JM_ Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, aGENT said: Yes well, sarcasm noted but people who look at corsi and hero charts etc without context are... angry. Very very angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 59 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: angry. Very very angry. Sadly, pathetically confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Rush17 said: Is it me.. or does Gudbranson look unimpressed at Marky's shower lol. oh hes talking to Kenward lol I think he's less impressed when Markstrom $&!#s the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo0921 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Guddy is such an enigma to me. On the one hand, I see him as a physical, tough defender, capable of handing out punishing hits and making life difficult for opposing forwards. Also, one cannot discount his willingness to defend teammates. His game also fits playoff-style hockey, which is a style we will be needing in a couple seasons. On the other hand, he's looked, totally, uncomfortable. Our dcore seems to be in a state of confusion, with no clear direction or identity. They're not terribly offensive, their defensive capabilities are lacking, they're on the smallish side, and lack physicality and grit. I, for one, have no idea what the plan is for our defense and believe they must first determine what persona they want our dcore to possess. In other threads, I've offered ideas to replace our existing blue-line with bigger, more physical defenders. No one superstar, instead, opting for a, win by committee strategy. On this type of blue-line, Guddy thrives. As of right now, however, I don't see the fit and look more toward dealing him. On the right defense, I could see him worth 5x3.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodycanuckleheads Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I see a lot of people in this thread ignoring the analytics (and implying that Gudbranson faces really stiff competition or makes others on our team better), so I'll just leave this here...: Quote It really can’t be overstated how difficult it is to make a statistical case that paints Gudbranson in a positive light. There are few regular NHL defenders since Gudbranson entered the league that have posted worse underlying shot metrics. We’re talking bottom-20 in almost every category among defenders with over 4000 minutes since his inaugural season. Over six seasons, Gudbranson has only posted a shot share above 50% once, and he’s been trending downward since 2013. Adjusting for the score, venue, excluding blocked shots, and accounting for competition did nothing to improve his numbers or provide anything in the way of absolution. I know this is well-trodden ground by this point, but there just isn’t any statistic that shines a positive light on Gudbranson. Hits aren’t a particularly useful stat, but you’d expect a player with Gudbranson to at least rack up a lot of them. But his 2.4 per game don’t even lead a Canucks team that’s consistently described as soft. Alex Biega and Michael Del Zotto have more per game at 3.3 and 2.7 respectively, and Alex Edler is only slightly behind at 2.2. I’m not one to put much stock in laying hits, but it seems curious to me that a big, mean, tough defender should be contributing physically at roughly the same level as Edler. Even if you’re a crank who thinks that defenders with extremely poor shot metrics can still end up with positive goal-differential by affecting their goalie’s save percentage, Gudbranson still doesn’t pass the sniff test. He’s carried a career goals-for percentage of just under 43%, without consistently facing fierce competition. Now obviously, if you try hard enough, you could try to defend these numbers. They weren’t great in Florida and have absolutely plummeted since coming to Vancouver, but maybe he just hasn’t been a fit. Perhaps he’s been saddled with partners that don’t work in a system that doesn’t allow him to play his game. But even if that’s the case, he’s 26, and it’s his job to prove he can be effective. He hasn’t. It’s generally not advisable to sign a player who has never shown he can be solvent at even strength, and at any rate if you find yourself consistently having to twist yourself into knots trying to defend a player you might just have to step back and consider that he isn’t that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 14 hours ago, aGENT said: Trade Tanev for a tidy return, re-sign Guddy and see if wet can't maybe nab Mike Green short term as a UFA this summer. Suddenly we have the offensive PMD everyone's been clamoring for AND some muscle. Interesting... 4 x 4.25M with no clauses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 11 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: I see a lot of people in this thread ignoring the analytics (and implying that Gudbranson faces really stiff competition or makes others on our team better), so I'll just leave this here...: that analysis missed the main point, with guys like Gudrandson and Arch the team has the confidence to play a bigger and tougher game. What do you think Saturday night against Boston would have looked like without Gudbranson? I couldn't care less what his shot metrics are if the team plays with more confidence and we get the win, thats the stat that matters most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodycanuckleheads Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: that analysis missed the main point, with guys like Gudrandson and Arch the team has the confidence to play a bigger and tougher game. If that were true, then the analytics would show those benefits. Because, we'd be scoring more goals and/or having less scored on us. But, that's not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Advanced stats have their (limited and in context) value but hockey isn't played on a pie chart. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 31 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: that analysis missed the main point, with guys like Gudrandson and Arch the team has the confidence to play a bigger and tougher game. What do you think Saturday night against Boston would have looked like without Gudbranson? I couldn't care less what his shot metrics are if the team plays with more confidence and we get the win, thats the stat that matters most. and the point you’re missing is what is that stat worth in contract value. If that’s the most important stat guddy brings well Archie carries a cap of 650k. Pedan will be a waiver claim next year and he’ll be under 950k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: that analysis missed the main point, with guys like Gudrandson and Arch the team has the confidence to play a bigger and tougher game. What do you think Saturday night against Boston would have looked like without Gudbranson? I couldn't care less what his shot metrics are if the team plays with more confidence and we get the win, thats the stat that matters most. As soon as I saw that the link was to a Canucks Army article, I realized that the post wasn't worth checking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: As soon as I saw that the link was to a Canucks Army article, I realized that the post wasn't worth checking out. They need to change their name from Canucks army to antibenninglynchmob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodycanuckleheads Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: Advanced stats have their (limited and in context) value but hockey isn't played on a pie chart. End of story. They used to say that about analytics in baseball too - now, if anyone says that, they consider that person an utter fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, riffraff said: They need to change their name from Canucks army to antibenninglynchmob. Gotta throw PIECHARTS!!!! ...in there somewhere too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, riffraff said: They need to change their name from Canucks army to antibenninglynchmob. Yeah. They're bugs. Ain't no live and let live with bugs, riff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, bloodycanuckleheads said: They used to say that about analytics in baseball too - now, if anyone says that, they consider that person an utter fool. You can't seriously know anything about analytics and think the two sports are remotely comparable in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adarsh Sant Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, Adarsh Sant said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, aGENT said: Advanced stats have their (limited and in context) value but hockey isn't played on a pie chart. End of story. Moneyball changed MLB, I guess the hockey if just right, right? Who needs stats eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, TheGuardian_ said: Moneyball changed MLB, I guess the hockey if just right, right? Who needs stats eh? English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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