alfstonker Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 18/03/2018 at 2:47 AM, BlackBeard said: Id rather see some scoring, weve been having that mentality since then, look where we're at now. Im not saying that physicality is not important, but scoring should be the main priority for now. And look we just got shutdown 3 straight games. Imo physicality helps scoring. For too long we have had a major physicality deficit in the forwards. Kesler was the last payer to supply it in the top 6 imo and the top 6 is where you need it. When Kesler was on the ice the opposition had their head on a swivel. It's not so much about fighting (although you have to have a line) it's about hurting the opposition with physical play. Unlike the Twins imo Kesler was made for the playoffs - we need to unearth 2 or 3 more Keslers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 18/03/2018 at 5:52 AM, hammertime said: With a future core of Bo, Boeser, Elias, Virtanen, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich. I think physically the Canucks will be far more physically competitive. Wait a minute - Bo, Boeser, Elias? have I missed something? Bo is a big body but let's face it he's no Kesler in his use of it. Boeser? - Are you watching the same games I'm watching? Elias? - Now you are just having a laugh, surely. The other 3 have potential but imo only Lind and Gadjovich have the size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 18/03/2018 at 6:07 PM, Rob_Zepp said: You do realize that the Canucks have been outhitting their opposition in almost every game in 2018. Green has been slowly getting that into the team and even last night against a heavy Sharks team, they out hit them and that was without Guddy in the lineup. If by physical you mean fighting - that is slowly not happening in the league at all. Not sure what you mean then? 2011 was a long time ago. Firstly there are hits and HITS. The only guys who hit worth a damn in the team are Edler, Jake and Biega. The rest administer flea bites - they itch for a while but soon wear off. Talking of hits, when the f---- is our defense coach going to start showing Tanev that it's not obligatory to stand still when someone is obviously coming to put a hit on him. It is beginning to annoy the hell out of me - no wonder he is injured so much. Actually imo our defense coach is utterly hopeless but what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On 19/03/2018 at 2:22 AM, N7Nucks said: 2011 team had almost 200 more hits that Boston did. People sleep on how tough that 2011 team was. We were injury riddled, even before the finals. Still doesn’t change the fact we need players that can legit play, scoring, defending, stopping pucks. Adding more physical players isn’t gonna get us to the playoffs. Why do people immediately start to make comments like this. Physicality and skill and speed are not mutually exclusive. You look for and draft the whole package. It is one of my major problems with drafting Juolevi. Where is the push back in this guy, it looks like we have drafted the 6'-3" 198lbs D equivalent of a Sedin. The guy's rap sheet is like he's a choirboy. (that's an insult to some choirboys) You have to ask, was physicality even on the checklist when we drafted this guy - is it ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Sutter, Gudbranson, Tanev, Edler, Eriksson, MDZ, etc. don't have character? Or you mean, they aren't characters? No, I was talking about other vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 6 hours ago, alfstonker said: Wait a minute - Bo, Boeser, Elias? have I missed something? Bo is a big body but let's face it he's no Kesler in his use of it. Boeser? - Are you watching the same games I'm watching? Elias? - Now you are just having a laugh, surely. The other 3 have potential but imo only Lind and Gadjovich have the size. You missed the point. I'm not claiming them to ALL be knuckle draggers I'm just saying our future top 9 will have a good balance of size and skill and will be much stiffer to play against than our current top 9. I am not claiming the Canucks will be the next Bullies just that they won't be pushovers and will be strong enough to play through adversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 6 hours ago, alfstonker said: Why do people immediately start to make comments like this. Physicality and skill and speed are not mutually exclusive. You look for and draft the whole package. It is one of my major problems with drafting Juolevi. Where is the push back in this guy, it looks like we have drafted the 6'-3" 198lbs D equivalent of a Sedin. The guy's rap sheet is like he's a choirboy. (that's an insult to some choirboys) You have to ask, was physicality even on the checklist when we drafted this guy - is it ever? You draft the best player. Period. Physicality is the most overrated thing on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 7 hours ago, alfstonker said: Firstly there are hits and HITS. The only guys who hit worth a damn in the team are Edler, Jake and Biega. The rest administer flea bites - they itch for a while but soon wear off. Talking of hits, when the f---- is our defense coach going to start showing Tanev that it's not obligatory to stand still when someone is obviously coming to put a hit on him. It is beginning to annoy the hell out of me - no wonder he is injured so much. Actually imo our defense coach is utterly hopeless but what do I know. Ya, ok. You want to see people on other teams getting injured on hits from Rock'm Sock'm. Outhitting the other team isn't good enough, they have to make sure they hurt people too. Cool. Welcome to 1975, I hope you enjoy your year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 4 hours ago, N7Nucks said: You draft the best player. Period. Physicality is the most overrated thing on this board. I’m guessing you grew up in the Sedin era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 4 hours ago, N7Nucks said: You draft the best player. Period. Physicality is the most overrated thing on this board. A hockey player is composed of a multitude of attributes, some have more then others. Some are fast, some have sick deaking abilitites, some can pass, some have vision of the ice, some can deliver meaningful body checks, some have killer slap shots, some can play defense just as well as they play offense, some can lead their team, some have character, some have heart, some have strong mental toughness etc. etc. I believe a player who has more of these attributes is a more "complete" player. They are few and far between but they are out there. I believe you also need a balance on your team and you need to shore up your weaknesses when you lack them including physicality. We all seen what kind of changes happen when we all of a sudden we lack some of these attributes such as when we lost Dorsett to injury. We lack "physicality" in our top 6 right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: I’m guessing you grew up in the Sedin era? And obviously he didn't watch the 2011 SCF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Why is anyone focusing on the team's physicality? What year is it? Have these people not noticed the rules changes in the NHL in the last decade? How about focusing on the teams skill or speed or goaltending or special teams or systems. Physicality has to be near the bottom of the list. And for those who claim that good teams are physical where is the evidence? Do you have anything to support your claim other than your personal, biased, eye test? Do you have any objective data or analysis that shows that physicality actually results in wins? If so I would love to know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, baumerman77 said: Why is anyone focusing on the team's physicality? What year is it? Have these people not noticed the rules changes in the NHL in the last decade? How about focusing on the teams skill or speed or goaltending or special teams or systems. Physicality has to be near the bottom of the list. And for those who claim that good teams are physical where is the evidence? Do you have anything to support your claim other than your personal, biased, eye test? Do you have any objective data or analysis that shows that physicality actually results in wins? If so I would love to know about it. Wheeler Malkin OV Hall Kopitar Rat Crosby All physical players who are also at the top of the scoring race. Looks like it still matters to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 17 minutes ago, baumerman77 said: Why is anyone focusing on the team's physicality? What year is it? Have these people not noticed the rules changes in the NHL in the last decade? How about focusing on the teams skill or speed or goaltending or special teams or systems. Physicality has to be near the bottom of the list. And for those who claim that good teams are physical where is the evidence? Do you have anything to support your claim other than your personal, biased, eye test? Do you have any objective data or analysis that shows that physicality actually results in wins? If so I would love to know about it. Regular season sure. Payoffs no. You need to be able to fend off a team for a best of seven. Four times to win the cup. That takes skill, physicality, tenacity, and durability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 17 hours ago, hammertime said: You missed the point. I'm not claiming them to ALL be knuckle draggers I'm just saying our future top 9 will have a good balance of size and skill and will be much stiffer to play against than our current top 9. I am not claiming the Canucks will be the next Bullies just that they won't be pushovers and will be strong enough to play through adversity. I didn't imply you were. No-one has mentioned Knuckle draggers. However you named players who are NOT at present "stiff" to play against. I would argue that until Bo starts using that 223lbs frame in a meaningful way he is actually no "stiffer" to play against than Danny. Bo has 33lbs on Danny does he really make the opposition aware of that - Ryan Kesler is only 202lbs, now do you see what I mean. The rest of your come back is just straw man. The fact is there is no sign amongst the players you mention other than the possibility of Lind and Gadjovich that this team's top 9 is going to be "stiffer" to play against. That may not worry you but it worries me. It worries me because I actually imagine that scouts/GMs have some sort of checklist where push back is one of the qualities, and it seems ours don't because we constantly ignore the "nasty side of hockey, the in your face belligerence" qualities when we select in the draft, apparently - and when I say that I mean players who we would expect to play in the top 6/9. And no these qualities don't need to come without skill speed and high IQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 17 hours ago, N7Nucks said: You draft the best player. Period. Physicality is the most overrated thing on this board. That sounds good but in imo it is a hockey fallacy. After the top 1,2 and sometimes 3 there is not really a "best player" There is a player who fulfils your needs who YOU think is the best player. The list is usually pretty arbitrary after 3 and if you need proof go back and see where the successful players have come from in the top 60. The only reason teams tend to but not always follow the list sequence is GMs/Head scouts lack the confidence in their own judgement. They don't want the comeback if their choice fails to be better than the BPA. I don't think Benning falls into that category but I still question the choice of Juolevi who seems imo far too soft for the NHL without having that high end skill and speed to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 16 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Ya, ok. You want to see people on other teams getting injured on hits from Rock'm Sock'm. Outhitting the other team isn't good enough, they have to make sure they hurt people too. Cool. Welcome to 1975, I hope you enjoy your year. Oh was that when the Bruins won the Cup in Vancouver. Oh wait was there not also a team from LA who used size to their advantage not that long ago. Jeez, how time flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweathog Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I don't know why so many underestimate the value of physicality in hockey. It is one of the many attributes you need to build a winner, same as goaltending, speed, skill, coaching etc. The value of physical play and intimidation has not gone away, despite the rule changes. We have to have at least an adequate level of physicality on this team, especially in our division, and it's not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sweathog said: I don't know why so many underestimate the value of physicality in hockey. It is one of the many attributes you need to build a winner, same as goaltending, speed, skill, coaching etc. The value of physical play and intimidation has not gone away, despite the rule changes. We have to have at least an adequate level of physicality on this team, especially in our division, and it's not there yet. So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/25/2018 at 8:59 PM, 189lb enforcers? said: Wheeler Malkin OV Hall Kopitar Rat Crosby All physical players who are also at the top of the scoring race. Looks like it still matters to me. Oh well I stand corrected. I never thought about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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