Team Review and Suggested Moves (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

First Off ............Here are the Roster spots and a suggested Depth Chart.............maybe a little out, but not enough to  change my presentation (aka....Post)

 

LW                                      Center                                   RW                                    LHD                                         RHD                                  Goalies

 

Baertschi                           Horvat                                    Boeser                              Edler                                        Tanev                                 Markstrom

Petterssen                          Sutter                                     Virtanen                            MDZ                                         Gudbranson                        Demko

Leipsic                                Gaudette                                Eriksson                           Pouliot                                      Stecher                                Nillson

Dahlen                                Granlund                                Gagner                             Hutton                                      Biega                                   DiPietro

Goldobin                             Dowd                                      Jokenin                            Joulevi                                      Chatfield

Motte                                   -----------                                  Lind                                 Sautner                                    Tryamkin

Gaunce                               -----------                                  Lockwood                        McEneny

Archibald                             -----------                                  MacEwen                        Brisebois

                                                                                                                                   Rathbone

 

I have included all NHL and UFA/RFA contracts or who's rights are owned by the Vancouver Canucks

 

I have hi-lighted those that I think could or should be moved and will give you my reasons why, I will also put out values and suggested

replacements and why I have considered the replacements I have...............I will also give a suggested cost and the amount of years we should sign

them for, and why.

 

My first statement is that I love our prospects and young pro's, I do however think our team is full of talent and short on size, going forward.

I think that now that it is playoff time, you will be able to see the difference, where size does matter, and where a talented big man,

will win out over a talented little man.................

 

Baertschi (RFA)...............................................value 2018 2-2nds

Tanev (2 years Left @ $4,450,000 per)...........value 2018 1st (14 OA to 17 OA)         or         18 OA to 24 OA + 2nd         or       25 OA  to 31 OA + Blue chip prospect

MDZ (1 yr Left) @ $3,000,000)@ 50%............value 2018 1 - 2nd

Nilsson (1 yr Left @ $2,500,000)@50%...........value 2018 1 - 6th

 

Replacement Players July 1st UFA's

 

Replace Tanev with either:

Mike Green 32 yrs........last contract $6,000,000.......................offer 3 years @ $7,250 Million per year

or

John Carlson 28 yrs.....last contract $4,000,000........................offer 5 years @ $8,000 Million per year

 

Replace Baertschi with either:

Evander Kane 26 yrs....last contract $6,000,000........................offer 6 years @ $7,500 Million per year

or

David Perron 29 yrs......last contract $4,000,000........................offer 4 years @ $5, 500 million per year

 

My choices would be to sign Carlson and Kane to their offers. The cost of UFA's is steep and it is true that we are not finished our rebuild, but IMO, the signing of these 2 free agents, does not move us far in the first year but it does get us bigger, and more durable, further more, they will allow us to gain asset for 2 players under existing contracts, or under RFA restrictions, which will further quicken our rebuild, while not taking a step back.

 

This also keeps the costs controlled, for any Luongo cap recovery, and allows us to keep reserves, that will cover any ELC's that come up over the next 3 years............expect the NHL cap to be approx. 78 to 80 million this coming year, 81 to 83 million in 2019/2020, and approx. 85 million in 2020/2021. Which will be good as Eriksson's contract will only have 1 year by then, and much easier to handle.

 

Just a question, but would you take John Carlson + mid 2018 1st  for Tanev?      Or      Kane/Perron for Baertschi and 2 -2018 2nds?................I would take both in a flash!

 

OK......it's clobbering time! Be gentle!

 

[JM_]

Jan u a nut.

 

I think we need to hang on to Tanev now, our D group is going to need all the stability it can get and I think with his guaranteed injury rate we just won't get that kind of return. And thats fine, we need him to give us a chance at staying competitive game to game. 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

Jan - PS, Virtanen is a LW.   If Canucks want him to be the player he can ultimately be, they will forget trying to turn him into a right winger.

[Father Ryan]

I'd keep Baer, at least next year. With his injury woes, we would be lucky to get one 2nd for him, much less two.

Add Gadjovich onto the LW list...move Petersson to C

I would possibly look at trading Granlund. Nice Swiss Army Knife to have...I'd let him go for a 3rd + AHL level D (after some trades, we're gonna be a little thin)

Trade Tanev...yes. Your expected return, I think is close to accurate, maybe just a little too much in the last example. Also, trade MDZ, I could see a 3rd for him.

Nilsson...good bye for whatever we can get, and a 6th is about right...maybe even a 7th. But he's gotta go.

 

Signings...Kane would be the top chase, I'd offer 7.5 per and 5-6 year term, so we're really close there. But on D, neither one of them. I think we need someone back end to be some muscle, so that Guddy doesn't get the idea that he is the only toughness on the back end. So...enter Ian Cole. I'd offer 2.5-2.75 per on a 4 year term.

I hope that they don't chase after too many people. I'd like to see some cap room left, and I mean serious room, like 7-10M left over. No need to spend to the limit, not next year. Maybe in 4-5 years, when the current group is hitting their Cup window, then yeah, spend to the limit to find that one missing piece to bring the Cup here. But not until then.

 

As always, @janisahockeynut, you've got some good ideas and willing to think them through!

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

54 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Jan u a nut.

 

I think we need to hang on to Tanev now, our D group is going to need all the stability it can get and I think with his guaranteed injury rate we just won't get that kind of return. And thats fine, we need him to give us a chance at staying competitive game to game. 

 

 

Jim, I am complete agreement, if the return is not there, we are not giving him away for nothing, but I am hoping he still has 1st round value

[mll]

23 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Jan - PS, Virtanen is a LW.   If Canucks want him to be the player he can ultimately be, they will forget trying to turn him into a right winger.

Green says he's a natural right-winger:  
http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-game-day-avalanche-roll-into-rogers-14-points-up-on-hosts

The right-handed shot plays the right side for obvious reasons and has more shooting options cutting across the slot. “I’ve thought of playing him everywhere, but he’s a natural right-winger,” said Green. “Has it popped into my head? Yeah. But I want Jake to master playing right wing.”

 

He also played mostly RW for the Hitmen.  Someone on HF listed all the starting lineups in his draft+1 - he was always announced on the right side save for one game.  The Hitmen give the position when they list their lines.  Example from his draft year.  He started a few games on LW but then continued on RW: 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

18 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Jan - PS, Virtanen is a LW.   If Canucks want him to be the player he can ultimately be, they will forget trying to turn him into a right winger.

Hey Zepp

 

I remember when he came and they played him at LW.......but man do we have an abundance of LW's

again, if he can't play RW, then we either have to convert one of our prospects to RW or draft one, which admittedly puts us one extra year away, or god shines on us and make Lind a first or 2nd line player........I would take that too......

 

But then what do we do with all out LW's when they all hit their ceiling?.....trade with Phili for Dmen.......maybe Carolina?

 

I am good with that.................

[Crabcakes]

10 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Jim, I am complete agreement, if the return is not there, we are not giving him away for nothing, but I am hoping he still has 1st round value

You agree that u r a nut?  

[Rob_Zepp]

6 minutes ago, mll said:

Green says he's a natural right-winger:  
http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-game-day-avalanche-roll-into-rogers-14-points-up-on-hosts

The right-handed shot plays the right side for obvious reasons and has more shooting options cutting across the slot. “I’ve thought of playing him everywhere, but he’s a natural right-winger,” said Green. “Has it popped into my head? Yeah. But I want Jake to master playing right wing.”

 

He also played mostly RW for the Hitmen.  Someone on HF listed all the starting lineups in his draft+1 - he was always announced on the right side save for one game.  The Hitmen give the position when they list their lines.  Example from his draft year.  He started a few games on LW but then continued on RW: 

 

He is NOT a natural RW.   He has been forced into that a lot of his career but you can see in how he plays and how much more confidently he handles the puck and how much more offensively dangerous he is.   On this one, will disagree with the coaching decisions because you can see it in his game.

[luckylager]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Jan - PS, Virtanen is a LW.   If Canucks want him to be the player he can ultimately be, they will forget trying to turn him into a right winger.

 

52 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He is NOT a natural RW.   He has been forced into that a lot of his career but you can see in how he plays and how much more confidently he handles the puck and how much more offensively dangerous he is.   On this one, will disagree with the coaching decisions because you can see it in his game.

I agree. 

FWIW Jake played LW in bantam. A friend's kid played against him regularly and Jake was unstoppable at that level on the LW. (when he was engaged, had a bad habbit of mailing it in after scoring a few)

 

I also agree he looks more comfortable, dangerous and sees the ice way better on his off wing.

 

Would be great if he could play with that swagger on the right side, and he's definitely improving, but as far as "natural" goes- he's a LW. 

[DADDYROCK]

My only suggestion is try and beef up the defense if we can,

it will be surprizing how our goaltending will solve itself out if we have decent defense.

Do Not go after KARRLSON or anything that ridiculous,

but look at a las vegas type of defense for pointers,no super stars just hard workers and not afraid to actually hit people off the puck.

[JeremyCuddles]

Jake on the left side would be nice, but I think at this point it's clear that's not going to happen. 

 

As for the moves. You want to trade Tanev who is 28, making 4.5 mil, and familiar with the team and replace him with a 32 year old on a proposed 7mil 3 year deal? Why? And before people vomit point totals on me Tanev had 40% Ozone starts. Green had near 55% of his starts in the offensive zone. Tanev gets no PP time, Green got premium PP time in Detroit. All this and Green had 20 more points in 24 more games. The only definitive edge I'd give Green is health. That's not worth paying him 3mil more than what we are paying Tanev. Tanev is the far superior player in my opinion. I won't be able to argue against the health thing though. Tanev is worthless to us if he can't manage at least 70 games, which he has only ever done once.

 

I wouldn't offer Kane 7.5mil. His best statistical season was 57 points. That was 2011/12. Obviously 25-30 goals is great. But for 7.5 mil you better be dropping 60-70+ points. Or be a lockdown defender as well as dropping 50-60 points. People think Draisaitl is overpaid as a 22 year old dropping damn near a PPG. Lol. Kid has 2 70+ point seasons as a 22 year old but is overpaid at 8.5mil. Kane has 0 60+ point seasons as a 26 year old but we'll throw 7.5mil at him? Lockout shortened season he could maybe have had 60+ points but the problem is there are a good many teams/players that had a good year that year and never came close to replicating those stats in a full legitimate season.

 

TLDR offered too many dollars to so-so players, I don't care if we have the money to spend. I'd rather use that cap to take on bad contracts in exchange for added pieces instead of throwing it at "okay" players just to spend it.

[mll]

8 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Jake on the left side would be nice, but I think at this point it's clear that's not going to happen. 

 

As for the moves. You want to trade Tanev who is 28, making 4.5 mil, and familiar with the team and replace him with a 32 year old on a proposed 7mil 3 year deal? Why? And before people vomit point totals on me Tanev had 40% Ozone starts. Green had near 55% of his starts in the offensive zone. Tanev gets no PP time, Green got premium PP time in Detroit. All this and Green had 20 more points in 24 more games. The only definitive edge I'd give Green is health. That's not worth paying him 3mil more than what we are paying Tanev. Tanev is the far superior player in my opinion. I won't be able to argue against the health thing though. Tanev is worthless to us if he can't manage at least 70 games, which he has only ever done once.

 

I wouldn't offer Kane 7.5mil. His best statistical season was 57 points. That was 2011/12. Obviously 25-30 goals is great. But for 7.5 mil you better be dropping 60-70+ points. Or be a lockdown defender as well as dropping 50-60 points. People think Draisaitl is overpaid as a 22 year old dropping damn near a PPG. Lol. Kid has 2 70+ point seasons as a 22 year old but is overpaid at 8.5mil. Kane has 0 60+ point seasons as a 26 year old but we'll throw 7.5mil at him? Lockout shortened season he could maybe have had 60+ points but the problem is there are a good many teams/players that had a good year that year and never came close to replicating those stats in a full legitimate season.

 

TLDR offered too many dollars to so-so players, I don't care if we have the money to spend. I'd rather use that cap to take on bad contracts in exchange for added pieces instead of throwing it at "okay" players just to spend it.

I don't think you have to worry re their presser today.  Sounds like it's going to be a very quiet off-season.  Go with what they have and let competition at camp decide the rest.

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

14 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Jake on the left side would be nice, but I think at this point it's clear that's not going to happen. 

 

As for the moves. You want to trade Tanev who is 28, making 4.5 mil, and familiar with the team and replace him with a 32 year old on a proposed 7mil 3 year deal? Why? And before people vomit point totals on me Tanev had 40% Ozone starts. Green had near 55% of his starts in the offensive zone. Tanev gets no PP time, Green got premium PP time in Detroit. All this and Green had 20 more points in 24 more games. The only definitive edge I'd give Green is health. That's not worth paying him 3mil more than what we are paying Tanev. Tanev is the far superior player in my opinion. I won't be able to argue against the health thing though. Tanev is worthless to us if he can't manage at least 70 games, which he has only ever done once.

 

I wouldn't offer Kane 7.5mil. His best statistical season was 57 points. That was 2011/12. Obviously 25-30 goals is great. But for 7.5 mil you better be dropping 60-70+ points. Or be a lockdown defender as well as dropping 50-60 points. People think Draisaitl is overpaid as a 22 year old dropping damn near a PPG. Lol. Kid has 2 70+ point seasons as a 22 year old but is overpaid at 8.5mil. Kane has 0 60+ point seasons as a 26 year old but we'll throw 7.5mil at him? Lockout shortened season he could maybe have had 60+ points but the problem is there are a good many teams/players that had a good year that year and never came close to replicating those stats in a full legitimate season.

 

TLDR offered too many dollars to so-so players, I don't care if we have the money to spend. I'd rather use that cap to take on bad contracts in exchange for added pieces instead of throwing it at "okay" players just to spend it.

Danny and Hank both have averaged 51 and 53 points respectively the last 3 years...........we paid them $7 million

Hank had 3 goals and they both played PP 1st line

Kane has trended up the last couple of years, and his 6 million dollar contract was signed 4 years ago.....meaning they thought he had that value

I know it sounds like a lot.....

but signing UFA's "can" speed the rebuild up.............he is also 6'2" and 211 lbs and fast............that is what the new NHL is............30 goals this year, 28 last

26 year old UFA..............not 32 year old UFA........This is only to get up bigger and have some meat to protect our younger players

 

No one wanted Kessel............he now has 2 Stanley Cup rings

 

 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Jim, I am complete agreement, if the return is not there, we are not giving him away for nothing, but I am hoping he still has 1st round value

I think he'll have to go injury free for that to happen... its possible. Edler might be more willing to be moved next season tho. 

[6string]

I'd like to see E.Kane here, I can handle parting with Baertschi and most definitley want to send Nilsson packing.

[hammertime]

JB and Linden were pretty clear that character and mentoring will be their target on the UFA market. I think that rules E Kane out. Though I wouldn't be opposed to signing him.

 

Green would be a good option if we cant get Carlsson. 

 

I would really like to see Athanasiou in blue and green if somehow his RFA negotiations sour in Detroit. I would happily swap them say Baertschi who would fit quite well in Detroit.

 

Athanasiou Virtanen Bo carrying the cow pie up ice in our top 9 would have D hanging way back.

 

Enough pie in the sky.

realistically I could see JB rolling with re signing Vanek and grabbing say Rilley Nash. Standing pat on D.

 

If I had my way and nothing else mattered I would pay the 7.5 for Carlsson and go after Stastney.

[PhillipBlunt]

14 minutes ago, hammertime said:

JB and Linden were pretty clear that character and mentoring will be their target on the UFA market. I think that rules E Kane out. Though I wouldn't be opposed to signing him.

 

Green would be a good option if we cant get Carlsson. 

 

I would really like to see Athanasiou in blue and green if somehow his RFA negotiations sour in Detroit. I would happily swap them say Baertschi who would fit quite well in Detroit.

 

Athanasiou Virtanen Bo carrying the cow pie up ice in our top 9 would have D hanging way back.

 

Enough pie in the sky.

realistically I could see JB rolling with re signing Vanek and grabbing say Rilley Nash. Standing pat on D.

 

If I had my way and nothing else mattered I would pay the 7.5 for Carlsson and go after Stastney.

I don't think Kane has been ruled out at all. If he is available come July, and is gung ho about coming to Vancouver, Benning will make a play for him.

 

He's far too talented of a player not to go after. Look at how he's positively impacted the Sharks. They welcomed him with open arms and made it known that they wanted him there.

 

Has he made any silly tweets since then? Nope.

Has he gotten into trouble in Northern California? Nope.

 

Management can talk all they want about character, but teams that make it to the Finals don't get there on good intentions and honor badges. They get there because they are the best team in the league, regardless of how spotless the souls on the roster are.

[hammertime]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I don't think Kane has been ruled out at all. If he is available come July, and is gung ho about coming to Vancouver, Benning will make a play for him.

 

He's far too talented of a player not to go after. Look at how he's positively impacted the Sharks. They welcomed him with open arms and made it known that they wanted him there.

 

Has he made any silly tweets since then? Nope.

Has he gotten into trouble in Northern California? Nope.

 

Management can talk all they want about character, but teams that make it to the Finals don't get there on good intentions and honor badges. They get there because they are the best team in the league, regardless of how spotless the souls on the roster are.

I have been championing signing Kane this offseason for like 3 years now. I'm still not against it. I just feel it is doubtful. I also thought the Sedins would come back for one last season. Shows how much I know.  

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I don't think Kane has been ruled out at all. If he is available come July, and is gung ho about coming to Vancouver, Benning will make a play for him.

 

He's far too talented of a player not to go after. Look at how he's positively impacted the Sharks. They welcomed him with open arms and made it known that they wanted him there.

 

Has he made any silly tweets since then? Nope.

Has he gotten into trouble in Northern California? Nope.

 

Management can talk all they want about character, but teams that make it to the Finals don't get there on good intentions and honor badges. They get there because they are the best team in the league, regardless of how spotless the souls on the roster are.

Linden didn't say the team would be 14 mil under the cap, he said very likely a few mil. So to me that says they are thinking about 1 or 2 depth free agents of some kind in all likelihood. Do they spend 7-8 on Kane or Carlson and leave everything else as is if one of those two want to come here? Sure but I just don't see Carlson coming here. If Kane has a good meeting with Green and likes what he see's in the youth sure why not?