Tempting Pkg For DAHLIN?(discussion)

[komodo0921]

I'm for dealing our 1st round pick, regardless of position.

!st OA simply means the biggest return.

Dahlin is going to be a superstar defenseman. Whom ever we deal with, instantly gets themselves a massive piece to build a blueline around. A massive return is warranted.

 

To Buffalo:                                      To Vancouver:

1st OA pick 2018                            Casey Mittlestadt

Sven Baertschi                               Cliff Pu

                                                       2018 1st and 2nd rnd picks

                                                       2019 1st and 2nd rnd picks

 

Buffalo missed out on the McDavid sweepstakes.

Do they miss out on a chance to get a generational defender?

If they say no, it gets real simple. 

We take Dahlin and live happily ever after.

                                                        

                                                         

[Nuxfanabroad]

8 minutes ago, komodo0921 said:

I'm for dealing our 1st round pick, regardless of position.

!st OA simply means the biggest return.

Dahlin is going to be a superstar defenseman. Whom ever we deal with, instantly gets themselves a massive piece to build a blueline around. A massive return is warranted.

 

To Buffalo:                                      To Vancouver:

1st OA pick 2018                            Casey Mittlestadt

Sven Baertschi                               Cliff Pu

                                                       2018 1st and 2nd rnd picks

                                                       2019 1st and 2nd rnd picks

 

Buffalo missed out on the McDavid sweepstakes.

Do they miss out on a chance to get a generational defender?

If they say no, it gets real simple. 

We take Dahlin and live happily ever after.

                                                        

                                                         

That's a huuge payment. For clarity, I'm imagining Buff has say the #3OA pick(could be Svech or Zadina)

 

Can't ever see them paying that price..but yeah, you'd HAVE to accept that! (Thanks for a colourful example)

[komodo0921]

5 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

That's a huuge payment. For clarity, I'm imagining Buff has say the #3OA pick(could be Svech or Zadina)

 

Can't ever see them paying that price..but yeah, you'd HAVE to accept that! (Thanks for a colourful example)

LIke I said; A massive piece demands a massive return. 

Missing out on an opportunity to get a piece like Dahlin may be too tempting to pass up.

We may even get Ottowa and Detroit in the talks to spice things up. 

Can they allow division rivals get the jump on them.

This is where Benning has a real chance to show his GMing ability.

It would be a win-win for JB.

Either we get a massive return that sets us up for many big additions over the next two drafts, or we get a generational defender to anchor our blueline for years to come.

There would be no bad scenario here.

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

I'm for dealing our 1st round pick, regardless of position.

!st OA simply means the biggest return.

Dahlin is going to be a superstar defenseman. Whom ever we deal with, instantly gets themselves a massive piece to build a blueline around. A massive return is warranted.

 

To Buffalo:                                      To Vancouver:

1st OA pick 2018                            Casey Mittlestadt

Sven Baertschi                               Cliff Pu

                                                       2018 1st and 2nd rnd picks

                                                       2019 1st and 2nd rnd picks

 

Buffalo missed out on the McDavid sweepstakes.

Do they miss out on a chance to get a generational defender?

If they say no, it gets real simple. 

We take Dahlin and live happily ever after.

                                                        

                                                         

I hope they say yes...or no.,but more yes than no.

[12-16-FG]

I really don't know if it's the 1st OA. How about the 1st OA generational player. Last year's 1st OA probably gets you 2 x1st's and a position player, this year could be a philarbuster of possibilities. Even the no#2 and 3 gets you 2x1st's and a prospect. NO one will trade Dahlin away. The next 7 years of this kid in your line up, will be worth a lot of sold tickets.

[HockeydownUnder]

I say no to this deal. It is impossible to trade/sign young elite/generational talent in this league. Whoever is selected 2nd overall will be good. Dahlin is simply that much better that adding a 1st, a 2nd and a high 2nd doesn't do it for me. Pu and Casey are meh.

 

To give up Dahlin I'd be expecting an elite talent coming back the other way. This deal doesn't address that. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

On ‎2018‎年‎3‎月‎18‎日 at 8:45 AM, HockeydownUnder said:

I say no to this deal. It is impossible to trade/sign young elite/generational talent in this league. Whoever is selected 2nd overall will be good. Dahlin is simply that much better that adding a 1st, a 2nd and a high 2nd doesn't do it for me. Pu and Casey are meh.

 

To give up Dahlin I'd be expecting an elite talent coming back the other way. This deal doesn't address that. 

Surprised people might still reject such an offer. Buffalo would be lousy for a while. Those are 4 nice picks.

[HockeydownUnder]

8 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Surprised people might still reject such an offer. Buffalo would be lousy for a while. Those are 4 nice picks.

This page has a chart that really demonstrates the value of a draft pick. 

 

https://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-nhl-draft-pick-value-1.786131

 

Picking in the top 6 gives you more than 50% chance at a top 6 forward/ top 4 defensemen. By the mid 1st round that chance has dropped to roughly 33%. By the end of the 1st round the chance drops to less than 20%. 2nd round picks average a 10% chance.

 

I value Sven at an early 2nd. That leaves an early 1st, a 1st and a late 2nd, plus 2 players I have little interest in. In a normal year I would take this trade. This isn't a normal year. 

 

Unless Buffalo ends up in the bottom 6 of the draft lottery in 2019, there is a greater than 50% chance that both the 2019 1st and 2019 2nd never turn into a top 6/top 4. That isnt worth the chance at an elite/generational puck moving defensemen

 

[skolozsy2]

On 3/16/2018 at 1:44 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

Agreed with this angle. The big Que/Philly deal has likely cast a longgg shadow.(albeit a cap world)

To be honest, I never saw the Lindros trade all that lopsided.  Sure it instantly turned the Quebec/Colorado franchise around, but Philly also did well after the trade too.

 

They never won the Cup, but they did go to the Finals twice and finished 1st or 2nd in their division 10 straight years.  Plus Lindros was the center piece to some very productive lines...the Crazy 8's line with Brent Fedyk and Recchi and then one of the most intimidating lines ever, the Legion of Doom line.

 

It was a great trade for Quebec and a very good trade for Philly, in my opinion.

[TheGuardian_]

Everyone will hate the idea but;

 

Boeser plus a 2nd & 3rd round picks for the #1 overall, to any team, maybe throw in OJ as well if necessary. Some combination.

 

Boeser had a back injury, back injuries have devastated many players over the following years.

 

Have to give up quality to get quality. Boeser will be a star, Dahlin could be a superstar.

 

Buffalo.....well any team would love to have a gunslinger like him and the Canucks are still years out yet.

 

The Nucks would have 2 first round picks in the top 5/6 this year, the #1 and their own.

 

And there is always next year and any picks they might pick up for Tanev or any of the others, who knows maybe a deal with Edmonton, enhanced for their #1 or Puljujarvi and their 2nd, Tanev and Virtanen/OJ?

 

The idea being to load up this year and next on top level talent with the 2021 season as the target.

 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

On 3/15/2018 at 6:08 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

I was considering if any team could afford(mostly extra assets) the required cost it would take, to land Dahlin?

 

I'd appreciate any/all input, so many kids I've hardly seen play. Haven't watched jr games for many yrs, since away from NA.

 

***SCENARIO***..A US team wins the #1 OA selection. Perhaps a Buffalo, Ariz or Chicago(heaven forbid)

 

I'd say Winnipeg could offer up a pretty enticing package.

 

example:Trouba, Morrisey, Roslovic, Connor.

 

Questions:

1 - Would these 4 pieces represent overpayment?

2 - Could you see any of the mentioned teams accepting this(potentially 3 US stars in this pkg)?

3 - Remember Winnipeg has to shell out soon for Laine also. They've got a backlog of top young talent. Would they be wise to pkg a bunch of it for this elite kid, Dahlin?

 

Lastly: What's one team you could theoretically see assembling a legitimate, realistic offer to nab the #1 OA pick? Conversely, what's a lotto winner that you could imagine accepting said offer?

I think the ONLY team with something that would land No. 1, if it lands in hands of a sane GM, is NYI given all the teams "likely" to get No.1 overall could really use this player.   NYI could page their TWO first round picks and exclusive negotiating rights to JT and IF that team could get some backdoor confirmation of JT signing with them AND two nice first round picks (both will be lottery picks as looks like neither NYI or Calgary will make playoffs) in a deep draft...that would be worth considering for Dahlin.    At least I think it would be worth considering.

[Rob_Zepp]

41 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Everyone will hate the idea but;

 

Boeser plus a 2nd & 3rd round picks for the #1 overall, to any team, maybe throw in OJ as well if necessary. Some combination.

 

 

 

 

Boeser and Joulevi plus a 2nd and a 3rd would likely not get it done.   It would gut the soul of the Canucks as well (Boeser) but, sadly, without Canuck blinders on this would not get it done.   

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Boeser and Joulevi plus a 2nd and a 3rd would likely not get it done.   It would gut the soul of the Canucks as well (Boeser) but, sadly, without Canuck blinders on this would not get it done.   

Yeah, a step backwards.

 

But Boeser's 40 goals might be replaced by Pettersson and Gaudette. The two first round picks might also kick in another 30 to 40.

 

With injuries such a prevalent problem having one player injured vs 4 players injured and IF done Dahlin might make other players much better just from the defence more than Boeser.

 

I will be concerned for Boeser's back injury from experience. Lots of torque right there when shooting and skating hard.

[Rob_Zepp]

43 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Yeah, a step backwards.

 

But Boeser's 40 goals might be replaced by Pettersson and Gaudette. The two first round picks might also kick in another 30 to 40.

 

With injuries such a prevalent problem having one player injured vs 4 players injured and IF done Dahlin might make other players much better just from the defence more than Boeser.

 

I will be concerned for Boeser's back injury from experience. Lots of torque right there when shooting and skating hard.

A tailbone injury isn't a big deal - this wasn't a disc or similar so not sure if I qualify as medical opinion for you but this should be a non-issue entirely for him.   It would have hurt like hell but once healed (and it is probably close now), he would be fine.    A true chronic back issue is more of a disc issue (for example) which apparently wasn't an issue with this injury.

[TheGuardian_]

54 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

A tailbone injury isn't a big deal - this wasn't a disc or similar so not sure if I qualify as medical opinion for you but this should be a non-issue entirely for him.   It would have hurt like hell but once healed (and it is probably close now), he would be fine.    A true chronic back issue is more of a disc issue (for example) which apparently wasn't an issue with this injury.

I broke one of those flanges off a vertebrae, I could still function pretty well as before but some people end up with stabbing pain, I have had a few times when I have got what I call "white" pain, my sight goes white, had to learn how to do somethings differently, like couldn't bat or play hockey both sides very well after and numbness in the legs. Actually the doc called it a broken back, I played 3 weeks before x-rayed, in pain.

[Rob_Zepp]

19 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I broke one of those flanges off a vertebrae, I could still function pretty well as before but some people end up with stabbing pain, I have had a few times when I have got what I call "white" pain, my sight goes white, had to learn how to do somethings differently, like couldn't bat or play hockey both sides very well after and numbness in the legs. Actually the doc called it a broken back, I played 3 weeks before x-rayed, in pain.

That isn't what happened to him but in your case, ouch that sounds mega painful.   You can't get that removed?

[TheGuardian_]

13 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

That isn't what happened to him but in your case, ouch that sounds mega painful.   You can't get that removed?

it reknitted to the vertebrae, not the right way but the doc said not worth the chance of operation. Back then everything was put you under, I had a tenancy to stop breathing when under for my knee operations.

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, TheGuardian_ said:

it reknitted to the vertebrae, not the right way but the doc said not worth the chance of operation. Back then everything was put you under, I had a tenancy to stop breathing when under for my knee operations.

Crap, that sucks.  Sounds like you may benefit from them doing things ortho for you in future under local.    Bummer dude.   Nasty to have that stuff.   I have been really lucky with all surgey been "modern" and worked out really well.

 

I can say with some confidence, and I have no knowledge you don't have on this, that Boeser will have had nothing if not the best MRI etc. and IF there was any risk of having your situation they would have repaired it.   I do know that many procedures (someone was talking shoulders in another thread, that is something I know about) and literally you can be even better than before injury nowadays.   Crazy stuff.   Even TJ surgeries for pitchers can improve them.   Nuts.

[cuporbust]

Boqvist is a very very good consolation prize.  I wouldn't pay the price to move up. 

[TheGuardian_]

Any deal for this kid will be expensive

 

The first thing for everyone to remember is no one player is the team.

 

In another thread I thought up this idea, since this fantasy stuff.

 

He is one of the few players over the last two decades that was a concensus best player almost a full year before his draft year, the others have proven the rankings correct so,

 

 

What does Vancouver get in Dahlin?

 

Their very first #1 overall pick and a stud dman.

 

Here is a package that I don't think any team in the league could pass up,

 

Bo Hovat   -  1rst round pick

Olli Julievi  - 1rst round pick - defence

Troy Stecher - NHL defence

Ben Hutton - NHL defence

2018 - 2nd round pick

2019 - 2nd round pick (maybe)

2020 - Conditional 1rst round pick - (maybe)

 

Way over kill but this would not cripple the team as it has many prospects that could make the team and even if they didn't do this the team is still 3 years away from serious contention .

 

Vancouver would still have it's own 1rst round picks

 

The Canucks could have Pettersson, Dahlen, Dahlin, playing next year with the Sedins and Edler as mentors. Their own 1rst round pick may crack the lineup as well, that could be Bouchard, Dobson, Walstrom, Boqvist, Svechnikov or Zadina. They would still have Boeser.

 

As much as the loss of Horvat would hurt, the addition of a stud dman and getting the #1 overall would ignite the market in a massive positive way. Trading Horvat is not destroying the team, it is addition by subtraction, lose one and gain one.

 

I could see the team looking something like this next year,

 

The Sedins - Pettersson

Dahlen - Sutter - Boeser

 Virtanen- Lind - Granlund

Guance - Dowd - Archie

Gagner - Gadovich - Gaudette

Goldoblin - Baertschi - Eriksson

 

Edler - Dahlin

Tanev - Gudbranson

DelZotto - Pouilot

Biega -

 

Markstrom

Nilsson

Demko

 

The other Canuck #1 pick could be a forward if high enough or even traded down to get defencemen Dobson, Wahlstrom, Boquist or Hughes.

 

That group is probably not a playoff team next year and should not be expected to be.

 

Dahlin is the cornerstone of the defence for a decade and as much as Horvat is a fan favourite, he is one player, a star maybe, Dahlin will be a superstar, something like Bure was in a different way though.

 

It also make the Seattle expansion much easier to deal with. Only players with more than two years of professional experience — NHL or AHL as defined in the collective bargaining agreement — were included in the draft.

 

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