Alflives Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: I would like to ask a question in the form of a proposal, as I am not sure what the ceilings are of the players I will mention, only that they have been talked about as good prospects........so please spare me the pain! I would like input.........one word responses are not information...........in most cases So is Tanev + 7 OA for Sanheim, Myers + 14 OA a Fair Trade? What are their ceilings/floors 4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: I would like to ask a question in the form of a proposal, as I am not sure what the ceilings are of the players I will mention, only that they have been talked about as good prospects........so please spare me the pain! I would like input.........one word responses are not information...........in most cases So is Tanev + 7 OA for Sanheim, Myers + 14 OA a Fair Trade? What are their ceilings/floors No way. (Two words) okay the player we get at 7 will likely be the best one of the guys you mention. I’d rather have that one guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 I think Tanev and a 4th to Philly for the 14th OA is reasonable. Sutter for Sanheim. Then help Montreal with their scoring Baertschi for Montreal's 2nd 35th and a 4th Hutton to Buffalo for a 3rd Next sign Stastny Next sign Kane Kane Bo Boeser Virtanen Stastny goldobin Dahlen Gaudette Eriksson Gaunce Motte Leipsic Gagner Petersson Edler Gudbranson Mdz Stecher Sanheim Pouliot Juolevi Biega Markstrom Demko We would have 7th OA 14th OA 35th 37th 63rd 68th 97th Our 5th, 6th, 7th Kane and Stastny and Sanheim salaries easily made up by Tanev, Baertschi, Sutter, Hutton salaries going out. We still have lots of cap room and lots of flexibility. I know it's a lot but this is what I would try to do if I were JB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 6 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: I would like to ask a question in the form of a proposal, as I am not sure what the ceilings are of the players I will mention, only that they have been talked about as good prospects........so please spare me the pain! I would like input.........one word responses are not information...........in most cases So is Tanev + 7 OA for Sanheim, Myers + 14 OA a Fair Trade? What are their ceilings/floors It's not only injuries that hurts Tanev's trade value but also that he is a UFA in 2 seasons and can only sign an extension on 1 July in a year. A team like Philadelphia who is currently rebuilding and transitioning to more youth are unlikely to give up key future assets for only 2 seasons of Tanev - they'll be trying to patch those holes in 2 years time and it just becomes an endless circle. Hextall doesn't seem interested in those kind of trades because he's not thinking short term but much longer term. The challenge is finding players who have similar term to the players they are giving up so that it doesn't hurt their structure going forward. He again repeated his commitment to building from within and that he's not going to deviate from the plan because that would just set them back. Both him and Haskoll talk of their young players earning bigger roles because that's how they'll become legit contenders again. Philadelphia wants to upgrade on some of their non-core veterans - Weise, Weal, etc. There are lateral trade to be made there. On D they might look to add but Hextall left open that improvement could simply just come by promoting Morin and/or Myers - he says if they have to go young on D so be it. Btw they apparently are trying to use 14th and 19th to get into the top-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 8 hours ago, mll said: It's not only injuries that hurts Tanev's trade value but also that he is a UFA in 2 seasons and can only sign an extension on 1 July in a year. A team like Philadelphia who is currently rebuilding and transitioning to more youth are unlikely to give up key future assets for only 2 seasons of Tanev - they'll be trying to patch those holes in 2 years time and it just becomes an endless circle. Hextall doesn't seem interested in those kind of trades because he's not thinking short term but much longer term. The challenge is finding players who have similar term to the players they are giving up so that it doesn't hurt their structure going forward. He again repeated his commitment to building from within and that he's not going to deviate from the plan because that would just set them back. Both him and Haskoll talk of their young players earning bigger roles because that's how they'll become legit contenders again. Philadelphia wants to upgrade on some of their non-core veterans - Weise, Weal, etc. There are lateral trade to be made there. On D they might look to add but Hextall left open that improvement could simply just come by promoting Morin and/or Myers - he says if they have to go young on D so be it. Btw they apparently are trying to use 14th and 19th to get into the top-10. Thank you for your well thought out explanation I appreciate the time it took. I wonder how he deals with his starters that are older (Simmonds(29), Giroux(30), and Voracek(28), if he does at all If I was Hextall, I would be looking to add a quality veteran Dman and a veteran Goalie to my mix, to see it I could get into the playoffs, while my youth is maturing, as I think there is a benefit to experiencing the intensity of the playoffs.............. Imo, Phili is in a vey good position to use some of their youth, to move into that position, while not stripping their youth completely.....Hextall may have a different opinion, but he has the following pieces in place, at this moment At center...........Couturier (25), Patrick (19), Konecny (21) and Frost (18) And defencemen.........Ghost(25), Hagg (23), Morin (22), Sanheim (22), Myers (21), Provorov (21) And in Goal..........Hart (19) And picks..............2018 14 OA, 2018 19th OA, 2018 2nd To me, it also appears that we would be a good trading partner in that we have an abundance of young LWers Baertschi (25), Gaunce (24), Leipsic (23), Motte (23), Goldobin (22), Dahlen (20), Gadjovich (19), and Pettersson (19)? .......that is a lot of LWers I do not see why Phili and Vancouver would not be good trading partners, in some way, as I do not see Phili having the Cap, especially if they re-sign Simmonds, to go hard at UFA's............so with Tanev's elite defensive prowess, the Canucks abundance of LWers, and 20+Million in cap space......I just wonder how we are not a good trading partner __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ So maybe there is a trade around the above, but it has to be fare Tanev, Goldobin, 7th OA for Ghost, Sanheim, 2018 14 OA and a 2018 2nd ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Here why I think Vancouver should consider this..............our 7th will give us a Defenseman who should be a #1 or # 2 if he reaches his ceiling, if he doesn't he is a #3 or #4 Both Scenario's are matched by Sanheim's potential, Tanev is the defensive equivalent of Ghost, and Goldobin gives them a LWer to fit into their young core Phili does this because, even after moving Ghost and Sanheim they have a strong defensive prospect roster, and Tanev meets their present needs at a controlled cost, while the 7th, gives them the ability to take a young forward that should be a #1 or #2 LW/RW (who will replace Simmonds if he leaves) , and something Vancouver can acquire in a later draft. If Phili gets either Tkachuk or Wahlstrom, they will be over the moon and worth making the trade regardless of what they give up, using their 19th to continue with adding additional pieces, will ease Hextall's mind....this works for Hextall in the present and in the future................ Looking forward, Hextall sees a boat load of veterans he can off load in future TDL's that will continue to fill in the remaining pieces needed ...............of picks, prospects and young NHL ready players, while being competitive today. There is pain for both teams, but both teams benefit Vancouver takes a forward with their 14 OA (unless Boqvist or Smith drops) and take 2 defenceman in the 2nd round (again unless there is a faller) In the end Vancouver is in a different place than Phili and, can afford to make this move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 14 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: I think Tanev and a 4th to Philly for the 14th OA is reasonable. Sutter for Sanheim. Then help Montreal with their scoring Baertschi for Montreal's 2nd 35th and a 4th Hutton to Buffalo for a 3rd Next sign Stastny Next sign Kane Kane Bo Boeser Virtanen Stastny goldobin Dahlen Gaudette Eriksson Gaunce Motte Leipsic Gagner Petersson Edler Gudbranson Mdz Stecher Sanheim Pouliot Juolevi Biega Markstrom Demko We would have 7th OA 14th OA 35th 37th 63rd 68th 97th Our 5th, 6th, 7th Kane and Stastny and Sanheim salaries easily made up by Tanev, Baertschi, Sutter, Hutton salaries going out. We still have lots of cap room and lots of flexibility. I know it's a lot but this is what I would try to do if I were JB. I don’t see Montreal having any interest in Baertschi. He certainly won’t displace Pacioretty or Galchenyuk in the top 6. And I’d argue Byron is a more complete player (he’s vital to their PK) and has put up consecutive 20 goal seasons. They have a glut of other young guys that can play LW. He doesn’t bring enough offence to really be worth a 2nd to them. They have other far bigger holes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 1 hour ago, qwijibo said: I don’t see Montreal having any interest in Baertschi. He certainly won’t displace Pacioretty or Galchenyuk in the top 6. And I’d argue Byron is a more complete player (he’s vital to their PK) and has put up consecutive 29 goal seasons. They have a glut of other young guys that can play LW. He doesn’t bring enough offence to really be worth a 2nd to them. They have other far bigger holes It seems to me that Montreal needs goals more than anything. I don't knowif they would be interested in him, but Baertschi had roughly the same ppg as Pacioretty and Parise this year. He is in the top 40 left wingers for ppg. He could help them. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe they would prefer Goldobin to play with his old freind Galchenyuk? I am just trying to show how we can clean up a bit, get more picks and still have cap space. This is a good place to be. I hope we do some things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said: It seems to me that Montreal needs goals more than anything. I don't knowif they would be interested in him, but Baertschi had roughly the same ppg as Pacioretty and Parise this year. He is in the top 40 left wingers for ppg. He could help them. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe they would prefer Goldobin to play with his old freind Galchenyuk? I am just trying to show how we can clean up a bit, get more picks and still have cap space. This is a good place to be. I hope we do some things like this. Pacioretty had a bad year. Previous to that He consistently put up 30 goals + every season since the lockout. As their lineup stands Baertschi wouldn’t displace their top 3 LW. He’s also never put up more than 18 goals (35 points) . So it’s not like we’re talking about a prolific goal scorer here. He’s undersized and appears to be injury prone. It’s not like he doesn’t have value. But Montreal has at least 3 guys that could fill the same role as him. They need top 6 C’s and a young puck moving LHD. Things that Vancouver are in no position to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 18 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Thank you for your well thought out explanation I appreciate the time it took. I wonder how he deals with his starters that are older (Simmonds(29), Giroux(30), and Voracek(28), if he does at all If I was Hextall, I would be looking to add a quality veteran Dman and a veteran Goalie to my mix, to see it I could get into the playoffs, while my youth is maturing, as I think there is a benefit to experiencing the intensity of the playoffs.............. Imo, Phili is in a vey good position to use some of their youth, to move into that position, while not stripping their youth completely.....Hextall may have a different opinion, but he has the following pieces in place, at this moment At center...........Couturier (25), Patrick (19), Konecny (21) and Frost (18) And defencemen.........Ghost(25), Hagg (23), Morin (22), Sanheim (22), Myers (21), Provorov (21) And in Goal..........Hart (19) And picks..............2018 14 OA, 2018 19th OA, 2018 2nd To me, it also appears that we would be a good trading partner in that we have an abundance of young LWers Baertschi (25), Gaunce (24), Leipsic (23), Motte (23), Goldobin (22), Dahlen (20), Gadjovich (19), and Pettersson (19)? .......that is a lot of LWers I do not see why Phili and Vancouver would not be good trading partners, in some way, as I do not see Phili having the Cap, especially if they re-sign Simmonds, to go hard at UFA's............so with Tanev's elite defensive prowess, the Canucks abundance of LWers, and 20+Million in cap space......I just wonder how we are not a good trading partner __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ So maybe there is a trade around the above, but it has to be fare Tanev, Goldobin, 7th OA for Ghost, Sanheim, 2018 14 OA and a 2018 2nd ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Here why I think Vancouver should consider this..............our 7th will give us a Defenseman who should be a #1 or # 2 if he reaches his ceiling, if he doesn't he is a #3 or #4 Both Scenario's are matched by Sanheim's potential, Tanev is the defensive equivalent of Ghost, and Goldobin gives them a LWer to fit into their young core Phili does this because, even after moving Ghost and Sanheim they have a strong defensive prospect roster, and Tanev meets their present needs at a controlled cost, while the 7th, gives them the ability to take a young forward that should be a #1 or #2 LW/RW (who will replace Simmonds if he leaves) , and something Vancouver can acquire in a later draft. If Phili gets either Tkachuk or Wahlstrom, they will be over the moon and worth making the trade regardless of what they give up, using their 19th to continue with adding additional pieces, will ease Hextall's mind....this works for Hextall in the present and in the future................ Looking forward, Hextall sees a boat load of veterans he can off load in future TDL's that will continue to fill in the remaining pieces needed ...............of picks, prospects and young NHL ready players, while being competitive today. There is pain for both teams, but both teams benefit Vancouver takes a forward with their 14 OA (unless Boqvist or Smith drops) and take 2 defenceman in the 2nd round (again unless there is a faller) In the end Vancouver is in a different place than Phili and, can afford to make this move If you want to make a lateral trade for Weal, Weise etc - Hextall is more than open to the idea but trading players he has identified as core is not going to happen. They are trying to limit those non core veterans to increase the opportunities for their young players (if they earn it). He re-iterated that they are not going to change their gradual building approach. He made it very clear that he is not going to make a decision for a short-tem fix that hurts their long-term future. Tanev is a short-term fix. They talk of Sanheim getting more opportunity to continue to grow his game. Hextall says that if they have to go young on D next year so be it. He talks of Morin and even Myers earning a spot. Gostisbehere had 65pts last year including 13 goals. Tanev had 11pts in 52 games. Gostibehere and Provorov are considered core players and trading either of them is counter-productive. Konecny is a winger - he has only taken 26 face-offs in 151 NHL games. They are trying to upgrade their C3 position for next season (Filppula is plan B) now that Giroux has been moved to wing and Couturier is their C1 and Patrick their C2 and their C prospects aren't quite ready yet. Philadelphia has a lot of cap space this year - the most they've ever had since summer 2007 and only 2 roster RFAs to sign. They have to be mindful of next year though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 To Philly Tanev 37th pick To Vancouver Morin (big, young, tough but struggling to crack Philly's lineup. Give him a bottom pairing role with Stecher to see if he can adjust to the NHL, should be ready to step-in). 19th pick (a lot of good dmen available - Miller, McIsaac, Smith, Merkley) 50th pick (best forward available) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 5 hours ago, mll said: If you want to make a lateral trade for Weal, Weise etc - Hextall is more than open to the idea but trading players he has identified as core is not going to happen. They are trying to limit those non core veterans to increase the opportunities for their young players (if they earn it). He re-iterated that they are not going to change their gradual building approach. He made it very clear that he is not going to make a decision for a short-tem fix that hurts their long-term future. Tanev is a short-term fix. They talk of Sanheim getting more opportunity to continue to grow his game. Hextall says that if they have to go young on D next year so be it. He talks of Morin and even Myers earning a spot. Gostisbehere had 65pts last year including 13 goals. Tanev had 11pts in 52 games. Gostibehere and Provorov are considered core players and trading either of them is counter-productive. Konecny is a winger - he has only taken 26 face-offs in 151 NHL games. They are trying to upgrade their C3 position for next season (Filppula is plan B) now that Giroux has been moved to wing and Couturier is their C1 and Patrick their C2 and their C prospects aren't quite ready yet. Philadelphia has a lot of cap space this year - the most they've ever had since summer 2007 and only 2 roster RFAs to sign. They have to be mindful of next year though. Can't argue....good POV I guess, you have to wonder if Hextall is posturing or if he is really believes he will not move young players.....does he just let his very good veterans just rot, to move later, or to let them take a run at the cup? Hextall has a lot of defensive prospects, does he keep them all? I think he has a problem later down the road, when all come off their ELC;s and will be moving some of them anyways. Tanev has a good 5 or 6 years in this league, and they will be good, high end defensive years, because it is his IQ that allows him to play defense so well. The question to me is again, is he going to just waste his veterans or is he going to supplement and take part in the playoffs or go the Oiler route, always in rebuild? Tanev is good for them, if they choose to compete. Not so much, if he is going to wait longer. to get his forwards and have them take the 2/4 years to develop......it is a choice! It is his for sure! As for the 7th OA...........it is a good pick and under-rated, much, much better than a 14th or 19th OA, as we can attest to, if we think back. I will admit, that Hextall sees himself as a good Drafter, and will probably take that risk, and use his own picks at the draft. But historically, the #7 gives you a great #1/#2 player, something you don't always get when drafting later. I do agree that Ghost is too much of a reach, and Hextall will stay with his young dmen, but Ghosts offense is = to Tanev's defense, and visa versa............age being the greatest deciding factor against moving them for each other. (I was driving my car and was thinking someone would call me on putting Ghost in there) Still. I do believe Vancouver and Phili are good trading partners, even if Hextall says he isn't going to move anyone. (pretty much every GM, except Benning doesn't say they will hold on to their prospects, as it pretty much a no brainer he does that, until an offer comes in he can't refuse) It will be interesting to see how Hextall's plan works out....I would imagine when it matures, it is a top 12...........he still has a ways to go if he is just going to draft to fill in his roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 On 2018-05-04 at 12:42 AM, Pepe Silvia said: Watching the Flyers these playoffs, it's pretty clear they need defence. Tanev could be the perfect for their disastrous core. Philadelphia has some nice pieces, whether they're willing to part ways with them to solve their defensive problems is another thing. Morgan Frost is interesting. Centre, who came 2nd in OHL scoring last year. Some are penciling him in the 3C next year. Travis Sanheim has made strides this year, but if Philly is in a win now mode with Giroux peaking at his prime, swapping Tanev for Sanheim could make sense. The Flyers also hold the 14th OA pick this year, which could potentially see a player like Veleno, Farabee or Kotkaniemi fall to. We would have to take back salary in any sort of deal (MacDonald). We have the cap space so it shouldn't be an issue. What is fair value for any of these pieces? @Rob_Zepp Had a thread on acquiring Sanheim a couple months ago. I'm all for it personally. Tanev + MDZ for Sanheim, 14th OA and MacDonald +/- would be my suggestion. Might even be able to get a bit more back taking on MacDonald's contract. And he gives us a veteran, warm body to play 3rd pair, right side for the next couple years until kids arrive. Tanev is a similar style player but MASSIVE upgrade on MacDonald. MDZ has a history playing there and would give them some solid depth, veteran replacement on the left and while Morin recovers (again). https://section215.com/2018/06/13/philadelphia-flyers-samuel-morin-assembling-defense-after-injury/ Quote Morin ended up watching most of the western road trip from the press box (via John Boruk of NBC Sports Philadelphia) while Hakstol elected to use Brandon Manning. When Shayne Gostisbhere returned from injury, Ron Hextall made it clear that one of the eight defensemen they were carrying would be returning to Lehigh Valley. After all, it would make little sense to leave young players like Morin and Travis Sanheim in the press box where they cannot gain valuable playing time. Quote The injury to Morin’s knee is concerning for multiple reasons. For one, there is great uncertainty regarding his role with the Flyers heading into next season. The injury to his ACL will sideline him until at least February 2019, and that’s only if his rehab goes perfectly. This puts the team in a precarious situation, due to the fact that Morin is no longer waiver exempt. This means he cannot be sent to Lehigh Valley without first clearing waivers. This would be a risky move for Hextall, as a team would most certainly take a flier on Morin as a waiver claim. Hiding him in the minors while he recovers is probably not an option. Another reason is that the Flyers will now need to replace him on the roster. Due to his waiver-exempt status, it was almost a certainty that Morin would be with the Flyers next season. He will now be placed on long-term injury reserve which will help with the salary cap hit and free up a roster spot. Before Morin’s injury, the depth chart for the defense going into next season resembled something like this: First pair: Ivan Provorv, Shayne Gostisbhere Second pair: Travis Sanheim, Radko Gudas Third pair: Robert Hagg, Andrew MacDonald Seventh: Samuel Morin Outside shots: Phil Myers, Mark Friedman The hope was that Morin would crack the top six and push out a veteran like MacDonald or Gudas. Perhaps Hextall would even feel comfortable enough to trade away one of the two, if possible. Now, if they can upgrade to something like: Provorov, Gost Hagg, Tanev MDZ, Gudas...that's a heck of a lot more formidable D IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo0921 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 On 2018-05-04 at 2:58 AM, IBatch said: I like PHI as a trading partner too, given they have some excellent young players including some of the better defenseman entering the league the past few years which we really need, but so far don't have. They are lucky to have Patrick instead of " fill in the blank" which as someone else just suggested means they also have good depth at C. We could also use that but really need a defensemen back if we trade Tanev, Sanheim would be the prize....you never do know so nothing wrong with asking, maybe they are serious about winning now, it makes sense given Giroux had found his groove back with Coutereir as a line mate. Sure PIT handled them but they did prove they can score goals, and they keeping them out of the net was there main issue.... something Tanev happens to be very good at. I like it, it makes some sense for PHI too. They still have Provorov and Ghost... I don't see them being a good trade partner. Hextall said he won't trade any futures to fill current needs. See them more active in the free agent market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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