[Article] Baertschi, Granlund thrown lifeline to shore up their games - Kuzma

[ilduce39]

I’m bullish on Baer.  He wasn’t “gifted” prime minutes, he earned them.  

 

I think he goes from 45 to 55 point average over the next 2 years which is great 2nd line production.

 

I like Granny but he needs to generate a little more offense even if he’s a good defensive guy.  We know he can - will be interesting to see if he pulls it off.  

[Rob_Zepp]

9 minutes ago, oldnews said:

It's called a transition.

[J.I.A.H.N]

10 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Do you honestly believe other GM's are clueless to what players are doing in the league? Benning could have said, "Granlund was great with the Sedins. He's a future top line player". Somehow I doubt other GM's are going to buy it based on this past season.

 

As far as I'm concerned all Benning did was say they're getting new contracts but they best be working their tales off in the offseason and come back better.

Well, yes that is what he said.....

 

But, you don't have to say, hey if they don't cut it we are going to sell them off at all time low prices

 

So, ok, in private he tells their agents....to get going

Publically he says that they had different roles and played injured all year....mostly true, but can still have that convo

 

Instead of saying it was just lack of great play when they were not injured.......

 

Baggins, I may not be explaining myself as well as I need, but Benning doesn't need to put it out in the open...

 

What purpose does it serve? Do you think hearing it publically will send them the message better? Really?

[erkayloomeh]

Bear is only worth 1.85 ? 

Seems a little low for his current play.

 

I have no problem with JB pushing players like this but don't do it to pay less than market value.

 

[xereau]

6 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

Bear is only worth 1.85 ? 

Seems a little low for his current play.

 

I have no problem with JB pushing players like this but don't do it to pay less than market value.

 

Jim holds most of the cards with Baer being RFA still.

[-AJ-]

I'm fine with keeping jobs open for competition, but to me, Baer was on another level last year compared to Granny. Granny has decent defense, but almost no offense. Granlund scored at 0.23 points-per-game this last year--half of what he did the prior year. Baertschi scored at 0.55 points-per-game, setting a career best. Why are they in the same category? Baertschi scores literally over twice as many points and just had his best offensive season. Granlund had a major setback year offensively. His defense trumps Baer's, but Baertschi ties or beats him in every other category IMO.

[Baggins]

29 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well, yes that is what he said.....

 

But, you don't have to say, hey if they don't cut it we are going to sell them off at all time low prices

 

So, ok, in private he tells their agents....to get going

Publically he says that they had different roles and played injured all year....mostly true, but can still have that convo

 

Instead of saying it was just lack of great play when they were not injured.......

 

Baggins, I may not be explaining myself as well as I need, but Benning doesn't need to put it out in the open...

 

What purpose does it serve? Do you think hearing it publically will send them the message better? Really?

Calling a player out publicly is motivational. It either lights a fire under them or you see they don't have it in them. These guys are veterans now and should get it. Either way it doesn't affect their trade value. Their performance this season set that. Their performance next season will reset it.

[AK_19]

Baertschi lacks the upside to be in our top 6 long term. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Calling a player out publicly is motivational. It either lights a fire under them or you see they don't have it in them. These guys are veterans now and should get it. Either way it doesn't affect their trade value. Their performance this season set that. Their performance next season will reset it.

No, I think you are thinking if they have played a bad game or something and the coach is pissed.......I think the GM saying it in public is bloody silly. That kind of thinking probably had something to do with Tryamkin going home........they are adults........and that is old school thinking. Do you want another asset walking away from us?

 

I tell you what, next time you are arguing with your wife or girl friend or other half.......just go out to the road and yell at them and say.......if you don't get in shape, your out Alice.......good luck with that!

 

Much better to talk about it inside and quietly.........you know, like adults!

[Gaudette Celly]

47 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

But, you don't have to say, hey if they don't cut it we are going to sell them off at all time low prices

 

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

That kind of thinking probably had something to do with Tryamkin going home........they are adults........and that is old school thinking. Do you want another asset walking away from us?

[samurai]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

No Samurai that is not the point............Benning should not be putting that out in the media, because he does not know what will happen in 6 months or even 3 months.......things change rapidly.........so how do you sell a asset at the best price if you first tell the buyer that it has a hole in it?

 

 

Each team more or less does their own homework before they trade.  Benning isn't saying anything that any other team doesnt know.   If guys like Sven can't make our team than the reasons are pretty obvious and so is their value.    You won't make many trades in this league if you trade damaged goods either.  GM's for the most part try to be transparent and fair as possible.  The Leispic trade is an example of a GM doing us a favor because of the relationship McPhee and Benning have.

[RWMc1]

“They have a lot to prove and I expect them to rebound from where they were at.”

 

I guess everyone missed that part of the quote.

[theo5789]

I think Baertschi was proving himself this past season and we may still not have seen the best of him yet. He was on pace for 45 points and often he wasn't even playing with Horvat and Boeser. He made the 2nd PP unit dangerous along with Vanek. The puck to the face was unfortunate, but the shoulder injury could be a concern. I like that Baertschi doesn't shy away from physical play and he is defensively responsible. I want to see Baertschi get to the 50-60 point range, but I also wouldn't mind if he upped his defensive game and takes some PK time which would allow him to be a third liner still if even a higher offensive prospect steps up.

 

Granlund is a good utility player. Replaceable sure, but I'd like to sign him long term on a cheap contract. I think he will become one of those bargain guys and I get the feeling he's one of those guys that will be impressive in the playoffs when we make it back there eventually. I'd like to see Granlund improve on his faceoffs because even as a winger, he will be called upon to take draws occasionally and on a shutdown line, it would be a big benefit.

 

With that said, it is important that these players do not get comfortable and that they should know someone is always looking to take their spots.

[Brovat]

25 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

No, I think you are thinking if they have played a bad game or something and the coach is pissed.......I think the GM saying it in public is bloody silly. That kind of thinking probably had something to do with Tryamkin going home........they are adults........and that is old school thinking. Do you want another asset walking away from us?

 

I tell you what, next time you are arguing with your wife or girl friend or other half.......just go out to the road and yell at them and say.......if you don't get in shape, your out Alice.......good luck with that!

 

Much better to talk about it inside and quietly.........you know, like adults!

 

My wife doesn’t make a million bucks and over to play hockey. If she did I’d probably pass on her because she would then be a man. 

 

I don’t care about Trymakin at all. He can go home and cry. 

[Quantum]

Honestly, if the Canucks can flip Baertschi for a 2nd, that'll be good.

 

I like Granlund. He's a very versatile player. Good in both the top and bottom six. Rather have him here for another year or two over Baertschi.

 

I have a feeling if Baertschi stays next season, he'll get pushed off the roster in favor of the younger guys like Pettersson, Gaudette, Dahlen, and dare I say it -- Jasek?!?

[Phil_314]

4 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

You see.....I love Benning, but this is where he gets in trouble.....

You just don't put quotes out there like that...........devalues the player.......

Stats are one thing, but how do you really feel Jim?

Even if they're traded at the draft for a pick, you think something that they said to reporters in a long off-season esp. about hoping to see them prove their potential would affect how other GM's view a player?  If they want them they'll try to get them.

 

If they were quoted as being a locker room cancer then that's one thing.  Quotes about show-me years for RFA players seems pretty run of the mill.  Probably rinse and repeat around training camp time if anything.    

[cuporbust]

LOVE these comments from Benning. Baer is totally the type that needs to be pushed .pre then once it took healthy scratches to get him going . Some guys don't respond to being pressured ; Baer is one that does . Granlund .....we will see. Love that he is being tough about it . Crystal clear message . 

[Tomato Pajamas]

5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

You see.....I love Benning, but this is where he gets in trouble.....

 

You just don't put quotes out there like that...........devalues the player.......

 

Stats are one thing, but how do you really feel Jim?

He didn't say anything that we weren't thinking. If Granny and Baer are going to be key pieces in this team going forward, they're going to have to show it. 

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

No, I think you are thinking if they have played a bad game or something and the coach is pissed.......I think the GM saying it in public is bloody silly. That kind of thinking probably had something to do with Tryamkin going home........they are adults........and that is old school thinking. Do you want another asset walking away from us?

 

I tell you what, next time you are arguing with your wife or girl friend or other half.......just go out to the road and yell at them and say.......if you don't get in shape, your out Alice.......good luck with that!

 

Much better to talk about it inside and quietly.........you know, like adults!

Tryamkin went home because he's a big self centered baby. It will separate the men from the boys.

 

I don't pay my wife or girlfriend a million or more a year to do a job.

[JamesB]

6 hours ago, Provost said:

It is completely fair to say Baertschi has gotten a lot of prime minutes with lots of PP times and with the most talented linemates we could give him.  His production is "ok", but barring a big jump this year we shouldn't have a 1st liner who gets 40 points.  Those are fringe 2nd line numbers.  If he has a season playing with Horvat and Boeser and doesn't crack 60 points, then it is time for those development minutes to go to a fresh face.

Granlund I am not sure about.  Aside from one stellar year, he has been pretty much what he is, a 3rd liner who can be used in various situations but is eminently replaceable.  
 

 

6 hours ago, stonecoldstevebernier said:

I'm of the same mind. [Baertischi] Would've had back to back 20 goal seasons if not for the injuries. People can speak to offensive opportunity but its not like Bo himself is setting the world on fire yet, he's still improving and the two have shown good chemistry. I'd like to keep Baertschi around and see if the two can keep growing together.

My read is similar to Provost, but with a somewhat different slant. First, it is true that Baertschi has "fringe 2nd line numbers" for past two seasons. However, anyone who can put up second line numbers, even at a fringe level, is a valuable player (provided his defence does not hurt the team). Getting legitimate top 6 forwards is not easy and they normally get paid pretty well -- more than what Baertschi is getting.

 

I don't see why Baertschi should need to crack 60 pts to justify playing with Horvat or Boeser. I like Horvat and Boeser a lot (who doesn't), but neither of them has cracked 60 pts yet. And, unlike Boeser and Horvat, Baertschi was not on the first unit PP this season. So my view is similar to stonecoldsteve.

 

I also want to comment on the widespread view that Granlund had a "stellar year" in 2016-17. I  don't think that is right. In 69 games, playing mostly with the Sedins, he had 19 goals and 13 assists for 32 pts, and 7 of those pts were on the PP, so he had 25 pts 5-on-5. Those are not even fringe second line numbers. And his +/- was -19, which is, frankly, very poor considering that his minutes were pretty soft that year. Of course, his relatively high goal total, his low assist total and his poor +/- numbers are all due in part to playing a lot with the Sedins. He also did not contribute much to the physical game and, although he is a decent skater, he is not particularly fast. I think his 2016-17 season was long way from stellar.  He was in the top 6 because his competition was mainly guys like Megna, Chaput, and other NHL-AHL tweeners. (I admit that he also beat out Eriksson for that spot but that was not exactly a high bar.)

 

So I see a big difference between Baertschi and Granlund. Baertschi is a legitimate NHL player who would find a spot in the line-up even on a good team. I don't think Granlund would.