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Father Ryan

(Proposal) A couple/three moves to consider

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Just looking at what a lot of people have been stating; that we need to fill a gap at center next year. Also, our D needs some work. Lastly, there is a great piece back there to help with this minor overhaul.

So...

Move 1 - UFA pickup; Ian Cole. Younger Dman, not necessarily reached his prime yet. He has size (6'1" 219lbs), and his last couple of years have seen a little growth offensively. He is not a big name. I'm thinking we could land him on a contract something like 4-5years, 3.5-4M yrly. That doesn't break the bank, and leaves him possibly moveable in the future.

 

Move 2 - Trade with the Rangers. In exchange for the RFA right to Baer, along with Hutton, we get the rights to RFA Kevin Hayes. Salary-wise, this moves Hutton's contract and Baer's potential contract (2.5-3M?) in exchange for signing Hayes for around 3.5-4M. Overall a slight reduction for us. The Rangers are deep at center, are already debating whether Hayes has a place on the team, in fact there is some talk there that sounds a whole lot like us talking about Baer, ie moving him to make room for youth. We have plenty of youth on the wing, not a whole lot at center. This would give us a center line up of: Horvat, Sutter, Hayes, Gaudette. No need to push Gaudette into the fray too quickly. Hayes is already a better scorer, and appears to be a better playmaker, than Sutter. He scored 25 goals last year, and that was with more D zone starts than not. He's also got some size to plug-and-play in front of the net on the PP. Lastly, he is not at his prime just yet, or is just hitting it now.

 

Move 3 - Tanev and Nilsson to the Islanders, in exchange for the #12 overall, and their 4th round pick (to replace the one that we don't have). Goalie depth for them is really thin; not that Nilsson can even spell Vezina, but in a limited role, he can be ok. His contract isn't great, but then it isn't horrendous either. Tanev would show Tavares that NYI means business, which I can't see them turning down in an effort to keep him around. That #12 pick for us could help us pick up maybe a 2nd higher potential Dman (Bode Wilde, maybe?).

 

This could leave us with:

Leipsig - Horvat - Boeser

Goldobin - Hayes - Gagner

Granlund/Gaunce - Sutter - Eriksson

Gaunce/Granlund - Gaudette - Virtanen

Archie

 

Stetch - Edler

Pouliott - Cole

MDZ - Gudbranson

Biega - Sautner

 

Markie

Demko

 

Our Swedish youth gets a year in Utica to adjust to both the smaller rink size, and the grind of a longer schedule, before playing here in the 19-20 season. As thin as both of them are, I can easily see an 82 game schedule wearing them down badly. Also gives Juolevi the same adjustment. Most of the rest of our youth is two years away (Lind, Gadjovich, et al), along with this year's draft; without any miracles, Bouchard/Dobson looks really good around the #7 spot, then Wilde at that #12. Now we finally have some depth (with skill!) on D.

 

I'm not great at this, so if the numbers aren't that good...well, there's a reason I'm a fan and not a GM!

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Posted (edited)

.

Edited by TNucks1

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Posted (edited)

... nvm

Edited by TNucks1

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Father Ryan said:

Just looking at what a lot of people have been stating; that we need to fill a gap at center next year. Also, our D needs some work. Lastly, there is a great piece back there to help with this minor overhaul.

So...

Move 1 - UFA pickup; Ian Cole. Younger Dman, not necessarily reached his prime yet. He has size (6'1" 219lbs), and his last couple of years have seen a little growth offensively. He is not a big name. I'm thinking we could land him on a contract something like 4-5years, 3.5-4M yrly. That doesn't break the bank, and leaves him possibly moveable in the future.

 

Move 2 - Trade with the Rangers. In exchange for the RFA right to Baer, along with Hutton, we get the rights to RFA Kevin Hayes. Salary-wise, this moves Hutton's contract and Baer's potential contract (2.5-3M?) in exchange for signing Hayes for around 3.5-4M. Overall a slight reduction for us. The Rangers are deep at center, are already debating whether Hayes has a place on the team, in fact there is some talk there that sounds a whole lot like us talking about Baer, ie moving him to make room for youth. We have plenty of youth on the wing, not a whole lot at center. This would give us a center line up of: Horvat, Sutter, Hayes, Gaudette. No need to push Gaudette into the fray too quickly. Hayes is already a better scorer, and appears to be a better playmaker, than Sutter. He scored 25 goals last year, and that was with more D zone starts than not. He's also got some size to plug-and-play in front of the net on the PP. Lastly, he is not at his prime just yet, or is just hitting it now.

 

Move 3 - Tanev and Nilsson to the Islanders, in exchange for the #12 overall, and their 4th round pick (to replace the one that we don't have). Goalie depth for them is really thin; not that Nilsson can even spell Vezina, but in a limited role, he can be ok. His contract isn't great, but then it isn't horrendous either. Tanev would show Tavares that NYI means business, which I can't see them turning down in an effort to keep him around. That #12 pick for us could help us pick up maybe a 2nd higher potential Dman (Bode Wilde, maybe?).

 

This could leave us with:

Leipsig - Horvat - Boeser

Goldobin - Hayes - Gagner

Granlund/Gaunce - Sutter - Eriksson

Gaunce/Granlund - Gaudette - Virtanen

Archie

 

Stetch - Edler

Pouliott - Cole

MDZ - Gudbranson

Biega - Sautner

 

Markie

Demko

 

Our Swedish youth gets a year in Utica to adjust to both the smaller rink size, and the grind of a longer schedule, before playing here in the 19-20 season. As thin as both of them are, I can easily see an 82 game schedule wearing them down badly. Also gives Juolevi the same adjustment. Most of the rest of our youth is two years away (Lind, Gadjovich, et al), along with this year's draft; without any miracles, Bouchard/Dobson looks really good around the #7 spot, then Wilde at that #12. Now we finally have some depth (with skill!) on D.

 

I'm not great at this, so if the numbers aren't that good...well, there's a reason I'm a fan and not a GM!

- Baertschi and Hutton may be better served going to Montreal for picks (1 2nd + 1 3rd), I think Hayes has greater value

- Tanev and Nilsson to the  NYI....ok, sounds good..................but I might add a little Tanev + Nisson + Granlund for the 12 OA + 3rd rounder

- I like Cole, see him as a big wall...............contract maybe 4.5  million for 3 years (no NTC)...........he is averaging about 40 games a year and about 9 points per

 

I like the moves! Needs Tweaking.

 

Cheers

Edited by janisahockeynut
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NYI trade is interesting. Is that the lower pick? I imagine that's the one they'd move before the better one. Especially for a package of a poor backup and a often injured D-man that plays roughly 17/18 minutes a game. They can probably get a better D-man for that same price, then get a better goalie than Nilsson in Free Agency. As it stands now, Nilsson struggled in a minimal role against what I would assume are bad teams.

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2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

- Baertschi and Hutton may be better served going to Montreal for picks (1 2nd + 1 3rd), I think Hayes has greater value

- Tanev and Nilsson to the  NYI....ok, sounds good..................but I might add a little Tanev + Nisson + Granlund for the 12 OA + 3rd rounder

- I like Cole, see him as a big wall...............contract maybe 4.5  million for 3 years (no NTC)...........he is averaging about 40 games a year and about 9 points per

 

I like the moves! Needs Tweaking.

 

Cheers

As always, constructive criticism vs flame throwing. Nice! As for Hayes, I was looking at some of the articles written that were showing him as trade bait for a late first or more likely early second. I would look at adding to the offer to grab him, he looks promising. And yes, I wondered if the NYI  offer was enough, and yes I could add Granlund. Cole...his last two years have been 20+ points, vs his overall avg. Money...the 4.5 might be a bit rich, considering what some of the higher end D had been getting, but ok I could see pushing that through.

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11 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

NYI trade is interesting. Is that the lower pick? I imagine that's the one they'd move before the better one. Especially for a package of a poor backup and a often injured D-man that plays roughly 17/18 minutes a game. They can probably get a better D-man for that same price, then get a better goalie than Nilsson in Free Agency. As it stands now, Nilsson struggled in a minimal role against what I would assume are bad teams.

Yes, that is the lower pick of their 2 firsts. Nilsson may have screwed the pooch here, but with a better D core, I believe he could perform adequately (and no better than) as a #2. Tanev is injured so bloody often because of his deployment, among other things. Lower his minutes a little, and he likely would end up playing 70+ games. Try adding Granlund to that offer (see above).

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Adding Cole and Hayes would be great.  Watched a lot of the Pens playoff games the past two years and Cole was a big reason they were able to keep it together without Letang (as was Shultz), he's all around not bad, can hit hard, good speed but he is a little prone to gaffs (he will fit right in ha ha).  At his age 4-5 million is right on par.  I think Green might be the better choice, he's played well for a terrible Detroit squad, and is more multi dimensional than some given him credit for.   But only for 3-4 years.  Cole would be fine too (or both).

 

Hayes would be the real prize though, I made a thread suggesting we try and get him over a year ago and was flamed.  He's big.  Big.  

6' 5" can kill penalties and gets around 45 points per full season and aside from this year has averaged about 17 goals a season.  This puts him firmly into our second line role for now, and later he can move down once LE and Sutter are done.     I'm surprised they aren't happy with him and aren't rushing to sign him.  

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Posted (edited)

NYR are rebuilding and and even asked Lundqvist if he wanted to be traded.  They are trying to move their vets to get more draft picks and prospects.  If he was to be traded it wouldn't be for 25/26 year olds but for prospects and draft picks.  Are they really trying to move him - it sounded like they wanted to keep the 26 and under (Zibanejad, Hayes, Kreider etc). 

 

Nilsson has a pretty poor record this season.  Carter Hutton is going to test free agency - sounds more like a target for NYI.

 

5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

- Baertschi and Hutton may be better served going to Montreal for picks (1 2nd + 1 3rd), I think Hayes has greater value

- Tanev and Nilsson to the  NYI....ok, sounds good..................but I might add a little Tanev + Nisson + Granlund for the 12 OA + 3rd rounder

- I like Cole, see him as a big wall...............contract maybe 4.5  million for 3 years (no NTC)...........he is averaging about 40 games a year and about 9 points per

 

I like the moves! Needs Tweaking.

 

Cheers

Montreal is overflowing with wingers.  Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Drouin, Pacioretty, Lehkonen, Byron, Scherbak, Hudon, Shaw are all top-9 wingers.  At C they have Danault, De La Rose, Froese and wingers forced to play C for lack of options.  They needs Cs and not more wingers.

 

They are going to be active in free agency and it's doubtful they want Hutton's cap hit because it limits their cap space.  He has been scratched multiple times and has only 6pts in 61 games.  Last year Bergevin made too many bets on D and none have panned out.  He can't do the same this year at risk of losing his job.


Their prospect pool is also very thin and they've just fired their AHL coach.  They've missed on so many picks and need to restock. 

 

Edited by mll

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I like the idea of signing Cole, and to do so we'd need to trade one of our existing D. My issue is:

 

- Edler simply won't be going

- Tanev is our only guy from 2011, and I like him too much to want to see him go

- Stech is worth his weight in gold

- MDZ won't attract any suitors

- Pouliot has too much upside to move on from

- Gudbranson was just re-signed

 

Which leaves us with Hutton and Biega, and I don't think either have value.

 

In an ideal world, I'd move Edler while he still has value, MDZ for literally anything, and Gudbranson for a pick. I'd then play Hutton with Tanev, Stech with Cole, and Pouliot with someone else dependable (Hamhuis? Sbisa? Hickey? K-Nauts?).

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Move 1: I don't know about Cole.  As a shutdown guy I think he is ok but he would simply be a Tanev replacement - bigger, but without the true elite shutdown abilities. I appreciate that we need another shutdown guy if we do move Tanev, but not sure this is the answer.  Aren't we trying to get younger and faster?

Move 2: I like Hayes and am fine with the value overall, but I just ask what the purpose is of acquiring him?  He's a center, so are you intending Bo to be the #1 and Hayes to be the #2 for the next few years?  Personally, I'm not certain that is enough scoring punch for our first line unless Horvat improves a fair amount more.

Move 3: Sure, why not.  Contingent on having a backup plan to at least somewhat replace Tanev's defensive prowess.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Father Ryan said:

As always, constructive criticism vs flame throwing. Nice! As for Hayes, I was looking at some of the articles written that were showing him as trade bait for a late first or more likely early second. I would look at adding to the offer to grab him, he looks promising. And yes, I wondered if the NYI  offer was enough, and yes I could add Granlund. Cole...his last two years have been 20+ points, vs his overall avg. Money...the 4.5 might be a bit rich, considering what some of the higher end D had been getting, but ok I could see pushing that through.

The only reason I suggest more of an over payment for Cole is to shorten his contract and get it without a NTC....seems the contracts that are given to his age are 50/50 with and without NTC.....so a small overpay..........

 

I always look at trades on here as liquid and only a starting point.........I thought your premises were a good starting point.......hope I didn't make you feel like I was hijacking your post...not my intent,

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2 hours ago, mll said:

NYR are rebuilding and and even asked Lundqvist if he wanted to be traded.  They are trying to move their vets to get more draft picks and prospects.  If he was to be traded it wouldn't be for 25/26 year olds but for prospects and draft picks.  Are they really trying to move him - it sounded like they wanted to keep the 26 and under (Zibanejad, Hayes, Kreider etc). 

 

Nilsson has a pretty poor record this season.  Carter Hutton is going to test free agency - sounds more like a target for NYI.

 

Montreal is overflowing with wingers.  Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Drouin, Pacioretty, Lehkonen, Byron, Scherbak, Hudon, Shaw are all top-9 wingers.  At C they have Danault, De La Rose, Froese and wingers forced to play C for lack of options.  They needs Cs and not more wingers.

 

They are going to be active in free agency and it's doubtful they want Hutton's cap hit because it limits their cap space.  He has been scratched multiple times and has only 6pts in 61 games.  Last year Bergevin made too many bets on D and none have panned out.  He can't do the same this year at risk of losing his job.


Their prospect pool is also very thin and they've just fired their AHL coach.  They've missed on so many picks and need to restock. 

 

Mll

 

I understand your point about wingers.

Don't know who Carter Hutton is ?????

Galchenyuk has been playing wing and center and is thought of more as a future center

 

Baertschi gives Offense and allows Montreal to move Galchenyuk back to center (30 goal season was at center)

Montreal's trouble is that they have Price, Weber, Pacioretty and Shaw to a lesser extent.....always made me wonder if they are in rebuild or retool?

I think retool

Ben Hutton is a reclamation project, and his value is a 3rd, because of his youth and potential 

I don't think all the listed centers are legit, as some are not NHLers

 

I think Montreal picks a center in the 1st and Dmen with their 2nds, so Hutton is a viable asset......

I think Montreal could go after a UFA  Dman, to help out Weber and Price, etc.

 

I am not against your points...just think Montreal is totally committed to a rebuild

 

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What do people think of Plekanec to fill that 2C hole for a year, maybe 2?  He's a UFA, 35, and coming off a 2 year $6M per salary.  

 

Would he sign for $3.5 - 4.0?

 

Spitballing

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Mll

 

I understand your point about wingers.

Don't know who Carter Hutton is ?????

Galchenyuk has been playing wing and center and is thought of more as a future center

 

Baertschi gives Offense and allows Montreal to move Galchenyuk back to center (30 goal season was at center)

Montreal's trouble is that they have Price, Weber, Pacioretty and Shaw to a lesser extent.....always made me wonder if they are in rebuild or retool?

I think retool

Ben Hutton is a reclamation project, and his value is a 3rd, because of his youth and potential 

I don't think all the listed centers are legit, as some are not NHLers

 

I think Montreal picks a center in the 1st and Dmen with their 2nds, so Hutton is a viable asset......

I think Montreal could go after a UFA  Dman, to help out Weber and Price, etc.

 

I am not against your points...just think Montreal is totally committed to a rebuild

 

 

Montreal does not see Galchenyuk as a C - they don't think he can play the position because there are added responsibilities as a C.  It's already a challenge to get him to play the way they want as a winger.   Bergevin said he has seen enough of Galchenyuk at C to know he is not a C.

 

They also say that ideally Drouin is playing wing and not C.  This comes from their different interviews - both Bergevin and Julien.  

 

Plekanec got traded, Drouin was forced at C and the 3 listed complete their top-5 of players who took the most draws this season.  They need Cs.  

 

Hutton is not a high end D that can play with Weber.  They already have Reilly and Mete who are younger and have more upside and their cap hit is significantly lower on LD.   Alzner, Schlemko and Benn are also under contract as LDs.   They want a high end left shot PMD to play with Weber.  Hutton is just another of the same which they already have.

 

They are looking for 2x top-6 Cs and a left shot PMD to play with Weber. 

 

Carter Hutton is the backup goalie for the Blues who played in 32 games this season and had a save percentage of .931% and a GAA of 2.09.

 

Edited by mll

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30 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Montreal does not see Galchenyuk as a C - they don't think he can play the position because there are added responsibilities as a C.  It's already a challenge to get him to play the way they want as a winger.   Bergevin said he has seen enough of Galchenyuk at C to know he is not a C.

 

They also say that ideally Drouin is playing wing and not C.  This comes from their different interviews - both Bergevin and Julien.  

 

 

 

I think it just could be their assessment of both the above players is incorrect? I know they aren't the only people in the organization that are advising on this but there is a chance that their approach is all wrong? I have zero insight as to why I think they could be centers but often times a change of scenery and approach from another organization may prove that the Montreal brass may be wrong with their assessment. This is where I think more teams ruin young players by confusing the crap out of them. The incessant need to always tinker so coaches and management are viewed as actively trying something overrides patience in waiting for development.

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2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

What do people think of Plekanec to fill that 2C hole for a year, maybe 2?  He's a UFA, 35, and coming off a 2 year $6M per salary.  

 

Would he sign for $3.5 - 4.0?

 

Spitballing

It was suggested when he was traded that there was already likely an agreement to bring him back to Montreal in the offseason.  He is still a viable centre (something Montreal is woefully lacking) plus he’s 2 games shy of 1000 regular season games in the NHL. If he has the choice, he’ll want to play those games in a Montreal uniform 

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5 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

What do people think of Plekanec to fill that 2C hole for a year, maybe 2?  He's a UFA, 35, and coming off a 2 year $6M per salary.  

 

Would he sign for $3.5 - 4.0?

 

Spitballing

The bolded and underlined age is the main problem with this guy. Yeah, we could probably get him on the cheap, but we have some financial room this year. I would rather see us go after someone who could help us into and through 4-5 years from now, not a hired gun. If this was the 2015-16 season, I'd be all for it...but not now.

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4 hours ago, Father Ryan said:

The bolded and underlined age is the main problem with this guy. Yeah, we could probably get him on the cheap, but we have some financial room this year. I would rather see us go after someone who could help us into and through 4-5 years from now, not a hired gun. If this was the 2015-16 season, I'd be all for it...but not now.

  1. He can play
  2. Because of his age, he may be able to be signed short term.  
  3. Money is not the issue.  Term is.
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12 hours ago, mll said:

NYR are rebuilding and and even asked Lundqvist if he wanted to be traded.  They are trying to move their vets to get more draft picks and prospects.  If he was to be traded it wouldn't be for 25/26 year olds but for prospects and draft picks.  Are they really trying to move him - it sounded like they wanted to keep the 26 and under (Zibanejad, Hayes, Kreider etc). 

Since I really don't know about the Montreal market, I'll answer this part. From what I see about the Rangers, Hayes is viewed as either: 1) a fairly important piece to build around (Blueshirt Banter) or 2) a valuable trade piece (Elite Sports NY). And even the Blueshirt piece discussed his trade value. He may be more valuable than just Baer and Hutton; it looks more like it would take both of them and maybe one of our better prospects. Given the ceiling that they are projecting, it might take adding Gadjovich or even Lind to the package. NYR appears to be deep at the center position, not so much elsewhere.

Since we are beginning to accumulate a pretty deep talent pool at wing, I could see parting with some younger and with potential depth, in order to acquire Hayes to fill in the gap at center.

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