Draft Deal with Flamers(discussion)

[Nuxfanabroad]

Can imagine CDC'ers freaking out over this idea. Everyone seemingly fancies themselves a (semi) pro scout, & 1st R picks are the treasure they lose their minds over.

 

Calgary is in a very embarrassing situation(getting worse with every loss..the optics are horrid). I'm sure Burkey was likely behind that ill-fated, Hamonic-scheme..it's so similar to the Kessel fiasco.

 

IMAGINE: We're holding the #4 or 5 OA selection, & Tkachuk is still on the board. How much would the Flamers overpay to unite Keith Tkachuk's runts(no, I didn't like KT..can't deny it)? Could we exploit this situation?

 

- They're Deeep on D. We need D, big-time.

- Their D-prospects are stuck behind some big names..we wouldn't have such a problem

 

I've read some good things on the Cal D prospects..would appreciate input(haven't watched), so sure don't pretend to know their precise value.

 

General framework of a deal:

VAN: 2018 1st R pick (so they pick Tkachuk)

Pouliot

Gagner(dealing these 2 for cap & contract numbers)

 

CAL:

Rasmus Anderson 2015 2nd. RH D, 210 lbs(prob ready next yr?)

Valimaki (their 2017 1st r pick)

Troy Brouwer(his contract expires same time as Gagner's..more size for our bottom-6 fwds)

 

After this, we could still deal Tanev(prob Eastern team) for a later 1st. If Tryamkin returned, in 2 years we'd have a big, smooth skating, Euro back-end:

 

Juolevi - Tryamkin

Valimaki - Andersson

with maybe vets like Edler & Gudbranson, & other kids that climb the ranks.

 

Would match up well wth the more developed timeline for our fwd class.

[linden17]

Interesting. a few questions would be are the available dmen in the top ten of the draft projected to be more solid than Calgarys prospects. Another would be can Calgary afford to have two edgy players who will no doubt put them short handed more than a handful of times.

[Rick Blight]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Can imagine CDC'ers freaking out over this idea. Everyone seemingly fancies themselves a (semi) pro scout, & 1st R picks are the treasure they lose their minds over.

 

Calgary is in a very embarrassing situation(getting worse with every loss..the optics are horrid). I'm sure Burkey was likely behind that ill-fated, Hamonic-scheme..it's so similar to the Kessel fiasco.

 

IMAGINE: We're holding the #4 or 5 OA selection, & Tkachuk is still on the board. How much would the Flamers overpay to unite Keith Tkachuk's runts(no, I didn't like KT..can't deny it)? Could we exploit this situation?

 

- They're Deeep on D. We need D, big-time.

- Their D-prospects are stuck behind some big names..we wouldn't have such a problem

 

I've read some good things on the Cal D prospects..would appreciate input(haven't watched), so sure don't pretend to know their precise value.

 

General framework of a deal:

VAN: 2018 1st R pick (so they pick Tkachuk)

Pouliot

Gagner(dealing these 2 for cap & contract numbers)

 

CAL:

Rasmus Anderson 2015 2nd. RH D, 210 lbs(prob ready next yr?)

Valimaki (their 2017 1st r pick)

Troy Brouwer(his contract expires same time as Gagner's..more size for our bottom-6 fwds)

 

After this, we could still deal Tanev(prob Eastern team) for a later 1st. If Tryamkin returned, in 2 years we'd have a big, smooth skating, Euro back-end:

 

Juolevi - Tryamkin

Valimaki - Andersson

with maybe vets like Edler & Gudbranson, & other kids that climb the ranks.

 

Would match up well wth the more developed timeline for our fwd class.

That scenario could make Calgary a good trading partner. If they would be willing to part with 2 of Anderson, Valimaki or Fox, I would make that deal in a heartbeat. We might have to add a forward prospect like Goldobin or 3rd round pick to make them bite though.

Good proposal.

[Nuxfanabroad]

51 minutes ago, linden17 said:

Interesting. a few questions would be are the available dmen in the top ten of the draft projected to be more solid than Calgarys prospects. Another would be can Calgary afford to have two edgy players who will no doubt put them short handed more than a handful of times.

Yeah..tempestuous duo, no doubt. But they could market the Hell outa' that. The Tkachunky bros. After seeing our successful bro duo for past 2 decades, they might think it's the way to go?

 

Also league wants a new barn in Cowtown. They could get the lackey media trumpeting such a high-profile move.

 

With all their silly deals of past draft picks, & a prime-aged D-core, it's arguable this serves their timeline too.

[Fanuck]

Just keep our own picks - stay away from the Lames 'tainted' property. 

[HockeydownUnder]

The Flames won't have a draft pick in the first 3 rounds this year so getting one back may very well be of interest to them. What about at the draft, if Canucks pick 4th or 5th and Tkachuk is still on the table, we deal the pick along with Stecher for Hamilton and another piece?

 

Hamilton is only 24 years old (25 in a few months), plays the right side, and has been one of the few bright spots on the Flames.  Also acquiring Hamilton makes trading Tanev more palatable.

 

I'm generally for drafting our own talent but there is a pretty big void on the Canucks back side and Hamilton has been a top pairing defensemen the last couple years. I think Flames would normally hang up but a chance at the brothers would be tempting for them.

 

One issue with this is both brothers are left wings and the one knock on Brady is his foot speed. Unless he can improve there and show he can play center, the two brothers wouldn't be playing together.

 

I think I'd hold onto the draft pick regardless but if I was to move it, I'd want to know I was getting a good player back. If I wanted to take a chance, I'd just keep the pick.

 

[CaptainKool]

Nah, im not freaking out but we are NOT going to trade our first this year. How can you ignore Rasmus Dahlin, #1 pick is swede this year, obviously Canucks bound. 

[HockeydownUnder]

13 minutes ago, CaptainKool said:

Nah, im not freaking out but we are NOT going to trade our first this year. How can you ignore Rasmus Dahlin, #1 pick is swede this year, obviously Canucks bound. 

Oh how I hope so. To have that franchise defensemen would be so freaking awesome!

 

If we don't get it, I'll be a little disappointed but I'll get over it. If Edmonton gets it, I'm going to spend the rest of the day swearing profusely!!!

[Canuck Surfer]

I really don't want to trade a, what, 5th overall this year, Pouliot was also a high draft pick, for a 2knd and mid first?

 

Just draft a D 4th or 5th overall...

[Canuck Surfer]

6 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Can imagine CDC'ers freaking out over this idea. Everyone seemingly fancies themselves a (semi) pro scout, & 1st R picks are the treasure they lose their minds over.

 

Calgary is in a very embarrassing situation(getting worse with every loss..the optics are horrid). I'm sure Burkey was likely behind that ill-fated, Hamonic-scheme..it's so similar to the Kessel fiasco.

 

IMAGINE: We're holding the #4 or 5 OA selection, & Tkachuk is still on the board. How much would the Flamers overpay to unite Keith Tkachuk's runts(no, I didn't like KT..can't deny it)? Could we exploit this situation?

 

- They're Deeep on D. We need D, big-time.

- Their D-prospects are stuck behind some big names..we wouldn't have such a problem

 

I've read some good things on the Cal D prospects..would appreciate input(haven't watched), so sure don't pretend to know their precise value.

 

General framework of a deal:

VAN: 2018 1st R pick (so they pick Tkachuk)

Pouliot

Gagner(dealing these 2 for cap & contract numbers)

 

CAL:

Rasmus Anderson 2015 2nd. RH D, 210 lbs(prob ready next yr?)

Valimaki (their 2017 1st r pick)

Troy Brouwer(his contract expires same time as Gagner's..more size for our bottom-6 fwds)

 

After this, we could still deal Tanev(prob Eastern team) for a later 1st. If Tryamkin returned, in 2 years we'd have a big, smooth skating, Euro back-end:

 

Juolevi - Tryamkin

Valimaki - Andersson

with maybe vets like Edler & Gudbranson, & other kids that climb the ranks.

 

Would match up well wth the more developed timeline for our fwd class.

Goldobin for Kylington?

[Nuxfanabroad]

14 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Goldobin for Kylington?

Can't offer really good opinions on value. Any jr Utube clips I catch are highlighting whatever player, so it only shows their best moments. On a cruddy lil' pc screen, I often can't even see where the D-men are!

 

To really know with D-men, you pretty much have to see them play live a few times. Generally just base my proposals on where guys are picked, team needs, & various comments on players(I come across), etc... But do think it's worthwhile to consider/debate various trade avenues, That kinda' spitballing can help us get a clearer idea of asset-values(picks, prospects & pros).

 

If we can figure out a deal to get TWO solid young D prospects(^as per above), sure think it's worth considering. But you need a clear comparison between all these various D. It's a tough position to peg players accurately at 18(what you're getting, precisely).

[rekker]

Some good thoughts and you may be onto something. They need bottom six help and we need young D.

[PlanB]

9 hours ago, HockeydownUnder said:

The Flames won't have a draft pick in the first 3 rounds 

They have a 3rd, two 4ths, a 6th and a 7th.  

Hamilton was traded b/c he was a lazy, disinterested player who only showed up when he felt like getting points - JB would likely be fully aware of this so HARD PASS on that one. 

 

9 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Just keep our own picks - stay away from the Lames 'tainted' property. 

Can't stress it enough - THIS ^.

 

We've travelled down this path long enough folks, it's time we all realize it and accept it.  Let JB/TL complete the re-build.   There's no quick fixes for this franchise.   Build through the draft,  keep our own picks,  acquire more whenever/wherever appropriate and follow through with the patience and development necessary to support those picks.  The only thing it'll cost us is time. 

[Chris12345]

I have thought about this too.

 

You could also draft Tkachuk and use him in a deal later on. It's no secret Van wants Dman so if I was Calgary I would call Bennings bluff anyway and deal with someone else. I think part of the problem with Benning is he is predictable and everyone can read his cards. He almost has to pull a fast one to prove he can play with the big boys.

 

I actually really like Tkachuk. I would have drafted Mathew and if he is there I'd sure as $hit draft Brady.

 

I still think Joulevi will be ok I am not bashing I could turn out to be wrong.

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

16 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Can imagine CDC'ers freaking out over this idea. Everyone seemingly fancies themselves a (semi) pro scout, & 1st R picks are the treasure they lose their minds over.

 

Calgary is in a very embarrassing situation(getting worse with every loss..the optics are horrid). I'm sure Burkey was likely behind that ill-fated, Hamonic-scheme..it's so similar to the Kessel fiasco.

 

IMAGINE: We're holding the #4 or 5 OA selection, & Tkachuk is still on the board. How much would the Flamers overpay to unite Keith Tkachuk's runts(no, I didn't like KT..can't deny it)? Could we exploit this situation?

 

- They're Deeep on D. We need D, big-time.

- Their D-prospects are stuck behind some big names..we wouldn't have such a problem

 

I've read some good things on the Cal D prospects..would appreciate input(haven't watched), so sure don't pretend to know their precise value.

 

General framework of a deal:

VAN: 2018 1st R pick (so they pick Tkachuk)

Pouliot

Gagner(dealing these 2 for cap & contract numbers)

 

CAL:

Rasmus Anderson 2015 2nd. RH D, 210 lbs(prob ready next yr?)

Valimaki (their 2017 1st r pick)

Troy Brouwer(his contract expires same time as Gagner's..more size for our bottom-6 fwds)

 

After this, we could still deal Tanev(prob Eastern team) for a later 1st. If Tryamkin returned, in 2 years we'd have a big, smooth skating, Euro back-end:

 

Juolevi - Tryamkin

Valimaki - Andersson

with maybe vets like Edler & Gudbranson, & other kids that climb the ranks.

 

Would match up well wth the more developed timeline for our fwd class.

Filthy Phil Kessel is much beyond Travis Harmonic, who has always been way overvalued. 

 

Your proposed D-line with Edler and Gudbranson sounds good to me. 

[Adarsh Sant]

Wouldn't it be better just to draft Boqvist or Hughes?

[Nuxfanabroad]

14 minutes ago, Adarsh Sant said:

Wouldn't it be better just to draft Boqvist or Hughes?

The premise is TWO birds in the hand are better than whatever 1 is in the bush.

 

I've clearly stated I haven't seen these kids play, & don't profess to be a pt pro scout. Subban, Weber, Keith(2nd rounders) & even Karlsson prove grading these kids at 18 is an inexact science. The two D from Calgary(esp Anderssen) would have to be evaluated, vs the piece that's available to pick. THAT's why JB(& scouts) get the big bux.

 

IF they're picking at #4 or #5 OA, I'd guess they'd get a call or 2 from the Flamers. Their terrible Hamonic transaction(appears at this point) might drive them to make a further mistake. Imagine you could extract Anderssen & their 2019 1st instead(perhaps one more piece with that)? Just healthy discussion where fans decide where the value threshold resides. I don't approach/start such threads as hard proposals..but rather as(sometimes) interesting analysis of relative draft pick/prospect appraisals.

[HockeydownUnder]

6 hours ago, PlanB said:

They have a 3rd, two 4ths, a 6th and a 7th.  

Hamilton was traded b/c he was a lazy, disinterested player who only showed up when he felt like getting points - JB would likely be fully aware of this so HARD PASS on that one. 

 

Can't stress it enough - THIS ^.

 

We've travelled down this path long enough folks, it's time we all realize it and accept it.  Let JB/TL complete the re-build.   There's no quick fixes for this franchise.   Build through the draft,  keep our own picks,  acquire more whenever/wherever appropriate and follow through with the patience and development necessary to support those picks.  The only thing it'll cost us is time. 

Ahh I missed the condition on the Mike Smith deal. Calgary will definitely hold onto its 2018 3rd round pick and give up the 2019 one instead.

 

I think Edmonton and Calgary are opposites in a way.

 

Calgary has shipped off picks in an attempt to compete sooner than later. Now they've pigeonholed themselves into a borderline playoff team again. They won't have the young talent coming to let them take the next step.

 

Edmonton let a lot of its players develop in a losing culture. 10 years in a row of not making the playoffs just isn't healthy for a franchise and its players, particular when young players are forced to play roles they aren't ready for. Combine that with a couple of foolish trades and it's no wonder they are in the position they are. They have the best player in the game and they are well out of the playoffs.

 

I think the Canucks have done well. Lots of talent in the pipeline and the youth under Green are getting a fair look if they deserve it. Hopefully we can add a top defensemen in the draft, but it would be hard to complain if we ended up with Zadina or Svechnikov.

[Crabcakes]

8 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

The premise is TWO birds in the hand are better than whatever 1 is in the bush.

 

I've clearly stated I haven't seen these kids play, & don't profess to be a pt pro scout. Subban, Weber, Keith(2nd rounders) & even Karlsson prove grading these kids at 18 is an inexact science. The two D from Calgary(esp Anderssen) would have to be evaluated, vs the piece that's available to pick. THAT's why JB(& scouts) get the big bux.

 

IF they're picking at #4 or #5 OA, I'd guess they'd get a call or 2 from the Flamers. Their terrible Hamonic transaction(appears at this point) might drive them to make a further mistake. Imagine you could extract Anderssen & their 2019 1st instead(perhaps one more piece with that)? Just healthy discussion where fans decide where the value threshold resides. I don't approach/start such threads as hard proposals..but rather as(sometimes) interesting analysis of relative draft pick/prospect appraisals.

I get the idea but I think it would be better to take the high end D and a similar D to Anderson with our very high 2nd this year.  

 

So while it would take longer for the players to hit the main stream, the Canucks could have a top 6 OA D in a really strong defensive draft vs a 16 OA D in Valimaki.  So long term, the Canucks would theoretically have the better players.  

 

Good idea but the return isn't worth the deal.

[kenhodgejr]

I like this plan but it would have to be all three of them + Calgary's 3rd + 4th round 2018 picks for me. This would also take a lot of pressure off of Juolevi. Also only of we pick 4th or lower. 

 

I think Calgary fans would be thrilled if this trade happened. They don't have a first or second pick and to be able to have both Tkachuk brothers play their careers in Calgary would be a good thing. Mathew has balls of steel on his own imagine with his brother Brady playing beside him. They will make life hell for everyone.  Calgary will pay well for this. Gudbranson would replace Anderson as a 5-6 defence man and Hutton would give them defensive depth. 

1. Juuso Valimaki 

2. Rasmus Anderson 

3. Adam Fox 

4. Calgary 2018 3rd + 4th 

 

for 

1. 4th overall - Brady Tkachuk

2. Erik Gudbranson 

3. Ben Hutton 

 

Leipsic Horvat Boeser 

Domi Pettersson Eriksson 

Granlund Sutter Goldobin 

Archibald Motte Virtanen

Dowd

 

Edler Anderson

Valimaki Stetcher 

Juolevi Fox 

Pouliot  

 

Anderson has already played in the NHL, Valimaki + Fox look like they could play next year and so does Juolevi.  All three look like good NHL players in my opinion and would fast track our rebuild giving us a strong group of defence prospects who are ready to grow with our young core. We can still try and sign a guy like Ekman- Larsson who is a gritty skilled puck moving defence man that we need. We can focus on adding size up front next draft or by trade like Baertchi, Gagner + Del Zotto for Domi 

 

After this draft we will have 

 

1 - second round pick

2- third round picks

1 - fourth round pick

1- fifth round pick

1- 6th round pick

1 - 7th round pick. 

 

Thats a pretty stacked team for Calgary 

 

Gaudreau Monahan Lazar 

Tkachuk Tkachuk Bennett 

Frolik Backlund Brouwer

Ferland Jankowski Stewart 

Shore Stajan Hathaway 

 

Giordano Hamilton

Stone Hamonic 

Kulac Gudbranson 

Hutton