Acording to Bob McKenzie ( Picks 5 through 8)

[Rob_Zepp]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

?? His international totals match up just fine against other top prospects, and he's already played a year in the NCAA with modest production for a rookie...plus it doesn't take a lot of research to find praise everywhere.  Scouts say things verbatim " He's a high end power forward " "against men he proved that older competition doesn't faze him " he's got all the tools, he's going to be a power forward in the NHL."

 

McAvoys numbers weren't over the top either at the same age, but he proved he could play against men at the same age in the same league and that worked out fine.

 

He didn't play the same route as his brother and stuck to the lower scoring American route, as we all know junior star productin doesn't always translate into NHL points.   What really got me this week was an article by Ken Campbell who although I don't always agree with on some of his controversial stances, I respect and look forward to what he says, he believes his skill set and ability to produce is under rated, and will only continue to improve, and that his WJC tournament he outplayed Mittelstadt who's considered a front runner with Pettersson for the Calder next year. 

And that he should be the second name picked which got my attention.  Really over Svecknikov?   Once he plays with guys with more skill ( he worked his way up the NCAA lineup, the same way Juolevi did this year which takes time) and gets his ice time, he should produce..

 

Ferraro is also hot on this guy, and so is his brother (but so was Subban with his so I don't take that as seriously)..THN has him at three although some want him at two.  

 

He could fall, as could Zadina if three defenseman are picked after Dahlin, which would put Benning in a bit of a pickle given four defenseman would be off the board...hope he is picked before us because we need a defensemen, but at the same time shouldn't pass up on such a complete player either.

 

So to answer your question it was Campbell's compelling article that got me thinking that BT in his prime will be a force, including in the offensive zone.

 

Per another response, I don't disagree with anything you say other than any implication he will be a high end scorer.  I see him indeed a very strong force and big part of whatever team takes him but I also see him topping out at a 40-50 point range and a tad under 20 goals.   There is nothing wrong with a physically dominant, defensively responsible guy who can make room for others who puts up numbers like that but expectations of high production is not compatible with his skill set and output to date in his development play.   

 

I think we are agreeing - I am just tempered on the offensive totals but there is far more to the game than goals/points and 22 players are needed to solve the puzzle of winning.

[Rob_Zepp]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

?? His international totals match up just fine against other top prospects, and he's already played a year in the NCAA with modest production for a rookie...plus it doesn't take a lot of research to find praise everywhere.  Scouts say things verbatim " He's a high end power forward " "against men he proved that older competition doesn't faze him " he's got all the tools, he's going to be a power forward in the NHL."

 

McAvoys numbers weren't over the top either at the same age, but he proved he could play against men at the same age in the same league and that worked out fine.

 

He didn't play the same route as his brother and stuck to the lower scoring American route, as we all know junior star productin doesn't always translate into NHL points.   What really got me this week was an article by Ken Campbell who although I don't always agree with on some of his controversial stances, I respect and look forward to what he says, he believes his skill set and ability to produce is under rated, and will only continue to improve, and that his WJC tournament he outplayed Mittelstadt who's considered a front runner with Pettersson for the Calder next year. 

And that he should be the second name picked which got my attention.  Really over Svecknikov?   Once he plays with guys with more skill ( he worked his way up the NCAA lineup, the same way Juolevi did this year which takes time) and gets his ice time, he should produce..

 

Ferraro is also hot on this guy, and so is his brother (but so was Subban with his so I don't take that as seriously)..THN has him at three although some want him at two.  

 

He could fall, as could Zadina if three defenseman are picked after Dahlin, which would put Benning in a bit of a pickle given four defenseman would be off the board...hope he is picked before us because we need a defensemen, but at the same time shouldn't pass up on such a complete player either.

 

So to answer your question it was Campbell's compelling article that got me thinking that BT in his prime will be a force, including in the offensive zone.

 

He deserves the praise - but you keep going to "point totals" but please address 8 goals in 40 games in NCAA as a rookie and compare to other NCAA rookies over the years and then take his 3 goals at WJC on a very strong US team (scoring wise) as the oldest draft eligible player at WJC and his 3 goals in 7 games does not stack up as that impressive.

 

Not saying the kid isn't very good and will be a force - just don't think he will be an offensive force.   You seem lock step agreement with Ken Campbell - no problem with that, Ken knows his stuff most of the time and he has always liked the bigger players.   He was one of the bigger supporters of Dal Colle being "class of the 2014 power forwards" too but so were a lot of others.   

 

Anyway, I really am not disagreeing with you at all.   Just tempering the offensive upside which I guess you disagree with.   No problem, all good.   

[aGENT]

11 hours ago, Baggins said:

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-top-prospects-no-2-olli-juolevi

 

Olli Juolevi is close to making an impact with the Vancouver Canucks. It may just not feel like it.

 

He has been one of the most polarizing top Canucks prospects in recent memory. Other defencemen in his draft class have already made it, and some in a big way. It has unfairly taken some of the shine off the 20-year-old who is still on track to being a top-pairing difference maker.

 

But one Finnish scout for an NHL team insisted “he won’t be a top player” in the world’s best league.

 

Former Vancouver Canucks defenceman Sami Salo sees it differently, however, and few have spent more time with the 20-year-old left-side blue-liner.

“I think he’s ready,” said Salo, who was an assistant with Juolevi’s Finnish team. “But this is what I said to him: ‘It’s another big jump to make an NHL team. There will be 10 other defencemen battling for those spots.’

 

“He has to go out there and show what he can do.”

 

The left side of the Canucks’ defence after Alex Edler isn’t exactly a Murderer’s Row. There’s Michael Del Zotto, Ben Hutton and Derrick Pouliot. It’s not crazy to think Juolevi can outplay these guys and earn a roster spot in the fall. To do it, though, Salo said Juolevi will need to focus on body language.

 

Wait, what?

 

“He has a tendency sometimes to look like he’s disinterested, even though he’s not,” Salo said. “Body language is very important in the NHL. You can’t have bad body language. He has to show he’s really into the games and wants to be out there.

 

“He got better this year as the season went on.”

 

That’s true for every part of his game. Juolevi saved the best part of the season for last. It was his play down the stretch and in the playoffs that left Salo so impressed.

“When the playoffs started, he was our best defenceman,” Salo said. “We lost (Henrik) Tallinder and it was good to see Olli carry the weight of Tallinder. He really picked up the Tallinder weight and was clearly our best defenceman.

 

“The only thing he didn’t really do was penalty kill. We had older guys in that role and it really worked out well for Olli. He focused on 5-on-5 play and the power play. He was a big part of our power play.”

 

Salo said Juolevi worked his way up to being the No. 1 point man on their power play.

 

“He doesn’t have the hardest shot, but he’s good at finding the open lane and getting the pucks through,” Salo said. “I was happy for him. He did have some struggles.”

Salo was referencing the stretch of games following the World Junior Championship. Juolevi skidded through a rough patch, which included multiple games when he was a healthy scratch for his Finnish club.

 

“It was good for him to get that adversity,” Salo said. “I think it gave him a push.

 

“It drove home the reality that this isn’t going to be easy in the pros. I think that’s what he had for most of his career. He had more skill and was a better skater coming up.”

Salo suggested Juolevi’s dip in play was in part because of the number of games he played for the country’s senior team in a couple of tournaments and his time with Turku.

“That’s why his physical conditioning has to get to another level this summer,” said Salo, stressing a point he has made when talking about Juolevi for a year now.

Does Juolevi understand what he needs to do in this area?

 

“He should,” Salo said. “I know his agent as well and we’ve been in contact and talked about this. To play 82 games in the NHL is tough. You have to be in tip-top shape because it’s so taxing.

 

“If you’re in average shape, or even what you would call good shape, it’s not going to be enough.”

 

Salo said Juolevi reminds him of Kimmo Timonen, a Finnish legend who played 16 years in the NHL.

 

“With the way he skates and sees the ice, I do see a little Timonen in him,” Salo said. “He’s in control in every situation, even if he’s under pressure. He’s just calm with the puck.

 

“He can compete with professionals. It wasn’t easy this year from the start. There was a lot of things he had to get used to.

 

“Once he focused on taking charge, it became a lot easier for him. He can make really good plays under pressure. He can make plays a lot of defencemen can’t make.”

 

Yup, clearly a bust 

[IBatch]

29 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He deserves the praise - but you keep going to "point totals" but please address 8 goals in 40 games in NCAA as a rookie and compare to other NCAA rookies over the years and then take his 3 goals at WJC on a very strong US team (scoring wise) as the oldest draft eligible player at WJC and his 3 goals in 7 games does not stack up as that impressive.

 

Not saying the kid isn't very good and will be a force - just don't think he will be an offensive force.   You seem lock step agreement with Ken Campbell - no problem with that, Ken knows his stuff most of the time and he has always liked the bigger players.   He was one of the bigger supporters of Dal Colle being "class of the 2014 power forwards" too but so were a lot of others.   

 

Anyway, I really am not disagreeing with you at all.   Just tempering the offensive upside which I guess you disagree with.   No problem, all good.   

I absolutely see where your coming from, it's part of the reason there are so many differing opinions on him and where he should go.  Before this week I was thinking he probably should be picked around where we were at, not at the top of the draft and without a doubt his offense doesn't seem nearly as impressive as his brothers, especially after his GPG epic playoff before being drafted.   But now I think he'd be an incredible addition to any team and in his prime will be a star but multi dimensional.   Part of his upside is he can play right away, although I've also read he would be better off developing one more year.   His floor is really high, at worst a very good third liner, his ceiling is just as high which makes him one of the safest picks in the draft.   You could be bang on with his offense at say 15 goals, but that's probably his floor.  Or he could be like his Dad, or he could be like Brett Lindros.

 

As for the juniors, remember not many eighteen year olds are the teams best players...and his point totals might not be great but neither were McDavids...

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

I absolutely see where your coming from, it's part of the reason there are so many differing opinions on him and where he should go.  Before this week I was thinking he probably should be picked around where we were at, not at the top of the draft and without a doubt his offense doesn't seem nearly as impressive as his brothers, especially after his GPG epic playoff before being drafted.   But now I think he'd be an incredible addition to any team and in his prime will be a star but multi dimensional.   Part of his upside is he can play right away, although I've also read he would be better off developing one more year.   His floor is really high, at worst a very good third liner, his ceiling is just as high which makes him one of the safest picks in the draft.   You could be bang on with his offense at say 15 goals, but that's probably his floor.  Or he could be like his Dad, or he could be like Brett Lindros.

I actually see him having a development curve like Virtanen but Jake has more speed and BT likely more net presence.   Both are the type of player you want in your top six when they hit mid-20s and you are on a playoff run.   

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I actually see him having a development curve like Virtanen but Jake has more speed and BT likely more net presence.   Both are the type of player you want in your top six when they hit mid-20s and you are on a playoff run.   

Depending on who drafts them and how thin they are in their top six (Vancouver for example) could impact whether he earns a spot at camp this summer or whether he's developed another year.  I've read some scouts would advise he gets one more year, other that he's as close to NHL ready as anyone in his draft.  Horvat earned a spot because he was good on face offs,  BT could earn a checking role and go from there...

 

Wouldn't that be nice to have both JV, Horvat and BT in our top six eventually...hard to play against.

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Depending on who drafts them and how thin they are in their top six (Vancouver for example) could impact whether he earns a spot at camp this summer or whether he's developed another year.  I've read some scouts would advise he gets one more year, other that he's as close to NHL ready as anyone in his draft.  Horvat earned a spot because he was good on face offs,  BT could earn a checking role and go from there...

 

Wouldn't that be nice to have both JV, Horvat and BT in our top six eventually...hard to play against.

Actually, that would likely be one of the harder lines in the entire league to play against.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Depending on who drafts them and how thin they are in their top six (Vancouver for example) could impact whether he earns a spot at camp this summer or whether he's developed another year.  I've read some scouts would advise he gets one more year, other that he's as close to NHL ready as anyone in his draft.  Horvat earned a spot because he was good on face offs,  BT could earn a checking role and go from there...

 

Wouldn't that be nice to have both JV, Horvat and BT in our top six eventually...hard to play against.

Those three are heavy, straight line players.  They would create a lot of open ice for Pettersson and Dahlen.

[oldnews]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Depending on who drafts them and how thin they are in their top six (Vancouver for example) could impact whether he earns a spot at camp this summer or whether he's developed another year.  I've read some scouts would advise he gets one more year, other that he's as close to NHL ready as anyone in his draft.  Horvat earned a spot because he was good on face offs,  BT could earn a checking role and go from there...

 

Wouldn't that be nice to have both JV, Horvat and BT in our top six eventually...hard to play against.

that looks like a very good organizational fit.

and you still have a Pettersson et al line - that's the makings of one helluva top 6.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

that looks like a very good organizational fit.

and you still have a Pettersson et al line - that's the makings of one helluva top 6.

Sure does, Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Dahlen, BT and JV in their prime could have the potential to be lights out.   TB has Point, Palat and Johnson running when the top line is not because you can't defend against two great lines (and Point is a first line player on almost every other team in the league)...even Boston couldn't handle them and now WSH is having the same trouble, it's really, really hard to match lines when you have two quality scoring lines or one quality and one great two-way line.  PIT won three cups this way.

It was always a problem for us in the WCE years when Crawford's system was to outscore the opponent with no second line or little secondary scoring..

 

If Benning picks Whalstrom it's starting to become abundantly clear that he's aiming this way, which would be just fine despite our defensive issues, which potentially could be partially solved via free agency over the next couple years while these guys get better.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

12 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Sure does, Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Dahlen, BT and JV in their prime could have the potential to be lights out.   

This is precisely what I'm hoping for.

[Pete M]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Agreed.  But it's possible someone could slip out of the top five, with the combine or and more importantly the interview process ahead yet things could shake out.  B McKenzie states the top five each are better than the other, with a definitive line of skill and ability above their peers below, with 6,7,8 interchangeable (unlike some posters view that all but Dahlin are interchangeable, Svecknikov, Zadina, BT and Bouchard are not), THN has been high on BT since before the WJC, listing him at 3 but then devoting a recent article that at least one of their staff believes (Ken Campbell) he should be going second and is basically warning any team that passes on him, well shouldn't be...

 

So yes, we aren't getting BT, but if for some reason he is still available, we'd be nuts to let him go too.

Definitely would take BT if he is available, if the top dmen are not...Wahlstrom and the finnish centreman would also be interesting picks.

No matter what, there are a few routes that the Canucks can take with fixing the "D" and they should not be so focuses on the position if a stud forward is still available.

 

I understand the mix reviews with BT, but he is too good to drop to #7.

 

If he drops to #7, then I might have to buy Zepp a "Funky Cold Medina...for him to get "Fly".

 

 

 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Sure does, Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Dahlen, BT and JV in their prime could have the potential to be lights out.   TB has Point, Palat and Johnson running when the top line is not because you can't defend against two great lines (and Point is a first line player on almost every other team in the league)...even Boston couldn't handle them and now WSH is having the same trouble, it's really, really hard to match lines when you have two quality scoring lines or one quality and one great two-way line.  PIT won three cups this way.

It was always a problem for us in the WCE years when Crawford's system was to outscore the opponent with no second line or little secondary scoring..

 

If Benning picks Whalstrom it's starting to become abundantly clear that he's aiming this way, which would be just fine despite our defensive issues, which potentially could be partially solved via free agency over the next couple years while these guys get better.

I'm not sure teams can compete without a couple great lines.   Boston was too heavily weighted/dependent upon their top line, and just couldn't compete.

Some factors  - like the end of the traditional 'fourth' line, increasing depth of talent at the international level - have lead to some teams having three scoring lines, or two shutdown/matchup lines - and imo it makes for faster, more entertaining, better hockey.

That said, I like the teams' depth of young forward talent - to the point they may be able to build either way / or both ways - three talented lines / two strong matchup two-way lines....

 

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

JV, Horvat and BT

I know you said top 6, but everyone seems excited by this as a line?

 

It would potentially leave;

 

Dahlen Pettersson Boeser as a top scoring line, drools

Gaunce Sutter Ericsson

Gadjovich Gaudette Lind as a do it all line

[Canuck Surfer]

Nah!

 

I still want Boqvist or Hughes! 

[Ghostsof1915]

Dobson is tied 3rd overall in scoring and 7 points in the Memorial Cup. That's the kind of player we need, who rises to the occasion when the pressure is on. 

 

CDC would probably go nuts because he weighs 178 lbs. But he's 6'3" and shoots right. 

 

Only other problem is Dobson wears #53. 

[vanforever]

I am fully on the Wahlstrom train.  we have a ton of cap space to sign a proven D and can take one in the second round in my opinion.  If Wahlstrom doesnt fall to us and we are picking a defenseman - Dobson.  Guy is a gamer.  (and by that i dont mean VIDEO gamer)

 

Cheers!

 

[Ghostsof1915]

 

I'd rather have 2 defencemen in the pipeline with our 1st and 2nd round picks. 

[higgyfan]

On 15/05/2018 at 2:51 PM, NUCKER67 said:

I dunno, I was pretty shocked to see Chia trade Hall for Larsson. Never know what he'll do. It's also expensive to move up 3 spots in the Top 10. They can stay at #10 too. I don't mind.

Tanev for Drais.  Get 'er done Jimmy!

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Tanev for Drais.  Get 'er done Jimmy!

More seriously, how about: Tanev + Sutter for Draisatl?