[Discussion] Signing Kane in the offseason

[BCNate]

Kane is in entering his prime, next year he will be 27 years old.  If we can get him on a 5 year deal, I would jump on it for sure.  In a few years time, Rolling a line of Kane-Horvat-Virtanen in the playoffs will be scary.

[D-Money]

11 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Winnipeg certainly did not Dump Kane.  They traded Kane and Bogosian for Myers, Stafford, Armia (recent 1st), Lemieux (recent 2nd) and a 1st round pick.  That's a very good haul, even more so when you consider that this trade happened after a few well publicized incidents.

Yup.

 

And Buffalo didn't dump Kane either. He just didn't want to re-sign there, so Buffalo got what they could for him.

 

5 points in 3 games with San Jose, and seemingly great chemistry with Pavelski. I could definitely see the Sharks re-signing him if this keeps up.

[Provost]

He will probably be overvalued and offered more, but at 6-6.5 x 6 we should definitely sign him if that is an option.

 

We need to sign a D though and change that back end.  Carlson is really underappreciated by folks I think.  He should be thrown $6-7 million per year as an offer.

 

Those two signings would make a significant difference to our roster and moving on from guys like Hutton, Baertschi, Granlund in an effort to re-make the roster a little instead of coming back with the same one that has been awful for three years.  Try to trade Tanev for a decent return.

 

[Canucklehead73]

F@K no.... is my knee jerk response 

 

Just don't have time for people who may or may not be giving 100% commitment to the team and I don't just mean on the canucks.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Canucklehead73

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, Canucklehead73 said:

F@K no.... is my knee jerk response 

 

Just don't have time for people who may or may not be giving 100% commitment to the team and I don't just mean on the canucks.

Plus, we don't need him, and he is too old for our next core.  We have Gadjovic coming along, and he's better than Kane, while being a good teammate.  If we go after a UFA it should be John Carlson for Washington.

[IBatch]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Plus, we don't need him, and he is too old for our next core.  We have Gadjovic coming along, and he's better than Kane, while being a good teammate.  If we go after a UFA it should be John Carlson for Washington.

Next year OEL too.  There are so very good just outside elite, potential to be elite, defenseman that could reach free agency that would be great to pick up.  Either of those guys would change our defense for the better.  Going forward our cap space will become one of out biggest assets, I hope management uses it wisely.  Kane and his 45-55 points can stay away for probably Horvat type money, we can find that from within.  Also I'd rather see Granlind, Bear and Hutton recycled than resigned, it will also whittle away at cap space and all three positions can and should be replaced internally.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Next year OEL too.  There are so very good just outside elite, potential to be elite, defenseman that could reach free agency that would be great to pick up.  Either of those guys would change our defense for the better.  Going forward our cap space will become one of out biggest assets, I hope management uses it wisely.  Kane and his 45-55 points can stay away for probably Horvat type money, we can find that from within.  Also I'd rather see Granlind, Bear and Hutton recycled than resigned, it will also whittle away at cap space and all three positions can and should be replaced internally.

Totally agree.  Big UFA money should only be spent on D.

[SabreFan1]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

Yup.

 

And Buffalo didn't dump Kane either. He just didn't want to re-sign there, so Buffalo got what they could for him.

 

5 points in 3 games with San Jose, and seemingly great chemistry with Pavelski. I could definitely see the Sharks re-signing him if this keeps up.

If you mean by, "He just didn't want to re-sign there" before he hit free agency to maximize the dollars in his next contract, you're right, that's what most players do.  After this season is over though, he'll re-sign with whoever pays him the most no matter who the team is.  The teams that might get a small break on overall AAV would be teams like FLA and Vegas because they have no state income tax in Florida and Nevada.

[D-Money]

1 minute ago, SabreFan1 said:

If you mean by, "He just didn't want to re-sign there" before he hit free agency to maximize the dollars in his next contract, you're right, that's what most players do.  After this season is over though, he'll re-sign with whoever pays him the most no matter who the team is.  The teams that might get a small break on overall AAV would be teams like FLA and Vegas because they have no state income tax in Florida and Nevada.

Agreed.

 

For me, I've always been of the mind that if he accepts less than market value to play for Vancouver, do it. If he's simply going to the highest bidder, then pass. Sounds like Buffalo thought the same.

[SabreFan1]

5 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Agreed.

 

For me, I've always been of the mind that if he accepts less than market value to play for Vancouver, do it. If he's simply going to the highest bidder, then pass. Sounds like Buffalo thought the same.

I think in Buffalo it came down to the cap and that he's already used up his "get out of jail free" cards with the local prosecutors office.  One more rapey and/or violent outburst and he would have possibly been looking at some serious charges.

[Angry Goose]

14 hours ago, guntrix said:

He ticks all the boxes this forum has been crying for.

 

He's a consistent goal-scorer 

He brings grit and plays with an edge

He's 6'2" 212 pounds

At 26, he's not as old as people are making him out to be

 

All this can be acquired without giving up assets if we can nab him as a UFA. 

It all comes down to his attitude IMO.  Guys like Green Gudbranson and Edler will not put up with him if he’s as self absorbed as the media makes him out to be.  This team has a great culture going as seen with how focused the young guys are on being good pros.

 

as much as I like the on ice Kane they have to take great care in this respect

[IBatch]

52 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

If you mean by, "He just didn't want to re-sign there" before he hit free agency to maximize the dollars in his next contract, you're right, that's what most players do.  After this season is over though, he'll re-sign with whoever pays him the most no matter who the team is.  The teams that might get a small break on overall AAV would be teams like FLA and Vegas because they have no state income tax in Florida and Nevada.

Absolutely.  Kane has made it apparent in the past that he likes big stacks of cash with his infamous rooftop deck or money photos, the first one got him in trouble, the second one was a joke on the first one.  

 

Who will be the highest bidder?  FLD, TB and Vegas both can offer a little less to equal Vancouver money, our taxes are better than all but those states, I think if he does well in SJ and  and he has a good playoff they could keep him...otherwise the highest bidder no doubt.

 

 

[SabreFan1]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Absolutely.  Kane has made it apparent in the past that he likes big stacks of cash with his infamous rooftop deck or money photos, the first one got him in trouble, the second one was a joke on the first one.  

 

Who will be the highest bidder?  FLD, TB and Vegas both can offer a little less to equal Vancouver money, our taxes are better than all but those states, I think if he does well in SJ and  and he has a good playoff they could keep him...otherwise the highest bidder no doubt.

How do  you figure?  In BC, anything over 150k is taxed at 16.8%  https://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/bc.htm

 

In NY, which has a high tax rate in the US,  the highest state tax bracket is taxed at 8.82%.  https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it201i_tax_rate_schedule.pdf

[kloubek]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Plus, we don't need him, and he is too old for our next core.  We have Gadjovic coming along, and he's better than Kane, while being a good teammate.  If we go after a UFA it should be John Carlson for Washington.

Yup. Edler remains our best overall defenseman, and while he's having a better year, that's just plain sad.  Carlson should be a target for sure... though we probably can't expect the same PPG he's having this season in a contract year. Unfortunately, such players becoming available by UFA are rare, so it'll be pricey.  In which case, perhaps we wait for OEL next season - who might be a better fit anyway.

[Rob_Zepp]

16 hours ago, smokes said:

So finally Evander Kane is most likely going to be headed to UFA. We know Benning has been trying to trade for him for a long time. Would you like to see the Canucks sign Evander Kane in the off season?

You know this how?   Pretty sure it has been the media linking Canucks to EK.  I don't recall Benning stating that he was after Kane.  Further, Benning seems to strive for a certain type of character in his players and Kane doesn't seem to quite fit.    I would be quite surprised if the Canucks pursued him for a number of reasons.

[IBatch]

27 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

How do  you figure?  In BC, anything over 150k is taxed at 16.8%  https://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/bc.htm

 

In NY, which has a high tax rate in the US,  the highest state tax bracket is taxed at 8.82%.  https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it201i_tax_rate_schedule.pdf

It works differently in the states for athletes, check it out, NY has some of the highest taxes in the NHL, there are some good calculators all ready to go if you google NHL tax calculator.  It doesn't affect the lower tier players as much, but once you get over 5 million most states have higher taxes than any Canadian team go figure.

 

 

They vary from 48-55plus %, ouch.  It makes a big difference in take home pay though.  Florida is sheltered somewhat.  IMO the cap should be an even playing field, each team should have it's own cap reflecting the tax brackets, and TB and Florida should have a lower cap.

Edited March 8, 2018 by IBatch

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

It works differently in the states for athletes, check it out, NY has some of the highest taxes in the NHL, there are some good calculators all ready to go if you google NHL tax calculator.  It doesn't affect the lower tier players as much, but once you get over 5 million most states have higher taxes than any Canadian team go figure.

Huh, thanks for the info.  I remember years ago when they talked about having a jock tax, but didn't realize they followed through on it.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, SabreFan1 said:

Huh, thanks for the info.  I remember years ago when they talked about having a jock tax, but didn't realize they followed through on it.

You have to wonder if Daley and other pro sports were involved somehow, it would be very difficult to have a cap at all if it wasn't at least close to a level playing field, which for the most part it is.  I still think TB is getting some breaks given Stamkos extremely team friendly contract might not have been so friendly if the same team was in NY.  I guess the GMs don't mind enough for now, but at some point maybe they should consider lowering the cap there and Nevada if they also get the same breaks (I'm not sure about them).  I was shocked to see the Calgary, EDM and Vancouver so high on the list of teams with the overall lowest tax implications, so hope they just leave it alone.

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

You have to wonder if Daley and other pro sports were involved somehow, it would be very difficult to have a cap at all if it wasn't at least close to a level playing field, which for the most part it is.  I still think TB is getting some breaks given Stamkos extremely team friendly contract might not have been so friendly if the same team was in NY.  I guess the GMs don't mind enough for now, but at some point maybe they should consider lowering the cap there and Nevada if they also get the same breaks (I'm not sure about them).  I was shocked to see the Calgary, EDM and Vancouver so high on the list of teams with the overall lowest tax implications, so hope they just leave it alone.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/professional-athletes-big-league-tax-bills

I just pulled it up and see that the jock tax isn't always an extra tax on top of what is paid in a home state.  You can get a credit on the taxes that you pay up to the maximum percentage of your home state.  That explains why players don't mind going to NY and California teams as much as most think that they should.

 

 

It also helps answer part of the question as to why NHL players prefer to play in the US.  The media pressure being the other part of course.

 

Quote

"As a result, it's advantageous for Canadian players to move to the U.S.," says Losi. "That's what a lot of the NHL guys do. As long as you don't have Canadian-source income, you don't pay Canadian tax, you save 13% on every dollar, plus there are a lot more deductions and credits in the U.S."

 

[Noble 6]

Positives to bringing in Kane:

 

- Size 

- Speed

- Goal-scoring ability

- Toughness/grit

- Could be a great fit with Pettersson/rookies down the line

 

Negatives to bringing in Kane:

 

- Significant baggage and history of character issues that likely wouldn't improve in Vancouver

- Contract demands could be too high (anything over 5.75 million per for more than 6 years is too much for me)

- Excess of forward depth (specifically on LW)

 

For me, if he signed a contract with less than a 5.75 million dollar cap hit that ran for 6 years or less, I'd consider it. He'd have to agree to some sort of code of conduct though. I don't realistically see him accepting that contract, so I probably wouldn't sign Kane.