(Discussion) What Does The Future Hold, How Long?

[TheGuardian_]

Do not dump on the players, they are trying, they just aren't a good team/group, just too many of the same kind.

 

Now is not the time for panic, now is the time for thoughtful and planned moves going forward.

 

Determine the type of team, the identity.

An honest estimation/evaluation of the team and it's prospects.

The next 2/3 years of draft prospects, possible FA's and RFA's.

Looking into other teams caps and contracts.

Estimating the effects of a possible labour dispute.

Reworking this team's cap to "weaponize" it.

Stagger contracts so cap space become available each year.

Set "goals", division, conference, league, in terms of years.

 

Clearly communicate to the fans and back it up, show the fans you know what is happening, going to happen and a set time period, example,

A total blowup, it will take 2/3 years to make the playoffs, 3/4 years to be playoff competitive and 4/5 years to be a cup contender.

Designate players from other teams and target them for acquisition, a decent example would/could be TO trading for Kessel.

 

Get ahead of the media, don't let them make the story, cut them off, example; "sure we knew it was going to be a grind and it is better/worse than estimated", building depth, injuries, poor play..... Or simply state the goal for that year in a broad area. "The make up of the team right now makes it difficult for the players to succeed nightly"

 

Moving forward should be planned for a target, don't panic, don't make a bone head trade or signing of a FA, the winning will come but have a target, time frame, use all the tools at disposal, the GM/President should keep an arms reach away from the team so they can do the "tough and unpleasant" things necessary for the good of the franchise.

 

It is time for Dr. Jekyll to rest and Mr. Hyde to have his day in the sun. 

[HerrDrFunk]

You think Trevor and Jim spend their days playing table hockey, don't you?

[Shift-4]

We're all going to die   

[Dekey Pete]

Those are all really good points, and I imagine that the current management group is already doing things very similar to what you just outlined.  The fact that they don't publicly come out and say it doesn't mean it's not being done.

[RonMexico]

29 minutes ago, The Sedge said:

Those are all really good points, and I imagine that the current management group is already doing things very similar to what you just outlined.  The fact that they don't publicly come out and say it doesn't mean it's not being done.

But I bought a foam puck head, I DEMAND to know the plan for my financial support of the team.

[JM_]

but really bad thing happen when Mr Hyde shows up.... 

[TheGuardian_]

A speed up of the rebuild could happen but it would take hard decisions.

 

The two best assets the team has could net multiple 1rst round picks over the next 2 years, Horvat and Boeser. It would be taking a step back but two steps forward.

 

1rst rounder's have the best odds of making the show but it still a crap shoot, in Horvat and Boeser they are sure things and would have an immediate impact on any team, so 1rst rounder's (maybe 2) , a very young established prospect/player and a secondary pick.

 

There are plenty of teams that are "close" and a bidding war for either of these guys would reach epic proportions. Don't need to deal both this year but an extra lottery pick this year and next?

 

Moving Tanev could also gain another 1rst round pick, some teams are dying on the vine needing his type of game.

 

Sure it would hurt the team, but there are the prospects coming and what could be drafted player stepping right into the show, 3 players moved for up to 5 1rst round picks, who knows what would be offered but 2 1rst's for either should not be out of range considering the 2nd 1rst is not likely to be a lottery pick.

 

You would need to have faith in the teams scouting that those prospects talked about come through. Would Buffalo give up their 1rst this year for Horvat? A pick and a prospect?

 

If they did it could be possible that the Nucks get the #1 overall and Tkachuck.

 

Would TO? Liljegren and their 1rst? Again if the Nucks got lucky, Dahlin and Liljegren plus a later round guy, maybe add a 2nd to trade up to get Bouchard? The D is done most likely especially if Groot is resigned to Guddy money.

 

That would be only one of the two traded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

What Does The Future Hold, How Long?

You will continue to create threads, current rates seems about two a week, demonstrating that you hate the Canuck management and you have no room in your life for the patience that it takes for the turnaround to happen.   That is what the future holds.

 

As far as the "how long"? question, and I cannot claim to speak for everyone, but hopefully not much longer as theoretically even someone of your ability will eventually run out of ways of re-creating the same thread.   Right?!  

[TheGuardian_]

20 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

You will continue to create threads, current rates seems about two a week, demonstrating that you hate the Canuck management and you have no room in your life for the patience that it takes for the turnaround to happen.   That is what the future holds.

 

As far as the "how long"? question, and I cannot claim to speak for everyone, but hopefully not much longer as theoretically even someone of your ability will eventually run out of ways of re-creating the same thread.   Right?!  

Man talk about single mindless, I make no mention of this management group whatsoever, I post in a "Arm chairing" forum.

 

You must be really introverted to chase me around and create fantasies to satisfy your mind, let me guess, it is always someone else's fault? Nobody understands you?, Someone was always blaming you? Never clean enough? Smells outside?

 

Room in my life for patience, sure I had room 50 years ago and even though my family sports many centurions the truth of the matter is "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", in hockey terms, if the fans want change they have to make noise, like they do in the states, being mediocre is not okay and in this sport a "participation ribbon" should not be acceptable.

 

This is a "fantasy" forum for speculation, I feel complimented that my opinion challenges this management group's job, in your opinion

 

Sometimes it takes a lot of work to get through the concrete

 

BTW, I don't hate these guys, like the players on the ice now, I believe they are/have done their very best, it is not good enough, not all management groups are perfect and this one is far from it, the only good thing to come out of it is the shear number of top 5 or 6 draft picks. By accident.

[J.I.A.H.N]

27 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Man talk about single mindless, I make no mention of this management group whatsoever, I post in a "Arm chairing" forum.

 

You must be really introverted to chase me around and create fantasies to satisfy your mind, let me guess, it is always someone else's fault? Nobody understands you?, Someone was always blaming you? Never clean enough? Smells outside?

 

Room in my life for patience, sure I had room 50 years ago and even though my family sports many centurions the truth of the matter is "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", in hockey terms, if the fans want change they have to make noise, like they do in the states, being mediocre is not okay and in this sport a "participation ribbon" should not be acceptable.

 

This is a "fantasy" forum for speculation, I feel complimented that my opinion challenges this management group's job, in your opinion

 

Sometimes it takes a lot of work to get through the concrete

 

BTW, I don't hate these guys, like the players on the ice now, I believe they are/have done their very best, it is not good enough, not all management groups are perfect and this one is far from it, the only good thing to come out of it is the shear number of top 5 or 6 draft picks. By accident.

Guardian.....I don't always agree with you, but I support your right to express your point of view..........keep posting!

One of the things that has occurred to me over the past few years, has been CDC's reluctance to move veterans before they fall off the edge...

This has never been more obvious than with the Sedin's, Hamhuis, and Burrows

The fact was that I believe the Fan's were more instrumental in keeping them here than management.............it was pretty adamant  that we not move those players, and this has had as much of a impact on our rebuild as anything.........(Not moving aging assets)....I also imagine it had a lot to do with how Aqualini seen the fan base

and how his direction may have been jaded by the fan base.............

 

Other teams, have taken a more direct route in recent years, and have moved veterans out as needed........................

 

So in short......you have mentioned these types of things over the years and taken heat for it...................but what I have noticed is that many other posters are now echoing the rebuild, instead of retool...............as you have shouted for years

 

I find it more funny that CDC has changed more than you............in regards to how this rebuild is accomplished........

 

I don't know if that all makes sense.........but what the hell, we are rebuilding whether want to or not....lol Just enjoy!

[HerrDrFunk]

3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

A speed up of the rebuild could happen but it would take hard decisions.

 

The two best assets the team has could net multiple 1rst round picks over the next 2 years, Horvat and Boeser. It would be taking a step back but two steps forward.

 

1rst rounder's have the best odds of making the show but it still a crap shoot, in Horvat and Boeser they are sure things and would have an immediate impact on any team, so 1rst rounder's (maybe 2) , a very young established prospect/player and a secondary pick.

 

There are plenty of teams that are "close" and a bidding war for either of these guys would reach epic proportions. Don't need to deal both this year but an extra lottery pick this year and next?

 

Moving Tanev could also gain another 1rst round pick, some teams are dying on the vine needing his type of game.

 

Sure it would hurt the team, but there are the prospects coming and what could be drafted player stepping right into the show, 3 players moved for up to 5 1rst round picks, who knows what would be offered but 2 1rst's for either should not be out of range considering the 2nd 1rst is not likely to be a lottery pick.

 

You would need to have faith in the teams scouting that those prospects talked about come through. Would Buffalo give up their 1rst this year for Horvat? A pick and a prospect?

 

If they did it could be possible that the Nucks get the #1 overall and Tkachuck.

 

Would TO? Liljegren and their 1rst? Again if the Nucks got lucky, Dahlin and Liljegren plus a later round guy, maybe add a 2nd to trade up to get Bouchard? The D is done most likely especially if Groot is resigned to Guddy money.

 

That would be only one of the two traded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. I can't believe the mods still let you create threads. 

 

Speed up the rebuild by trading away two young, literal all-star players who will be in their prime by the time the Canucks are ready to contend again? Christ almighty. 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Man talk about single mindless, I make no mention of this management group whatsoever, I post in a "Arm chairing" forum.

 

You must be really introverted to chase me around and create fantasies to satisfy your mind, let me guess, it is always someone else's fault? Nobody understands you?, Someone was always blaming you? Never clean enough? Smells outside?

 

Room in my life for patience, sure I had room 50 years ago and even though my family sports many centurions the truth of the matter is "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", in hockey terms, if the fans want change they have to make noise, like they do in the states, being mediocre is not okay and in this sport a "participation ribbon" should not be acceptable.

 

This is a "fantasy" forum for speculation, I feel complimented that my opinion challenges this management group's job, in your opinion

 

Sometimes it takes a lot of work to get through the concrete

 

BTW, I don't hate these guys, like the players on the ice now, I believe they are/have done their very best, it is not good enough, not all management groups are perfect and this one is far from it, the only good thing to come out of it is the shear number of top 5 or 6 draft picks. By accident.

Wow, I CAN tell the future!!!!

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Do not dump on the players, they are trying, they just aren't a good team/group, just too many of the same kind.

 

Now is not the time for panic, now is the time for thoughtful and planned moves going forward.

 

Determine the type of team, the identity.

An honest estimation/evaluation of the team and it's prospects.

The next 2/3 years of draft prospects, possible FA's and RFA's.

Looking into other teams caps and contracts.

Estimating the effects of a possible labour dispute.

Reworking this team's cap to "weaponize" it.

Stagger contracts so cap space become available each year.

Set "goals", division, conference, league, in terms of years.

 

Clearly communicate to the fans and back it up, show the fans you know what is happening, going to happen and a set time period, example,

A total blowup, it will take 2/3 years to make the playoffs, 3/4 years to be playoff competitive and 4/5 years to be a cup contender.

Designate players from other teams and target them for acquisition, a decent example would/could be TO trading for Kessel.

 

Get ahead of the media, don't let them make the story, cut them off, example; "sure we knew it was going to be a grind and it is better/worse than estimated", building depth, injuries, poor play..... Or simply state the goal for that year in a broad area. "The make up of the team right now makes it difficult for the players to succeed nightly"

 

Moving forward should be planned for a target, don't panic, don't make a bone head trade or signing of a FA, the winning will come but have a target, time frame, use all the tools at disposal, the GM/President should keep an arms reach away from the team so they can do the "tough and unpleasant" things necessary for the good of the franchise.

 

It is time for Dr. Jekyll to rest and Mr. Hyde to have his day in the sun. 

I like that.  Seems reasonable to me, especially the time frames.  It's possible things will advance quicker than normal, but that depends entirely on who we acquire either through the draft initially, including our prospects, and via free agency to plug holes later.  Personally I think the second biggest highlight of the season (after Boeser of course), was the Horvat signing. Benning set a precedent there with future RFAs, reasonable money and term, with no NTC/NMC attached.  

 

Interesting read.

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Wow, I CAN tell the future!!!!

Good for you, I have to work at evaluating the odds of things myself based on something alien to you, experience and thoughtful observation. Were you "just" a player? 

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

A speed up of the rebuild could happen but it would take hard decisions.

 

The two best assets the team has could net multiple 1rst round picks over the next 2 years, Horvat and Boeser. It would be taking a step back but two steps forward.

In saying what I just said.............I wouldn't be in to trading away proven young assets..............especially not those two............

 

3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

1rst rounder's have the best odds of making the show but it still a crap shoot, in Horvat and Boeser they are sure things and would have an immediate impact on any team, so 1rst rounder's (maybe 2) , a very young established prospect/player and a secondary pick.

 

There are plenty of teams that are "close" and a bidding war for either of these guys would reach epic proportions. Don't need to deal both this year but an extra lottery pick this year and next?

 

Moving Tanev could also gain another 1rst round pick, some teams are dying on the vine needing his type of game.

Tanev, I could see traded, for maybe an over payment...............say Foote and 2018 1st, (it would have to be for a grade A defense prospect and a mid to late first)

 

3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

Sure it would hurt the team, but there are the prospects coming and what could be drafted player stepping right into the show, 3 players moved for up to 5 1rst round picks, who knows what would be offered but 2 1rst's for either should not be out of range considering the 2nd 1rst is not likely to be a lottery pick.

 

You would need to have faith in the teams scouting that those prospects talked about come through. Would Buffalo give up their 1rst this year for Horvat? A pick and a prospect?

 

If they did it could be possible that the Nucks get the #1 overall and Tkachuck.

 

Would TO? Liljegren and their 1rst? Again if the Nucks got lucky, Dahlin and Liljegren plus a later round guy, maybe add a 2nd to trade up to get Bouchard? The D is done most likely especially if Groot is resigned to Guddy money.

 

That would be only one of the two traded.

Like I say.............I don't always agree with you! LOL

 

 

 

[TheGuardian_]

2 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Wow. I can't believe the mods still let you create threads. 

 

Speed up the rebuild by trading away two young players? Christ almighty. 

Again, this is more a fantasy forum.

 

But the idea has merit if time is taken into account. Only this team's draft picks so far have failed to make the team in year 1 or year 2 and made an impact. They may very well be excellent player but until they are here who knows for sure.

 

There just isn't enough high valued assets on the team unless prospects are traded, which is counter productive but if trading away these two ended up getting the team;

 

A "generational" dman - Dahlin - If the Nucks are lucky this time

A second very highly rated stud dman, both 18/19 yrs. - Liljegren

A large top six forward or huge dman - Tkachuk - Bouchard or ? - From 1rst round pick acquired  via trade for one of those guys. 

A possible "generational" forward - Hughes - Again if the Nucks are lucky but there would be a second 1rst round pick from a trade of the second of those two guys.

 

Combined with Lind, Gadovitch, Pettersson, Vitanen, Gaudette, Dahlen, OJ, maybe Palmu, MacEwen,

 

All would be around 20 yrs old and needing mentors, maybe the Sedins and Edler for a season and then ?

Tanev could be possibly moved.

 

Those would be assets and teams I would target. Of course there would be other FA's of character, like Dorsett, to be signed.

 

The "plan" would be to have them all 2 year pro's by 2020, a young team like that might attract a second stud dman FA like Doughty or Karlsson, in 2019 there could be quite a few FA's available if advertised it right without breaking any rules, a blanket statement like "We will be looking to free agency to find players to take us to the next level, we could be looking to spend to the limit for the right player"

 

Like I stated though, what do you think the offers would be like if either was on the auction block? 

[TheGuardian_]

In 2020 the possible line up could be;

 

Pettersson - Hughes - Gadovitch/Dahlen

Tkachuk(?) - Lind - Vitanen

Palmu - Gaudette - Guance/Gadovitch

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen/MacEwen

 

Dahlin - Groot

Liligren - Edler (Bouchard)

Guddy - OJ

Stecher- Hutton

Biega

 

Demko

DiPietro

Markstrom/Nillson

 

Leadership would/could come from Sedins, Virtanen(might be good for him), Edler, Guddy, Hansen/FA?

Carry a full roster, but a lot of these guys are easily sent to Utica for years. Sit the Sedins every now and then.

Loads of NHL proven tradable assets.

Picks from the 2020 draft and the other later round picks from 2018 and 2019.

Tanev could be auctioned off at the draft in 2018 or keep him for some mentoring until the TDL 2019

 

This would be a scary fast team with some decent size and scary skill if they all meet projections by even 75%.

 

Moving just a few very high valued players could shorten the rebuild by 3 years, remember after the rebuild comes the learning how to win in the playoffs but this group would only be experiencing the dismal bottom of the league for no more than two years.

 

Edmonton Oilers had 22 players 24 and under their first year, year two they made the playoffs, year three they lost the semi's, year four they played for the cup, year five they won the cup and never looked back, a broke owner dismantled the team otherwise it may have been a record breaking power house for almost 20 years especially if they had the revenue sharing they do now.

[King Heffy]

Did you seriously suggest trading Boeser, the best rookie we've ever had not named Bure, would make a good trade candidate?   Suggesting Virtanen as a leadership candidate already?  Consider moving the one guy on the team who seems to give a damn more than anyone else right now in Horvat?

 

[Crabcakes]

News flash!  Rebuilds are messy and it sucks to be at the bottom of the league for a few years.  

 

Through the rebuild, by it's nature, the teams performance will be highly vulnerable to injuries.  

 

So suck it up people.  We're going down the rebuild hole.  It's something that Canucks haven't seen since Keenan got his mitts on the team 20 years ago.

 

The good news is that the prospect pool is on it's way back from oblivion and is now decent.

 

FWIW, if there wasn't a plan that FA could get behind, JB wouldn't have been re-signed

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

Don't forget about Chatfield. He played well for a handful of preseason games and was instantly deemed a part of the future d-core.