this deference to the Sedins is absurd and harmful - it has to stop

[dougieL]

4 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I get your frustrations, but you are underestimating the benefit that our young guys get from playing WITH NHL professionals who have had a successful career. 

 

You need to look at it as an asset that was acquired for nothing (free agency).  

 

Here is a list of fringe NHLers who may belong in the AHL on most of the other organizations that have played for the Canucks this year: Goldobin, Gaunce, Boucher, Archibald, Dowd, Chaput, Megna.  

 

That's 7 players that would hardly get any ice time on a contending team.  

 

We need to improve our team through free agency, and we're in a desperate need of good forwards.  I will gladly take another Vanek-type next year as well.

I feel like their mentoring is emphasized way too much. The leadership role can belong to Horvat now (and less so, Eriksson, since he does so little else). And I don't like where their leadership has taken this team - we are soft and easy to play against. The players we bring in to play with them are also in this mold. We need to move on from them and these types of players.

[EdgarM]

4 minutes ago, dougieL said:

I feel like their mentoring is emphasized way too much. The leadership role can belong to Horvat now (and less so, Eriksson, since he does so little else). And I don't like where their leadership has taken this team - we are soft and easy to play against. The players we bring in to play with them are also in this mold. We need to move on from them and these types of players.

"we are soft and easy to play against" 

This cannot be forgotten in all of this banter. We need to move on from this above anything else.

[Jester13]

They are in their final year of their contract. No one knows what they will do.

 

0-1

[rekker]

I lean towards embracing the thought of them retiring. But I don't see the depth on our top 9 to say they need to retire. If they are pushed out so be it. But highly doubt EP or Dahlin are ready. They need AHL seasoning sprinkled with callups. 

[MJDDawg]

Just loving the crowd in Vegas.

 

Great game going on with the Habs vs Knights...oh wait...what...oh I thought I was in an Around the NHL thread.

 

These Sedin threads are too easy click on by accident. 

[The Lock]

Oh great. Another Sedins thread.....

 

Can we just have one of these? I know people want their opinion heard but this is getting a little overboard is it not?

[spur1]

Earlier in the year I voted for another year. 

As the year goes on I think it is time. 

[VegasCanuck]

52 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins.  Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each.  They are good placeholders for the prospects.  

And, good influence on prospects. No one trains as hard as these guys, they are always professional and awesome mentors on what it takes to be an NHL player.

 

I’m hoping for closer to 4 million each, though 

[EdgarM]

 

The Sedins will be 38 years old next year. Anyone else think its time? 

 

[NHL'er]

 

[luckylager]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins.  Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each.  They are good placeholders for the prospects.  

$5m! Alf, you are so damn frustrating sometimes.

 

That's $10m you want to tie up in the Sedin's.

 

$10m!? What in the actual &^@#, Alf.

[Hairy Kneel]

We could use that money to sign Guddy.

[dougieL]

34 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

And, good influence on prospects. No one trains as hard as these guys, they are always professional and awesome mentors on what it takes to be an NHL player.

 

I’m hoping for closer to 4 million each, though 

Is there actual evidence that they will be a good influence on the young players? They may have been a good influence on Horvat, but that is now in the past. Can they provide things that Horvat and Sutter cannot? I cannot comment on off-the-ice issues, but their play on the ice is indifferent, and at times, horrendous. There is nothing they do on the ice, whether it be displaying guts, sticking up for their teammates, or working hard on defense, that young players can learn from. On the ice, I think they are a detriment to the team in many regards.

[dougieL]

41 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Oh great. Another Sedins thread.....

 

Can we just have one of these? I know people want their opinion heard but this is getting a little overboard is it not?

I feel it was an important thread dedicated to, not just whether people want the Sedins back next year, or whether they are contributing to our team right now, but how they are having a detrimental effect on our management direction and on the culture of this team. I haven't seen it stated that the team owes them nothing, and that it is the fans to whom the team owes a proper rebuild. 

[spur1]

They have their one thousand points.

Time to ride off into the sunset and into the hall of fame. 

Hopefully they can be part of the organization in some other way. 

[dougieL]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

If they do come back, i think it won’t be for less than 5 each.  Who takes their minutes?  Maybe if Pettersson and Dhalen are ready they could play those minutes?  I’d like to see us get Pettersson and Dhalen over here playing for us ASAP, so we know what those two can handle.  I still think one more year for sure.

It's not just minutes they take up, but it's offensive zone starts. Why not give those opportunities for players that need to develop their offensive skills? Why not give Virtanen a couple of extra minutes a game? The valuable minutes they take up not only hinder development of players, but it hinders the team's ability to assess their young players. And I can't stress enough how frustrated I get with their lack of speed, grit, and effort. It is hard to imagine that this doesn't get filtered down through the rest of the team and to the young players.

[dougieL]

Forgive me if this has been stated before, but to the best of my knowledge it hasn't (except in my other post which was locked - perhaps rightfully so; however, I still think this is pertinent to the current discussion):

 

They owe this team what the team gave to them when they were young. When the media was all over them for being knocked down all the time, who came to their defense? Their teammates, their captain, their coach, and their GM. Do they have the backs of the younger players in the same way? Have they ever come out and said Virtanen needs our patience? That he has a unique skill set that very few players, especially themselves, have? Do they say that he brings guts and grit and speed that they don't certainly don't bring? No. Instead, they criticize him for a bad hit when he got suspended for hitting Roman Polak. And a year ago, when they were asked why they don't play the same way as they did in the primes, they said it was because our current defensemen weren't as good at moving the puck as the ones they played with back then. Are they flipping serious? Of all the generic, bland, meaningless Sedin-ish answers they could have come up with, like those spouted after every listless loss, that was the answer they gave? I don't care what they say behind closed doors, but to the media, YOU SUPPORT YOUR TEAMMATES AND YOUR YOUNG PLAYERS THE WAY YOU WERE SUPPORTED WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG.

[gregthehockeynut]

  I think the Sedins have genuinely made a conscious effort to play harder on D late in their careers, unfortunately they have slowed so much many plays are impossible for them. I would think they would find it embarrassing at some point. It certainly is hard to watch. I have huge respect for Henrik in particular for his ironman streak and being perhaps the third best playmaker of all time. It's time to ride off into the sunset with some dignity intact.

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I agree with @coastal.view on the Twins.  Sign them to a one year deal for (likely) 5 million each.  They are good placeholders for the prospects.  

Meh I think given the Sedins quality of minutes Gaudette, Elias, Dahlen, Goldy, could manage 50pts a piece maybe even Boucher and at least Greener could staple em to the bench if they aren't back checking. The Sedins are on pace to be -minus 25 a piece given straight O zone starts and PP. 

[captaincowbasher]

3 hours ago, dougieL said:

This is my first post, but I've been watching the Canucks for longer than I care to say. I remember how excited I was about the twins when they were rookies. Amazingly, they exceeded *all* of my expectations for them. I don't need to tell anyone here what an incredible joy it was to watch them night in night out in their prime. They were truly unique players the likes of which I doubt the league will ever see again. While it is hard to believe, they might have been better off the ice in the community.

 

But...and there had to be a but in here somewhere. The Canucks as an organization owe the Sedins *nothing*. They have been paid handsomely for their services. They, their kids, and their kids' kids won't have to ever worry about finances. You could argue they were a little underpaid during the 30.5 million 5 year contract, but that is being made up for in spades right now, as they are nowhere close to being worth 7 million. In their prime years, they were surrounded with the right players to have a shot at the Cup. They were one game away from winning it. They had their chance. They didn't capitalize. That is unfortunate for them, and for all of us.

 

So I don't get this narrative that we owe it to them to keep this team competitive, or that it wouldn't be fair to them to go through a rebuild. Look at who the team has recruited for the specific purpose of playing with the Sedin's - Vrbata, Eriksson, Vanek. I'm not saying all these players were bad signings, or that they all took roster spots and playing time away from developing players (though I would argue that's what Eriksson and Vanek are doing), but these signings demonstrate the deference of the team to the Sedins.

 

This deference has cost us years of a rebuild. Benning is no idiot. There is no doubt in my mind that he knows how a rebuild should be done. Loyalty to the Sedins has prevented him from fully executing his vision. This absolutely unacceptable. Let me repeat - the team owes the Sedins exactly nothing. It owes it to its *fans* to execute the rebuild the right way; fans that have stayed loyal to this team through the periods of misery and perpetual mediocrity; fans who make fractions of what the Sedins make but pay significant amounts of money from those comparatively measly paychecks to support the team so that the team can pay its players staggering amounts of money (no complaints here - the players are paid exactly what they're worth). This deference to the Sedins has gone too far. It has hurt the team too much. It has to stop.

 

But it won't stop. They had one good game versus the Sharks, and now some are saying that they still have it and should come back for one more year (have you forgotten the lazy line changes, fly by's, back checks, and overall indifferent play the last three or so years??). Their linemate was Vanek. Who here thinks the team will let him go now that it appears he clicks with the Sedins? Don't raise the example of Burrows - we all know that by the time he was traded, he was no longer a viable linemate for the Sedins. Vanek has value. Whether it be a second round pick or a fourth round pick. We need these picks. Gaudette was a fifth round pick. Any chance we have to improve the future of this team, we need to take it. But I'm betting it won't happen. And it's sad that our fan base has to suffer just because some in the organization feel the Sedins are somehow owed something they are not.

You are 100% correct, great post!