[Proposal] Trading For 1rst Round Picks

[dura_mater]

22 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

They have that nice new arena they are building in Ottawa and they will want to re-sign Karlsson, they have an elephant of a contract to unload in Ryan and another with Gabrik. They lost money this year and will need some younger inexpensive players that can score the odd goal, just as examples, Goldy and Granlund would help there immediately. They have been a internal cap team until the playoff run last year. They may feel that their 1rst round pick this year is worth 7.25 mil over the next 4 years. Or both that saving over 12 mil is worth more than just one 1rst round pick.

 

This team is rebuilding and having 1rst round picks in the top ten would go miles in building a better team.

 

The team won more than a few games without many players that were off injured, but even with those players in the line up the team was barely a playoff contender.

 

Who would you rather have, Sven, Granlund, Goldy, Leipsic.... or maybe a Zadina, Svechnikov, Tkachuk, Bouchard or Dobson, maybe even a Dahlin? If a deal was done there might be two of those this year or two 1rst's next year.

 

Re-building is so much concerned with getting to the playoffs in one year and with the loss of 150+ points next year will be a struggle.

 

The players on this team for the last 3 years have never been on a winning team in the NHL, they have been roster fillers and this team is only starting to see if the prospects are NHL capable, they should not stop trying to load up on top draft picks.

 

 

That's like asking if you'd rather have $1,000 or $1,000,000.

But you're also suggesting they trade Virtanen and/or OJ... isn't it counter-productive to load up on draft picks if you're going to trade the player a year or two later?
 

 

[goalie13]

23 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

New York Islanders, they need to show Taveras that they are seriously trying to improve to help him decide to stay, they have 2 1rst round picks this year, their own and Calgary's, either of which is a good top ten pick regardless of the lottery.

Calgary's pick is currently 12th.

[TheGuardian_]

First off this is fantasy stuff.

 

Second I have had back injuries and have had a similar type injury to Brock's, so as one poster suggested I should research it, been there, done that and I will tell you there are lingering effects that get worse, numbness in the arm or legs, tingling in the feet, sudden shooting pains and the occasional what I call "white pain", that's when for a split second the pain is so intense my vision goes white, but then it subsides just as quickly.

 

FYI, this isn't a constant issue, it comes and goes, but then I am no longer an athlete but when I was much more athletic and playing hockey the more stress the more issues. To this day the outside of my right leg is mostly numb.

 

Edler stated that after his back injury he knows he would be playing in pain the rest of his career.

 

15 hours ago, bp79 said:

Brocks injury is not the type that is going to be chronic. Do a little research before you make a thread. The Canucks are a few pieces away from being competitive. Giving up all the players we have spent time developing just leads to perpetual losing. IE the Yotes model. I for one am tired of being a fan of the draft. it's time to take our pick this year draft one more hopefully top 6 pick and go out and try to acquire the right mix of players that will be free agents in the next few years.

 

What is the point of amassing all these picks only to toil in the bottom for another 5 years? You can"t win with  20-year-olds leading your team. You need a mix of young plus depth and experience.

After this draft, we should have one of the best prospect pools in Hockey. Time to start putting an emphasis on winning. Unless you like watching nothing games for 75% of the year?

I am hopeful that the next two years end the need to draft in the top ten.

Watching the playoffs this team needs to get bigger, the speed is there.

 

I have suggested Virtanen as a trade asset not because I don't like him, I don't think the team has let him play his game, I think they are still trying to put the square peg in the round hole, they should think of his size as an addition to his speed rather than the other way around, he is one of the fastest skaters on the team, he does have size which he uses and he has a wicked wrist shot. BUT if the team won't use him in a top six role then they should move him before he loses the "possibility" of being a top six player in the eyes of other teams. It is hard to ask for a top level asset if his own team isn't rating him as an top level player and that is where he is on this team.

 

As far as watching nothing games, most fans are so used to it now they see greatness in a 4 point improvement and a bunch of players that couldn't make the teams that drafted them after 3 or 4 years of trying. As is demonstrated by this team young does not mean good.

 

The teams I listed as possible trade partners for a first round pick all have some possible reason to accept. Especially Ottawa, Edmonton and NYI.

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, dura_mater said:

That's like asking if you'd rather have $1,000 or $1,000,000.

But you're also suggesting they trade Virtanen and/or OJ... isn't it counter-productive to load up on draft picks if you're going to trade the player a year or two later?
 

 

The thousands for millions with regards to Montreal or Ottawa, sure but the players mentioned have played in the NHL now, no matter how good the team was and both those teams have depleted prospect pools and will need decent roster fillers until they draft or trade for improvement.

 

I don't think moving OJ is giving up on him, I do think it is maximizing his perceived asset value, while dmen often take longer to develop he is further behind than most others and looks to be another Gudbranson, a dman, but taken much to high in the draft, so move him before it is proven that he isn't the player the Canucks hoped for.

[Wilbur]

14 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Tanev could lead to a mid-late round pick in the first given the fact sooo many teams are showing a need for a true top 4 shut down guy.    I don't think Edler would give that return.   

It's interesting, Eastern media has been talking down Tanev's value in the last week or two, that he probably won't yield a first anymore.  Heh, the conspiracy theorist in me tells me that Benning has put him on the block somewhat.

[Rob_Zepp]

28 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

It's interesting, Eastern media has been talking down Tanev's value in the last week or two, that he probably won't yield a first anymore.  Heh, the conspiracy theorist in me tells me that Benning has put him on the block somewhat.

Hadn't seen that article(s).   I am not hearing that at all.   I am hearing the opposite - how much he would be making a different for Leafs, Flyers and even the Caps in their respective series.   Darkhorse is Rangers who are on a quick rebuild program.    Wouldn't even be shocked to see Ottawa look for a guy for EK to pair with if they could sort out the off-hand.

[Wilbur]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Hadn't seen that article(s).   I am not hearing that at all.   I am hearing the opposite - how much he would be making a different for Leafs, Flyers and even the Caps in their respective series.   Darkhorse is Rangers who are on a quick rebuild program.    Wouldn't even be shocked to see Ottawa look for a guy for EK to pair with if they could sort out the off-hand.

It's been Mackenzie and (I believe) Lebrun on the radio, nothing written.  Granted they could be feeding off the radio's negative energy here that believes Benning couldn't manage an asset to save his life.

[Rob_Zepp]

2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

It's been Mackenzie and (I believe) Lebrun on the radio, nothing written.  Granted they could be feeding off the radio's negative energy here that believes Benning couldn't manage an asset to save his life.

Interesting.   I wonder what asset they feel he hasn't managed to give them that perspective?   Hansen?  Burrows?  Boeser?   Horvat?    I know Lebrun is a huge fan of Guddy so not sure who they would be using as an example.    Perhaps they didn't like how JB handled Sedins?

[TheGuardian_]

36 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Interesting.   I wonder what asset they feel he hasn't managed to give them that perspective?   Hansen?  Burrows?  Boeser?   Horvat?    I know Lebrun is a huge fan of Guddy so not sure who they would be using as an example.    Perhaps they didn't like how JB handled Sedins?

Button , I don't think there is a team, player or organization that he ever says anything negative about, a true salesman.

 

As far as asset management....... the mountain is Eriksson, then Gudbranson. Eriksson is clearly a good bottom six checker being paid top line money with a horrible contract structure, Gudbranson just isn't a top 3 dman or even that much of a "deterrent"  and again being paid top 4 money, Tryamkin still has more "corrections" than he does. 60 games in 2 years. There might still be some residue over the Hamhuis guffaw or even trading away Bonino and package, His cap management has been horrible, spending to the cap every year on a bottom team and handcuffing the team for trading bad contracts for picks.

The Sedin thing could be a factor but not very likely and at this point is now a non topic really.

[dura_mater]

12 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

The thousands for millions with regards to Montreal or Ottawa, sure but the players mentioned have played in the NHL now, no matter how good the team was and both those teams have depleted prospect pools and will need decent roster fillers until they draft or trade for improvement.

 

I don't think moving OJ is giving up on him, I do think it is maximizing his perceived asset value, while dmen often take longer to develop he is further behind than most others and looks to be another Gudbranson, a dman, but taken much to high in the draft, so move him before it is proven that he isn't the player the Canucks hoped for.

My $1,000 vs $1,000,000 comment wasn't regarding Montreal or Ottawa; it was in regards to your who would you rather have question.  Asking if you'd rather have Baertschi vs Svechnikov is like asking if you'd rather have a Porsche or Hyundai.

Neither yourself or I said trading OJ would be giving up on him.  I was referring to the comment you made that we need to load up on draft picks but then also state we could trade OJ or Virtanen.  Doesn't that kind of contradict what you're saying?  On one hand we need to stockpile draft picks but then you're advocating trading those draft picks a couple years later?  

Or maybe I misread what you wrote and you're suggesting specifically stockpiling TOP draft picks?  In which case it could make sense to trade guys like Juolevi and Virtanen for top picks specifically.  I'd still prefer not to trade either.  I'm a fan of both players but I'm not sure Juolevi's stock is at an all time high and definitely not Virtanens so I'm not sure we'd be selling high on either.

[Rush17]

The Rangers have 3 firsts. Maybe we can trade a top 3 pick + a Baer for all 3 (depending on their range)

[Rush17]

3 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

The Rangers have 3 firsts. Maybe we can trade a top 3 pick + a Baer for all 3 (depending on their range)

Nvm Rangers are right behind us at 8. Unless our pick jumps.  

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, dura_mater said:

My $1,000 vs $1,000,000 comment wasn't regarding Montreal or Ottawa; it was in regards to your who would you rather have question.  Asking if you'd rather have Baertschi vs Svechnikov is like asking if you'd rather have a Porsche or Hyundai.

Neither yourself or I said trading OJ would be giving up on him.  I was referring to the comment you made that we need to load up on draft picks but then also state we could trade OJ or Virtanen.  Doesn't that kind of contradict what you're saying?  On one hand we need to stockpile draft picks but then you're advocating trading those draft picks a couple years later?  

Or maybe I misread what you wrote and you're suggesting specifically stockpiling TOP draft picks?  In which case it could make sense to trade guys like Juolevi and Virtanen for top picks specifically.  I'd still prefer not to trade either.  I'm a fan of both players but I'm not sure Juolevi's stock is at an all time high and definitely not Virtanens so I'm not sure we'd be selling high on either.

Ive commented on some of the Gaurdians hopes to get draft picks too, I think the only trades Benning might make will only happen if it's better for the team, Juolevi won't go anywhere until they give up on him, which won't happen until he's had at least a couple NHL seasons under his belt.  JV was looking real good at the end of the year so hopefully that continues.

 

Nobody is 100% safe at this point, particularly because he might trade a core forward to get a core defenseman, but I don't see that happening soon, maybe if Gaudette and Pettersson excel.

[TheGuardian_]

Identifying a future core on this team right now is difficult in the extreme.

This team has not been good enough to rank players against each other to identify a future core. Being in the top 6 on this team is not the same as being the top 6 on a second round playoff team.

[IBatch]

41 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Identifying a future core on this team right now is difficult in the extreme.

This team has not been good enough to rank players against each other to identify a future core. Being in the top 6 on this team is not the same as being the top 6 on a second round playoff team.

Except for Vegas, who would have known Tuch and Karlsson would blow up like that.  At the start Neal was their only proven producer upfront, and Fluery in net and a pile of 4-7 defenseman that have proven their value particularly Theodore and Schmidt.  But I agree 100%, aside from Horvat and Boeser our entire top nine is nothing special.

[komodo0921]

Benning said in a TDL interview that add ing another first rounder before the draft is something he'd be pursuing but, given our available assets, it's tough to see any possibilities.

Tanev is our biggest chip, but with his history of injuries and inability to play a full season, Tanev's value is limited.

Gudbranson is now locked up but; Is his payday too rich to garner interest?

Edler could be a good option if he were willing to waive, but it seems he's here until the end.

Most of our RFA's have yet to establish themselves as NHLers with the one possible exception being Baertschi who may be of interest to other teams.

Sutter is another interesting player that could be of interest to a contender in need of center depth. 

Benning is, rightfully, reluctant to discuss prospects as part of any dealings as we are trying to collect them and not shed them.

Eriksson anyone? Seriously; Anyone?

This makes my list of realistic pieces being Tanev, Sutter, Baertschi, Gagne, Del Zotto, and, possibly Nilsson.

A package of Tanev, Sutter, and Baertschi could gain us a handsome return.

I could see Toronto looking at a package like this.

[TheGuardian_]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Except for Vegas, who would have known Tuch and Karlsson would blow up like that.  At the start Neal was their only proven producer upfront, and Fluery in net and a pile of 4-7 defenseman that have proven their value particularly Theodore and Schmidt.  But I agree 100%, aside from Horvat and Boeser our entire top nine is nothing special.

I have noticed on other expansion teams players that were pigeon holed to be a certain role on the donating team can excel with an expansion team that allows them to "bloom" in other than the designated role.

 

IMO Virtanen has been subjected to this type of designation as being a hitter and fore checker first, second and third with the idea that he use his speed to try to score as being an after thought. I have posted all along that they should try him out in a top 6 scoring role rather than a bottom six checking role. If he does end up being an offensive threat then how teams play against him will change and make his playing defence easier.

 

2 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

Benning said in a TDL interview that add ing another first rounder before the draft is something he'd be pursuing but, given our available assets, it's tough to see any possibilities.

Tanev is our biggest chip, but with his history of injuries and inability to play a full season, Tanev's value is limited.

Gudbranson is now locked up but; Is his payday too rich to garner interest?

Edler could be a good option if he were willing to waive, but it seems he's here until the end.

Most of our RFA's have yet to establish themselves as NHLers with the one possible exception being Baertschi who may be of interest to other teams.

Sutter is another interesting player that could be of interest to a contender in need of center depth. 

Benning is, rightfully, reluctant to discuss prospects as part of any dealings as we are trying to collect them and not shed them.

Eriksson anyone? Seriously; Anyone?

This makes my list of realistic pieces being Tanev, Sutter, Baertschi, Gagne, Del Zotto, and, possibly Nilsson.

A package of Tanev, Sutter, and Baertschi could gain us a handsome return.

I could see Toronto looking at a package like this.

The amount of any players contract could be subject to salary retention especially if that enhances the return in a trade.

 

1rst round picks, especially in the top 6 to 10 have so much more chance of becoming impact players that even packaging later round picks could be considered. Teams starting to rebuild might bite on trading one pick for 3 or 4 later picks, teams like LA, ANA, NYR, Montreal and Ottawa still have core pieces and will want to turn their teams around much faster than the slow way the Canucks are, at least in this "hope" fantasy land forum.  

[underrated]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:21 PM, TheGuardian_ said:

Edmonton - Tanev, Virtanen & 2nd for their 1rst and Puljujarvi

NYI - Boeser (back) for their two 1rst's this year

Montreal - Sven, Goldy, Granlund, Leipsic, OJ and next year's 4th pick.

Ottawa - take on Ryan's or Gabrik's contracts throw in Baesrtchi and Goldoblin, maybe add a 4th round pick for their first this year.

Arizona - Tanev & 2nd - their 1rst

Colorado - Tanev & ? for Ottawa's pick.

 

It is all for fun, although there could be some extreme outside possibility of something happening, some rely on the "hope" of the current prospects all being sure things, I "hope" the Canucks draft more players in the top 10, almost assuredly they would be an upgrade on most of the current roster. 

I think the Canucks are getting the better end of most of those deals.  The Boeser deal the NYI might go for, because he's young and more proven, but Tanev is injury prone, so he won't command a high first rounder.  The Montreal deal is clearly a quantity for quality trade which rarely happens. 

 

The Edmonton deal is a possibility, I could maybe see them going for that, depending on their projections of Virtanen and Puljujarvi.  Big risk to do this in division with young players through.

 

As mentioned by someone else, I think the Oilers and Islanders are the most likely teams to trade a first rounder.  For the Islanders, I think they'd want Tanev and Markstrom, as well as dumping Greiss' salary in exchange for a first (10-15 overall) and second round pick.  But if they were to really make a move for a goalie, using a first round pick, likely they'd trade for Holtby first.

[TheGuardian_]

Okay, now we know Buffalo has the #1 overall, so how do the Canucks lever that from them.

What does Buffalo need.

They could use this kid but their market is slipping, they have too many years outside looking in at the playoffs.

Their players are getting frustrated and losing confidence.

They need to speed up the maturation process and they have money issues, mainly not making any.

 

They need goaltending improvement.

They need defence help.

They need scoring help.

They need to make a "splash".

 

The Canucks would have to offer up a "name" player. While Tanev would help them and DiPeitro may as well, they are not so much in the "bling" department. So Horvat or Boeser comes to mind. Now the Nucks need to keep the centers and Buffalo has enough of those so Boeser is "bling".

 

OJ has now had 3 years of development and he is a first round pick so he might add some splash to a deal. 

 

Boeser, a big loss for the Canucks, but the back injury thing... add OJ, that is two first round picks, Boeser is a noted sniper and would fit with Eichel to help Buffalo compete head to head with TO.

OJ is a throw in as he has no real NHL experience but he is an unknown and of course, a first round pick.

Buffalo would probably like to get a 1rst round pick back as well, but the Nucks should try to keep theirs so that means either a later years first or trading for one.

Now moving Tanev might get that 1rst, maybe with a later round pick added or a prospect for TO's, some deal made.

Although Tanev and Virtanen might get Edmonton's 1rst, that gives Edmonton defensive stability  allowing Larsson to be more offensive and gives them a player that did/can actually outskate McDavid, hit hard and has a wicked if unproven wrist shot. Edmonton might consider Virtanen and some other help, maybe Dipeitro, OJ and Briebois or Gudbranson, Stecher combination that is cheap because hey are going to have cap issues in the next few years.

 

Either TO's or Edmonton's first and Boeser, OJ makes that deal look very good, ironic that TO trading their first for Tanev +,ends up helping Buffalo beat them if they get Boeser and he scores 40+ goals a season. 

[IBatch]

On 2018-04-22 at 11:08 AM, TheGuardian_ said:

First off this is fantasy stuff.

 

Second I have had back injuries and have had a similar type injury to Brock's, so as one poster suggested I should research it, been there, done that and I will tell you there are lingering effects that get worse, numbness in the arm or legs, tingling in the feet, sudden shooting pains and the occasional what I call "white pain", that's when for a split second the pain is so intense my vision goes white, but then it subsides just as quickly.

 

FYI, this isn't a constant issue, it comes and goes, but then I am no longer an athlete but when I was much more athletic and playing hockey the more stress the more issues. To this day the outside of my right leg is mostly numb.

 

Edler stated that after his back injury he knows he would be playing in pain the rest of his career.

 

I am hopeful that the next two years end the need to draft in the top ten.

Watching the playoffs this team needs to get bigger, the speed is there.

 

I have suggested Virtanen as a trade asset not because I don't like him, I don't think the team has let him play his game, I think they are still trying to put the square peg in the round hole, they should think of his size as an addition to his speed rather than the other way around, he is one of the fastest skaters on the team, he does have size which he uses and he has a wicked wrist shot. BUT if the team won't use him in a top six role then they should move him before he loses the "possibility" of being a top six player in the eyes of other teams. It is hard to ask for a top level asset if his own team isn't rating him as an top level player and that is where he is on this team.

 

As far as watching nothing games, most fans are so used to it now they see greatness in a 4 point improvement and a bunch of players that couldn't make the teams that drafted them after 3 or 4 years of trying. As is demonstrated by this team young does not mean good.

 

The teams I listed as possible trade partners for a first round pick all have some possible reason to accept. Especially Ottawa, Edmonton and NYI.

Weird that your back injury would affect your arm and your leg, that would mean you'd have disc impact in both your lower back by l4and l5, and that you'd have a separate injury by your neck as that's the only nerve route that affects the arms.

 

I've had four back surgeries, two upper for my shoulder, and two lower for my back and know all about the symptoms that you posted, not a lot of fun.  My understanding is Boeser had no disc issues or nerve problems, it's simply tissue damage.  Without surgery there shouldnt be any scar tissue or long lasting symptoms at all once he heals fully.

 

Its possible they aren't telling the truth, but even if they aren't and he has disc problems what they can do now is incredible.  It's nothing like the neck problems Gary Roberts dealt with, and he came out amazing considering it was career threatening.  Just as Eager who was spanked by a 41 year old Roberts near the tail end of his gritty, almost HHOF career.

 

Not worried about Boeser at all, they have the best care available, and I'm sure he will have learned something from it and come out blazing. 

 

I'd hate for Benning to flip him for picks as he's exactly what you hope to get out of your first rounders, and mathematically its foolish.   If Dahlin was the prize you would have to consider it, but I'm not sure if do it even then, Boeser could be the next Brett Hull, out of anyone that came before him that's who he reminds me of the most, accuracy and hard are not usually things that come naturally to NHLers, sure he's worked on his shot to make it what it is, the ALL-STAR game was awesome....so was his Calder worthy season. ...Boeser and Pettersson might become the next WCE or at least one of the better lines in hockey, don't mess with it.