to the Sedins has gone too far. It has hurt the team too much. It has to stop. But it won't stop. They had one good game versus the Sharks, and now some are saying that they still have it and should come back for one more year (have you forgotten the lazy line changes, fly by's, back checks, and overall indifferent play the last three or so years??). Their linemate was Vanek. Who here thinks the team will let him go now that it appears he clicks with the Sedins? Don't raise the example of Burrows - we all know that by the time he was traded, he was no longer a viable linemate for the Sedins. Vanek has value. Whether it be a second round pick or a fourth round pick. We need these picks. Gaudette was a fifth round pick. Any chance we have to improve the future of this team, we need to take it. But I'm betting it won't happen. And it's sad that our fan base has to suffer just because some in the organization feel the Sedins are somehow owed something they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 This is hugely opinion based and not fact. Their contract is up this year, did you not expect them to play out their contract? Even though you're in a rebuild you still need to try to ice a competitive team. Management and the Sedins both know their time is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogersTowell Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 These dozens of posts on the same topic are absurd and harmful to our mental health and they have to stop! Try using the search function or even looking through the first page of two of threads to find about 10 other threads with a similar topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieBush Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 They will come back. No bother suggesting otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, dougieL said: This is my first post, but I've been watching the Canucks for longer than I care to say. I remember how excited I was about the twins when they were rookies. Amazingly, they exceeded *all* of my expectations for them. I don't need to tell anyone here what an incredible joy it was to watch them night in night out in their prime. They were truly unique players the likes of which I doubt the league will ever see again. While it is hard to believe, they might have been better off the ice in the community. But...and there had to be a but in here somewhere. The Canucks as an organization owe the Sedins *nothing*. They have been paid handsomely for their services. They, their kids, and their kids' kids won't have to ever worry about finances. You could argue they were a little underpaid during the 30.5 million 5 year contract, but that is being made up for in spades right now, as they are nowhere close to being worth 7 million. In their prime years, they were surrounded with the right players to have a shot at the Cup. They were one game away from winning it. They had their chance. They didn't capitalize. That is unfortunate for them, and for all of us. So I don't get this narrative that we owe it to them to keep this team competitive, or that it wouldn't be fair to them to go through a rebuild. Look at who the team has recruited for the specific purpose of playing with the Sedin's - Vrbata, Eriksson, Vanek. I'm not saying all these players were bad signings, or that they all took roster spots and playing time away from developing players (though I would argue that's what Eriksson and Vanek are doing), but these signings demonstrate the deference of the team to the Sedins. This deference has cost us years of a rebuild. Benning is no idiot. There is no doubt in my mind that he knows how a rebuild should be done. Loyalty to the Sedins has prevented him from fully executing his vision. This absolutely unacceptable. Let me repeat - the team owes the Sedins exactly nothing. It owes it to its *fans* to execute the rebuild the right way; fans that have stayed loyal to this team through the periods of misery and perpetual mediocrity; fans who make fractions of what the Sedins make but pay significant amounts of money from those comparatively measly paychecks to support the team so that the team can pay its players staggering amounts of money (no complaints here - the players are paid exactly what they're worth). This deference to the Sedins has gone too far. It has hurt the team too much. It has to stop. But it won't stop. They had one good game versus the Sharks, and now some are saying that they still have it and should come back for one more year (have you forgotten the lazy line changes, fly by's, back checks, and overall indifferent play the last three or so years??). Their linemate was Vanek. Who here thinks the team will let him go now that it appears he clicks with the Sedins? Don't raise the example of Burrows - we all know that by the time he was traded, he was no longer a viable linemate for the Sedins. Vanek has value. Whether it be a second round pick or a fourth round pick. We need these picks. Gaudette was a fifth round pick. Any chance we have to improve the future of this team, we need to take it. But I'm betting it won't happen. And it's sad that our fan base has to suffer just because some in the organization feel the Sedins are somehow owed something they are not. why so emotive and if the sedins are not here who will take their roster spots you want to see more of gagner or his ilk or would you rather clog the roster with better players who will then block our upcoming youth the sedins are fine place holders they are talented but declining players they are emotionally connected to the fan base are really decent individuals and seem content to operate on 1 year contracts moving forward seems like a pretty good arrangement for all concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Obviously the rest of CDC is going to crap on you for this post, but you're absolutely right. Resigning them just puts things on hold for another year (or, God forbid, two). It's time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I think if Benning/TG has a say, they will be gone. If they stay, then Linden is steering this ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 47 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said: This is hugely opinion based and not fact. Their contract is up this year, did you not expect them to play out their contract? Even though you're in a rebuild you still need to try to ice a competitive team. Management and the Sedins both know their time is up. Nowhere did I say I want them to quit. I'm saying the team's deference to them has to stop. And why do you think management and the Sedins both know their time is up? This is hugely opinion-based and not fact. Linden has said it is up to them. They have not decided yet. If both knew their time was up, the signs would be clear. And again, this isn't even close to the point that I was driving at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 48 minutes ago, RogersTowell said: These dozens of posts on the same topic are absurd and harmful to our mental health and they have to stop! Try using the search function or even looking through the first page of two of threads to find about 10 other threads with a similar topic. Its a good post. You don't have to waste your precious time reading nor complaining. In fact we do not have enough new posts started anymore because of the whiners at CDC. So try using the mind your own feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins. Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each. They are good placeholders for the prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins. Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each. They are good placeholders for the prospects. oh no not again you went off your meds i fear alf agreeing with me on anything surely is a sign if that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins. Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each. They are good placeholders for the prospects. I very much disagree with this view, but understand where you're coming from. To me, given their overall play and contribution to our team (their plus/minus is staggeringly bad given that they are basically top 5 in the league in offensive zone starts), I wouldn't want them back for more than 2 million each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, dougieL said: Vrbata, Eriksson, Vanek. ... but these signings demonstrate the deference of the team to the Sedins. This deference has cost us years of a rebuild. Benning is no idiot. There is no doubt in my mind that he knows how a rebuild should be done. Loyalty to the Sedins has prevented him from fully executing his vision. This absolutely unacceptable. ... Any chance we have to improve the future of this team, we need to take it. But I'm betting it won't happen. And it's sad that our fan base has to suffer just because some in the organization feel the Sedins are somehow owed something they are not. I get your frustrations, but you are underestimating the benefit that our young guys get from playing WITH NHL professionals who have had a successful career. You need to look at it as an asset that was acquired for nothing (free agency). Here is a list of fringe NHLers who may belong in the AHL on most of the other organizations that have played for the Canucks this year: Goldobin, Gaunce, Boucher, Archibald, Dowd, Chaput, Megna. That's 7 players that would hardly get any ice time on a contending team. We need to improve our team through free agency, and we're in a desperate need of good forwards. I will gladly take another Vanek-type next year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 44 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Obviously the rest of CDC is going to crap on you for this post, but you're absolutely right. Resigning them just puts things on hold for another year (or, God forbid, two). It's time to move on. I'd usually disagree with this, however looking at it from the Sedins' point of view, I think it might be to move on as well unless we hit a homerun in free agency this summer. They've given their all, and have put up with enough crap years here over the last four years. If we're not a playoff team next year, with them filling in the third line next year, it's best to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, dougieL said: I very much disagree with this view, but understand where you're coming from. To me, given their overall play and contribution to our team (their plus/minus is staggeringly bad given that they are basically top 5 in the league in offensive zone starts), I wouldn't want them back for more than 2 million each. If they do come back, i think it won’t be for less than 5 each. Who takes their minutes? Maybe if Pettersson and Dhalen are ready they could play those minutes? I’d like to see us get Pettersson and Dhalen over here playing for us ASAP, so we know what those two can handle. I still think one more year for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 47 minutes ago, coastal.view said: why so emotive and if the sedins are not here who will take their roster spots you want to see more of gagner or his ilk or would you rather clog the roster with better players who will then block our upcoming youth the sedins are fine place holders they are talented but declining players they are emotionally connected to the fan base are really decent individuals and seem content to operate on 1 year contracts moving forward seems like a pretty good arrangement for all concerned I would rather see faster and tougher players in their spots. The game is too fast for them now. Can you name one other player who is as skinny and slow as they are? All players who are as slow as the Sedins are huge (Kopitar, Brown, Getzlaf, Perry). I suspect their slow play is quite disruptive to the rhythm of our faster players like Virtanen. Consideration for emotional connection and decency of character of 37 year old players should be far down on the priority list when it comes to rebuild. We need to do what's best for the future of this team. Plain and simple - the Sedins are holding this team back both on the ice and off the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, dougieL said: I would rather see faster and tougher players in their spots. The game is too fast for them now. Can you name one other player who is as skinny and slow as they are? All players who are as slow as the Sedins are huge (Kopitar, Brown, Getzlaf, Perry). I suspect their slow play is quite disruptive to the rhythm of our faster players like Virtanen. Consideration for emotional connection and decency of character of 37 year old players should be far down on the priority list when it comes to rebuild. We need to do what's best for the future of this team. Plain and simple - the Sedins are holding this team back both on the ice and off the ice. no i won't respond to your straw man scenarios if you wish to narrow the assessment of certain players by specific values you define well then you can just predict the outcome you don't need my commentary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Do it Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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