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Improving the Defence


brokensticks

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2 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

A first round pick (even if its in the 17-25 range) and one of a teams top defensive prospects is extremely high value for ANY 29 year-old player especially an injury prone one-dimensional defenseman.

Just because a guy is the Leaf’s top D prospect doesn’t make him good, or potentially good.  What makes Dumont better than what we have?  We will take the Leaf’s first, and two seconds.  They can keep their crap. 

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our D is pretty vanilla with a bunch of glorified 3rd pair guys 

 

personally id like to see a complete a over haul on d 

 

edler-tanev

del zotto-stecher

hutton-gudbranson 

pouliot-biega

 

We ABSOLUTELY can’t come back with the same 8 guys and I’d like to think that juolevi will be playing in the top 6 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Just because a guy is the Leaf’s top D prospect doesn’t make him good, or potentially good.  What makes Dumont better than what we have?  We will take the Leaf’s first, and two seconds.  They can keep their crap. 

Well DERMOTT outscored half of the CURRENT Canucks D in just 37 games and is only 20 years old.

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OP, you put Juolevi way too high, and Sautner way too low on your list.  Swap those two and you have it right.  

 

Pouliot is our project now and I want to see him playing a full season next year.  D-men take a lot longer to mature then forwards.  

 

 

36 minutes ago, wildcam said:

OMG sure hope Tryamkin 6'7, 265 lbs start to add very tough edge to his game, fighting Jamie Benn..

This would be just the player we need on D.. We had this guy so defence would look so much better and he is only 23 yrs old..

Tryamkin is NOT a fighter.  He is tough to play against and throws some big hits on some big guys in the NHL.  Agreed though, can't wait for him to come back.  He has one more year on his KHL deal, so I think that we will see him here in 2020.

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15 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

A first round pick (even if its in the 17-25 range) and one of a teams top defensive prospects is extremely high value for ANY 29 year-old player especially an injury prone one-dimensional defenseman.

Yeah I don't think that Tanev will fetch us that much to be honest.  I'd be happy with a 1st and a 4th round pick.  Doubt we'd be getting a good prospect thrown in.

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If only the hockey gods could repay us for the years of suffering and undeserved disrespect at the hands of the sedins, by Tryamkin returning and winning the draft lottery and drafting Dahlin.

 

Dahlin Tryamkin

Edler Stecher

Gudbranson Juolevi

Pouliot Biega 

 

Tanev, Del Zotto and Hutton traded

 

and the rest of our young D in Utica/ other minor leagues.

 

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30 minutes ago, billabong said:

our D is pretty vanilla with a bunch of glorified 3rd pair guys 

 

personally id like to see a complete a over haul on d 

 

edler-tanev

del zotto-stecher

hutton-gudbranson 

pouliot-biega

 

We ABSOLUTELY can’t come back with the same 8 guys and I’d like to think that juolevi will be playing in the top 6 

 

 

 

 

disagree. At least 4 of those players have yet to hit their prime. After seeing how much self awareness and character Stecher and Hutton have, I’m willing to bet both take positive steps forward next year. 

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2 hours ago, buddyguy said:

Canucks are high on Noah Dobson. He's likely the guy we get unless we win the lottery lol.

I’ve heard that as well... and am one of the few that agree with the ranking. 

 

Dobson is going to be a mobile 30 minute, all situational 8-14 goal, 40-50 point Dman in the mold of Alex Pieterangelo. 

 

I do love me some Hughes tho... so entertaining that I would be happy with the pick, but he’s also a specialty Dman and needs the right partner to even out his game.  As Bob Mackenzie says “he’s more of a rover than a defensman”.

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In their own end they need to stop chasing behind the net so often, especially both at the same time.  You learn this in peewee, but I see it, constantly.  The D also need higher pressure from the forwards, as D is a whole team effort.

 

They need to have more confidence in carrying the puck.  And get that puck up the ice with their feet more often than off the glass or risk a pass up the middle.


And in the offensive zone, they need to just get shots.  I don't care what kind of shots.  Quick flippers in the feet of those in front will generate goals.  This obsession with finding seams and the puck going wide as a result drives me crazy. 

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1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Tryamkin is NOT a fighter.  He is tough to play against and throws some big hits on some big guys in the NHL.  Agreed though, can't wait for him to come back.  He has one more year on his KHL deal, so I think that we will see him here in 2020.

His GM has said that he can come back to the NHL any time.

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2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Tryamkin plays the right side.  Plus, our D would look better if our goalies stopped letting in weak goals. 

To be fair our goalies and D suck equally, and Tryamkin is currently not on our team

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54 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

If only the hockey gods could repay us for the years of suffering and undeserved disrespect at the hands of the sedins, by Tryamkin returning and winning the draft lottery and drafting Dahlin.

 

Dahlin Tryamkin

Edler Stecher

Gudbranson Juolevi

Pouliot Biega 

 

Tanev, Del Zotto and Hutton traded

 

and the rest of our young D in Utica/ other minor leagues.

 

I don't know if the hockey gods even know where Vancouver is?

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This is, by far, the most difficult area of the roster to plan for.  JB has his work cut out for him. 

 

Trading Tanev or Hutton both feel like selling low.  Edler isn’t going anywhere.  Neither is Guddy.  Del Zotto played so much I can’t see them trading him before the deadline. Stecher has established himself, IMO. Pouliot (and Hutton) still have the biggest upsides.  Juolevi should be knocking next year as with Sautner / McEneny.

 

But as a group it isn't good enough at either end of the ice.  

 

As it stands:

 

Edler-Gudbranson

Del Zotto-Tanev

Pouliot-Stecher

Hutton-Biega

 

Really, we need to play the long game here and set the table for Juolevi and this year’s first.  

 

Maybe sign De Haan to stabilize the swashbuckling left side of MDZ/Hutton/Pouliot and move on from Hutton.  

 

Edler-Guddy

De Haan-Tanev

MDZ-Stecher 

 

Look to move MDZ at the deadline if Juolevi is ready to step in.

 

Tanev gets moved at the deadline or in the offseason hoping he’s had a bounce back year and our 1st this year is ready to crack the roster.  

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1 hour ago, brokensticks said:

Up for discussion, our depth chart (and potential line-up for next year) looks like this:

 

LEFT                    RIGHT

Edler                   Tanev

Del Zotto             Stetcher

Juolevi                Gudbranson

Puoliot                Biega

Hutton                Chatfield

McEneny

Brisebois

Sautner

Tryamkin???

 

As one of the teams with the lowest points from the back end and near the bottom of the league in goals against, this is definitely an area that needs some immediate attention, especially some depth on the right side.

Drafting some right shot prospects is a priority but will not fill the immediate need.

The talk of trading Tanev has some merit considering his potential value and injury history but it only makes the need for a right hand replacement a greater priority.

The best free agent is John Carlson, 53 points last year and shoots right but his cost will be high if he even agrees to come to a west coast, bottom of the league team.

It would be good to get some of the younger guys in the lineup but that means clearing out some of the marginal players on the left side (Hutton, Puoliot) to make room for some of the younger players (Juolevi, McEneny, Brisebois).

My wishlist: trade Tanev, Hutton and Puoliot for draft choices and sign Carlson.

I think our defense needs a complete facelift. 

That list is long but it's hard to say any of them are long-term solutions.

Rumor has it, JB is very interested in Brady Tkachuk. If we do end up in position to grab him, it would seem JB is willing to wait a bit more before turning his attention to our blueline. 

As I see it, the only option left is to acquire one through free agency and trades.

One potential ufa I'm interested in is Ian Cole. He's defensively responsible, can put up decent numbers, plays a physical game, and should be affordable.

I also see the potential for a trade with Toronto.

One prospect I've had my eyes on for awhile now is Andrew Nielson. He's also big, physical and plays a good two-way game. 

 

I could see something like:

Brandon Sutter and Chris Tanev, and Ben Hutton for Matt Martin, Andrew Nielson, and their 1st rounder 2018.

 

Now for a crazy idea.

Olli Juolevi to Chicago for Brent Seabrook (1.875 annual retention) and their 1st rnd pick 2018 (as long as it's not 1st overall).

Yes, we give up Juolevi, but Chicago's not giving up a first rounder without a decent return; even with dropping Seabrook's contract.

I am not sold on Juolevi and, in this case, see him as expendable. There are defensemen in this draft I want.

 

Our defense for next year:

Edler                         Seabrook

Cole                          Stetcher

Sautner/Nielson        Gudbranson

Biega 

 

Toronto has a lot of ufa's coming up. I see, both, Tanev and Sutter as immediate upgrades to their team while Hutton gets a chance to reboot and prove to them he belongs.

Chicago's in trouble. They need to dump salary. They also have two first rounders this year, but I'm not taking the lower one. This is a chance for them to dump salary and get a good prospect and let's face it, on our blueline, Seabrook's an upgrade.

Both Cole and Seabrook will need to be sold on the prospect of becoming Canucks. In both cases, Benning must sell his vision for the near future and how important they are to that vision. If done properly, I see both willing to come here.

 

With our 3 picks we take, Brady Tkachuk (assuming we're in position), Bode Wilde, and K'Andre Miller.

 

2020 defense:

Cole                           Wilde

Miller                          Seabrook

Nielson                       Gudbranson

Sautner 

 

Obviously, if JB were to attempt something like this, there would be a lot more moving parts but it gets across the type of defense I want to see here. 

 

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I think one of those dman if not 2 are gone by opening night. At least I hope so. I don't like the way it's organized.

 

Overall it's small/soft, there's no shot back there, and no real puck mover.

 

MDZ might be moved at the deadline. I think they will give OJ every oppurtunity to make the team next year.

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My problem with this defense is I like to many of these guys. Realistically we might have 2-3 of these guys during any sustained success. Issue is I like these guys to much lol. I love Pouliot's upside and have been a fan since his whl days.  Then you got Stech a local kid who I am a huge fan of.  Guddy I like his physicality. Tanev I can do without him but I love his smooth smart play. Then you got hutton you're like man if he could only harrness that. Then you MDZ throwing his body like a wrecking ball at all players. Then steady eddie crushing guys in the boards and stopping key players.  Issue is I liked these guys to much.  But if we want to get better some of these guys need to be parted with.

 

Edler I feel is a must keep to stabilize the D. Gudbranson I feel might be a requirement if we plan on hitting the postseason soon. Stech hard on the puck, gives it 100% every shift, and is often our best d at transitioning the puck.  If I could part with two it would be Tanev and Hutton.  But I am very curious what a fit and physically dominate hutton could look like. What if hutton comes back like a boss and can fill that physical role on D that gudbranson does.  Then pouliot is just an enigma.  He can play be amazing but often hes quiet, steady, and transitions the play. but we need offense and unfortunately, that is expected from him more than others.  

 

Does anyone else have bias because they love these guys?  It's not like we got a ton in the system waiting for us.  we really need a d man bad. Free agency is expensive and the assets typically lose most of their value at the end of their term.  :( draft maybe? but dahlin might be the only nhl ready unless Dobson or Bouchard have amazing offseasons and can push.  Olli be here soon which is great but we can't expect him to be a top 4 cornerstone in his first season...  Gudbranson healthy could be a great add. he's had nothing but injuries since coming here. be nice to see him at 100% but does he fit the system?  I dont know ladies and gents. I love the players but hate the results of this group.  I know will learn to love others but I hope stech stays out of all of them.

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1 hour ago, xereau said:

His GM has said that he can come back to the NHL any time.

his GM in russia?  Tryamkin instantly transforms our D from soft to effective.  He deserves top 4 minutes imo.  He probably should of had more ice time when he was here. Willie didnt want to give him any though.

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3 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Jesus, how do you fix that mess?

 

Like 9 of those guys should be in the  AHL.  :wacko:  Tryamkin isn't coming back.  So, that means we need at least 2 left and 2 right (NHL caliber) D-men to appear out of nowhere.

A better source than you - ie a team-mate of his in the KHL - indicates otherwise.

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