School Shooting In Great Mills Maryland

[Standing_Tall#37]

Just now, Warhippy said:

If you understand the history.

 

Why push such a blatantly incorrect image into the argument?

 

And are you suggesting people not guns are the problem?

History was written by the winners. Let me ask you this, did you read about your history in a text book to gain your 100% certainty and matter of fact I know more  than anyone else attitude  or did you chat with any of your family members who went and faught the nazis and lived it?   

 

 

 I’m suggesting that the state of “humanity” and bullying in America may lead to this... there’s millions upon millions of guns in North America... why is there not millions upon millions of shootings. Honestly I can see both sides of this arguement. I see the tragedy and the want to avoid this in the future but I also see not wanting to give an inch of your rights away, because once you give up something what’s to stop them from taking away anything. 

 

 Although the belief of  having rights is a crock of $&!# anyways. Don’t believe it? Look up ww2 Japanese enternment or residential schools, see how precious those peoples “rights” were. 

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

History was written by the winners. Let me ask you this, did you read about your history in a text book to gain your 100% certainty and matter of fact I know more  than anyone else attitude  or did you chat with any of your family members who went and faught the nazis and lived it?   

 

 

 I’m suggesting that the state of “humanity” and bullying in America may lead to this... there’s millions upon millions of guns in North America... why is there not millions upon millions of shootings. Honestly I can see both sides of this arguement. I see the tragedy and the want to avoid this in the future but I also see not wanting to give an inch of your rights away, because once you give up something what’s to stop them from taking away anything. 

 

 Although the belief of  having rights is a crock of $&!# anyways. Don’t believe it? Look up ww2 Japanese enternment or residential schools, see how precious those peoples “rights” were. 

I read.  The truth.  From every perspective.  Even that of the victims and the losers.

 

Truth is 100% more believable than BS right wing photos set full of disinformation to push an agenda upon the backs of one of if not the greatest act of violence ever perpetrated against other humans.

 

So again.  Are you suggesting people.  Not guns are the problem

[Standing_Tall#37]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I read.  The truth.  From every perspective.  Even that of the victims and the losers.

 

Truth is 100% more believable than BS right wing photos set full of disinformation to push an agenda upon the backs of one of if not the greatest act of violence ever perpetrated against other humans.

 

So again.  Are you suggesting people.  Not guns are the problem

I guess you have to have it black or white. But I’m not going to play within your rules of understanding. It’s both that are the problem. It’s people in situations that shouldn’t have guns... it’s my opinion that perhaps guns are to easy to come by. It’s the system in America of profiting on everything so there’s basically a &^@# everybody’s health and emotional and mental state. There’s a mix of factors. 

 

 

 I would think that you’re wise enough to know it’s not an either or situation. 

 

 

[Hugor Hill]

24 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

1) the gun laws changed in 1933 and made it more strict for “unreliable races” and loosened for traditional “Germans”

 

2) usually Blitzkrieg would take countries by surprise and they’d surrender without much opposition. Once the nations in question were conquered they’d be forced to surrender all weaponry(as any conquered people should)

 

3) I’m not suggesting anything... but I would think history has proven when a people become utterly defenseless, that’s when unthinkable acts that go against humanity happen. 

 

 You’re perspective may be different than what the picture shows. But that doesn’t make you correct. Nor am I, nor is the picture 100% right. 

 

 Also the picture was brought to get the point across, some of us have jobs and don’t have all day to argue in paragraphs   

 

 

 as for the US dealing with this incident I don’t think gun control is the problem, I think it’s a mix of bullying, mental health, the condition of desperation that America has created... the inequality. EVERYone grows up handling guns in my part of the province growing up, yet there’s no shootings? Why? I think there’s got to be a very special kind of mentality going on to want to harm and hurt people like that. 

Bold 1: You just did. Repeatedly.

Bold 2: I actually agree that these are factors. But unless you find a way to eliminate (or at least severally reduce) bullying, inequality and mental health problems etc, strict gun control laws seems far more achievable and practical. Just like the video game argument, it's hard to kill people with a Playstation controller.

 

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

I guess you have to have it black or white. But I’m not going to play within your rules of understanding. It’s both that are the problem. It’s people in situations that shouldn’t have guns... it’s my opinion that perhaps guns are to easy to come by. It’s the system in America of profiting on everything so there’s basically a &^@# everybody’s health and emotional and mental state. There’s a mix of factors. 

 

 

 I would think that you’re wise enough to know it’s not an either or situation. 

 

 

I keep hearing people claim people; not guns are the issue.

 

Yet when i ask them WHY their sides solution is to then give people more freedom; more access to or less restrictions towards guns they say i dont understand or they mumble about their rights

 

You dont have to plsy "within my rules"  im a gun owner.  I could argue one side as equally as the other.

 

But then again i wont start my entrance to the conversation with such a disturbingly incorrect image based on such a horrific incident in human history

[Hugor Hill]

31 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

History was written by the winners. Let me ask you this, did you read about your history in a text book to gain your 100% certainty and matter of fact I know more  than anyone else attitude  or did you chat with any of your family members who went and faught the nazis and lived it?   

 

 

 I’m suggesting that the state of “humanity” and bullying in America may lead to this... there’s millions upon millions of guns in North America... why is there not millions upon millions of shootings. Honestly I can see both sides of this arguement. I see the tragedy and the want to avoid this in the future but I also see not wanting to give an inch of your rights away, because once you give up something what’s to stop them from taking away anything. 

 

 Although the belief of  having rights is a crock of $&!# anyways. Don’t believe it? Look up ww2 Japanese enternment or residential schools, see how precious those peoples “rights” were. 

History is written by historians. Who, for the most part, are impartial.

But then there are people who, instead of learning actual history from actual historians, prefer biased and subjective anecdotes. 

 

 

[Hugor Hill]

18 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

I guess you have to have it black or white. But I’m not going to play within your rules of understanding. It’s both that are the problem. It’s people in situations that shouldn’t have guns... it’s my opinion that perhaps guns are to easy to come by. It’s the system in America of profiting on everything so there’s basically a &^@# everybody’s health and emotional and mental state. There’s a mix of factors. 

 

 

 I would think that you’re wise enough to know it’s not an either or situation. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I keep hearing people claim people; not guns are the issue.

 

Yet when i ask them WHY their sides solution is to then give people more freedom; more access to or less restrictions towards guns they say i dont understand or they mumble about their rights

 

You dont have to plsy "within my rules"  im a gun owner.  I could argue one side as equally as the other.

 

But then again i wont start my entrance to the conversation with such a disturbingly incorrect image based on such a horrific incident in human history

People is definitely part of the problem. 

Stricter gun controls do not punish guns; they make gun ownership more accountable. So some people might want to look at it as... 'punishing' people, I suppose.

 

I mean, how do you punish guns? That's non-sense. 

[J-Dizzle]

4 minutes ago, Hugor Hill said:

History is written by historians. Who, for the most part, are impartial.

But then there are people who, instead of learning actual history from actual historians, prefer biased and subjective anecdotes. 

 

 

Whoa whoa whoa.... historians are not impartial. Anyone who thinks they’re writing an unbiased (or reading an unbiased) history is seriously fooling themselves.... with that said, I’ve gotta stop coming into this thread   

[CBH1926]

44 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

1) the gun laws changed in 1933 and made it more strict for “unreliable races” and loosened for traditional “Germans”

 

2) usually Blitzkrieg would take countries by surprise and they’d surrender without much opposition. Once the nations in question were conquered they’d be forced to surrender all weaponry(as any conquered people should)

 

3) I’m not suggesting anything... but I would think history has proven when a people become utterly defenseless, that’s when unthinkable acts that go against humanity happen. 

 

 You’re perspective may be different than what the picture shows. But that doesn’t make you correct. Nor am I, nor is the picture 100% right. 

 

 Also the picture was brought to get the point across, some of us have jobs and don’t have all day to argue in paragraphs   

 

 

 as for the US dealing with this incident I don’t think gun control is the problem, I think it’s a mix of bullying, mental health, the condition of desperation that America has created... the inequality. EVERYone grows up handling guns in my part of the province growing up, yet there’s no shootings? Why? I think there’s got to be a very special kind of mentality going on to want to harm and hurt people like that. 

No amount of weapons in the hands of Jewish civilians would have changed the outcome.

 

[Hypocritical Cranium]

19 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I keep hearing people claim people; not guns are the issue.

 

Yet when i ask them WHY their sides solution is to then give people more freedom; more access to or less restrictions towards guns they say i dont understand or they mumble about their rights

 

You dont have to plsy "within my rules"  im a gun owner.  I could argue one side as equally as the other.

 

But then again i wont start my entrance to the conversation with such a disturbingly incorrect image based on such a horrific incident in human history

Inanimate objects are not the problem. The same way cars are not the problem when drunk drivers kill people. 

 

People are the problem 100% of the time. Guns are just the weapon of choice. Bombs, cars, knives, chemicals etc can all be the weapon of choice but in the end the common denominator is people. Being punished daily by the crap we see all around us is causing people to break mentally and do violent things. 

 

It's the way things are headed here and it's going to get worse. 

[Hypocritical Cranium]

5 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

No amount of weapons in the hands of Jewish civilians would have changed the outcome.

 

Not true, 1 well aimed nuke at the right time would have changed history, but I get what you are saying. 

 

However, if you were to ask all those now dead Jews if they would have like to have had a gun and ammo to defend themselves from what was going to happen, how many would say No?

[Hugor Hill]

3 minutes ago, Hypocritical Cranium said:

Inanimate objects are not the problem. The same way cars are not the problem when drunk drivers kill people. 

 

People are the problem 100% of the time. Guns are just the weapon of choice. Bombs, cars, knives, chemicals etc can all be the weapon of choice but in the end the common denominator is people. Being punished daily by the crap we see all around us is causing people to break mentally and do violent things. 

 

It's the way things are headed here and it's going to get worse. 

I don't disagree. That's why we need stricter gun control laws to try to reduce the amount of dangerous people from owning guns.

[CBH1926]

2 hours ago, Hypocritical Cranium said:

Not true, 1 well aimed nuke at the right time would have changed history, but I get what you are saying. 

 

However, if you were to ask all those now dead Jews if they would have like to have had a gun and ammo to defend themselves from what was going to happen, how many would say No?

Yeah, I guess they would have been able to kill few Germans, but in the end their fate would have been the same.

Weapons in the hands of untrained civilians, are useless very often.

 

During the war back home, family friend was in a small town that was surrounded .

About 100 locals, including him decided to try to fight their way and escape.

 

Majority were killed since they only had M70 guns, the other side had tanks, artilery etc.

The ones they were captured, were taken in, tortured beaten etc.

 

Few days later about 50 or so, were loaded on the bus and taken to another place.

Once the bus stopped, they fired RPG’s, bullets and threw hand grenades at the bus.

He was amongst 47 people that was killed.

 

So I do get why people feel the need to be able to defend themselves.

But in case of major war, I don’t think that changes the outcome.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

23 minutes ago, Hugor Hill said:

I don't disagree. That's why we need stricter gun control laws to try to reduce the amount of dangerous people from owning guns.

Are we talking about American restrictions or Canadian?

[Hugor Hill]

2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Are we talking about American restrictions or Canadian?

American. My bad for using 'we'.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, Hugor Hill said:

American. My bad for using 'we'.

No worries, i was just getting lost, there's been lots of talk about both countries.

 

From my point of view, (not that it matters), i think the US could use something similar to the Canadian model,  Whether or not that solves any of the gun issues is another question.  

[Hugor Hill]

13 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Yeah, I guess they would have been able to kill few Germans, but in the end their fate would have been the same.

Wepons in the hands of untrained civilians, are useless very often.

 

During the war back home, family friend was in a small town that was surrounded .

About 100 locals, including him decided to try to fight their way and escape.

 

Majority were killed since they only had M70 guns, the other side had tanks, artilery etc.

The ones they were captured, were taken in, tortured beaten etc.

 

Few days later about 50 or so, were loaded on the bus and taken to another place.

Once the bus stopped, they fired RPG’s, bullets and threw hand grenades at the bus.

He was amongst 47 people that was killed.

 

So I do get why people feel the need to be able to defend themselves.

But in case of major war, I don’t think that changes the outcome.

Wow... may I ask which war that was?

[Rob_Zepp]

5 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

I honestly don’t think there is a simple solution. I’d give some thoughts

 

-freedom comes with danger (the same way freedom to enjoy a beer comes with the danger of drunk drivers, the freedom to hunt and own guns comes with the danger of people misusing firearms)

 

-We need to stop being so freaking selfish and start paying attention to our youth (I was at ‘lecture’ recently where a respected youth psychologyst used the term systematic abandonment of our youth). Perhaps if we start investing some social capitol (specifically in young men) they won’t feel the need to walk into a public place and shoot people (and perhaps we’ll spot a few of those who may eaelier and get them the help they need). 

 

-Pushback on postmodernism’s obsession with deconstructing everything.  While the Medeival era in western history put God at the centre of existence and the enlightenment put human reason at the centre of existence, post modernism has deconstructed everything from family to logic to morality to science.... no wonder Almost all of our youth experience anxiety issues greater than any time period I’m aware of...they have no where to ground anything (can’t trust religion, can’t trust reason, can’t even trust your own cognitive faculties) that’s going to leave some going over the edge somewhere. 

 

Thats mostly off the top of my head but I really don’t see locking law abiding citizen’s guns up as anywhere close to an answer for the issue our society is facing.... as a religious man, I’d say we have a heart issue, perhaps someone who would consider themselves a person of science would offer a different explanation (maybe an abandonment of reason), but somewhere we’ve gotta figure out some cures to the deeper issue..... just my thoughts. 

Didn't see a single thing here about the guns themselves.   I don't mind addressing other items but what should be done with all the weapons out there and the ease by which they can be accessed?

[RUPERTKBD]

Quote

 

To hear the National Rifle Association tell it, Saturday's March for Our Lives was orchestrated by billionaires and Hollywood to push an anti-gun agenda.

On Facebook Saturday morning, the NRA posted a short membership-drive video along with a brief message.

"Stand and Fight for our Kids' Safety by Joining NRA," it said. "Today's protests aren't spontaneous. Gun-hating billionaires and Hollywood elites are manipulating and exploiting children as part of their plan to DESTROY the Second Amendment and strip us of our right to defend ourselves and our loved ones."

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/heres-what-the-nra-had-to-say-about-the-march-for-our-lives/ar-BBKEkAK?li=AAggFp5

 

Stay classy, NRA...

[Rob_Zepp]

4 hours ago, Kragar said:

What are you hoping to solve?  There are about 11K gun homicides per year down here, but 80% of those are attributable to gang violence (source).  So, that leaves about 2500 per year, and tack on another thousand for accidents.  It is unlikely that the gang-related deaths would decrease with the proposed gun laws, but for now, let's pretend that some of these "common sense" proposals would save some of these other 3500 people.

 

We're still dealing with 3500 people, but talking about infringing on the rights of hundreds of millions.

 

It seems everyone is trying to fix our "gun problem".  Why the hell don't they aim higher?

 

Why is smoking allowed?  And, to use some familiar phrasing... why does anyone need to smoke?  CDC says 480,000 Americans die per year because of tobacco, with 41,000 of those being innocents exposed to 2nd hand smoke.  That's 41 times the number of innocents dying from accidental gun deaths, and over 16 times the number of non-gang gun murders.  There are about 100 million gun owners, compared to 38 million smokers.  Can you tell me who is doing more harm to innocent people?  $170 billion in health care costs result from smoking in the US... almost 9% of all health care spending.

 

How many kids get their hands on their parent's smokes?  Maybe it's time for a licensing program, so that only suitable people are allowed to buy tobacco?  What about common sense mandatory training programs, so that people learn how to lock up their cigarettes safely, to protect the children from starting the habit?

 

There are 6 million people dying per year globally because of tobacco usage. Americans are under-represented in that (we make up 4.4% of the world population, so our rate of tobacco-related deaths would extrapolate to 1.1M).  Maybe we can tell parts of the rest of the world to stop smoking, since they are over-represented in killing themselves and others by tobacco use?

 

Do you think maybe, just maybe, there is something else behind the gun debate?

So because guns are not killing as many people as other issues we should ignore them?    Why not address all things that take away life as best we can as a society?   

 

I wonder how many of you pro-gun people would have that stance if your brother/sister or similar were killed in a school shooting or your neighbour randomly came over and shot your dog/GF/BF to death?   

 

Your answer points to other things society should fix.   Great.   All they while your sister/brother or BF/GF was shot and killed by someone who was able to get a gun too easily.   Come back and tell me society was ok in their priorities then.